Christmas tree -- vestige from Babylonian worship

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ZNP

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Why then are you so bizarre in your contrasting of things?

I never have told my children the lie of Santa but told them we give and receive gifts bc the wise men gave gifts to Jesus. Although when they found him he was a toddler of about 2 and not a babe in a manger!
I have not said one thing about what Gardenias has told his/her children. People need to take a deep breath and perhaps they will see that what I am talking about is something they have never considered.

However the decorations,the happy spirit of, the looking back over the old year and forward to a new one DOES NOT make christians apostates,Nazis, reprobates or take them in any way ,away from God.
I have never said any of those did. Once again, this is not a sober account of what I have said. It might be an accurate understanding of what others have accused me of saying, but then they have gone ballistic as though I were attacking their God even though they tell me I haven't attacked their God.

This holiday at the closing of a year in a life and looking forward toward a new beginnitng isn't bad nor sinful.

Furthermore,I don't think anything new or profound has been revealed by this thread. Instead I would say it's made us all a little GRINCHY!
I agree that 90% of the posts are on a bunch of old, stale, drivel.

The context of this thread is based on Paul's word that the feast days are a shadow of things to come. Based on that many have been looking very carefully at the feast days in the Bible (not just the big 7 but all of them) to see if they hold revelation concerning the Lord's coming.

They have looked very carefully at the days of Noah since the Lord said it would be as the days of Noah.

But what I am saying is that all those feasts are Israel's feast days. God has a covenant with Israel and He is going to keep that covenant. The only feast day we are given is the Lord's table and that is definitely a rehearsal for the Marriage of the Lamb. But then I asked what about Christmas and Easter? Did God give them to us? Technically they aren't in the Bible but we are also told that all things are of God and nothing that has come into being came into being apart from God.

So I looked at the celebration. First we celebrate the babe of Bethlehem. That is not a future event, that is a past event except for perhaps the birth of the man child in Revelation 12. Some think that is a reference to the rapture. The Lord said that God loves us just as He loved the Son, could it be that our rapture is prefigured in the birth of Jesus? There are a number of correlations, I have covered them earlier in this thread, but I then thought about the second half of this celebration. It has nothing to do with the Bible, the origin is pagan and whether or not it is idol worship I'll let God judge but it is very clearly the fables and old wives tales. A story about magical benevolent elves with allusions to Satan and thieves sneaking into your house at night. It is commercial, it has very many correlations with the apostasy, with the great delusion, with a lie given to those who do not love the truth, and with the deceit of exchanging your birthright for a bowl of soup or some junky present from the Mall.

This celebration appears to be a rehearsal for the rapture followed by those who are left behind due to the apostasy.
 

ZNP

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and this has what to do with a Christmas tree??
I am going to go through the entire book of Jude, I am only on verse 5 at the moment, but yes, I believe Jude has some amazing revelations for us especially in this day and at this time. As for verse 5 it is about how the children of Israel fell in the wilderness due to apostasy.

There are individual events but the big, overriding event was when the spies gave an evil report and they cried out to God that they had died in Egypt or would die in the wilderness but if they go in their children will become a prey. God answered that prayer, they all died in the wilderness, they did not go in, and to top it off the kids they were "doing this for" were the ones that went in instead of them

I think this sets the stage for understanding apostasy of the church.

and I also think that under the Lord's sovereignty the same story is told to us in our celebration of both Christmas and Easter where all the pagan practices are done for the sake of the children.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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and this has what to do with a Christmas tree??
I have all that mumbo jumbo teachings that the origins of Christmas are pagan in a box somewhere. That the jolly old nick is no saint, and the wrong date to the birth of Christ. I hailed it as pure nonsense. Oh don’t get me wrong, I found it all quite interesting. But it was like adding more superstitions, and I certainly don’t want that. You know there are believers out there that think that drinking coffee is a sin. The origins of the coffee beans are thus and thus and it’s also a drug.

I need my morning drug.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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I am going to go through the entire book of Jude, I am only on verse 5 at the moment, but yes, I believe Jude has some amazing revelations for us especially in this day and at this time. As for verse 5 it is about how the children of Israel fell in the wilderness due to apostasy.

There are individual events but the big, overriding event was when the spies gave an evil report and they cried out to God that they had died in Egypt or would die in the wilderness but if they go in their children will become a prey. God answered that prayer, they all died in the wilderness, they did not go in, and to top it off the kids they were "doing this for" were the ones that went in instead of them

I think this sets the stage for understanding apostasy of the church.

and I also think that under the Lord's sovereignty the same story is told to us in our celebration of both Christmas and Easter where all the pagan practices are done for the sake of the children.
Ah good, the book of Jude. An interesting book. Especially when he talks about Enoch and what he says. We have to leave the good old bible to read something else to get to what Jude was reading in his day. The book of Enoch, which is declared as not being a real inspaired book. Witches use the Pseudo Apocrypha books of the bible for whatever purpose, but that is where we read Enoch’s prophesy is in those books. These books were rejected. Other books are the book of Adam and Eve, incredible journey of filling in some pieces that are missing. I have found the first couple of chapters to be what is required but the rest is spooky and not worth giving heed to.
 

ZNP

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Ah good, the book of Jude. An interesting book. Especially when he talks about Enoch and what he says. We have to leave the good old bible to read something else to get to what Jude was reading in his day. The book of Enoch, which is declared as not being a real inspaired book. Witches use the Pseudo Apocrypha books of the bible for whatever purpose, but that is where we read Enoch’s prophesy is in those books. These books were rejected. Other books are the book of Adam and Eve, incredible journey of filling in some pieces that are missing. I have found the first couple of chapters to be what is required but the rest is spooky and not worth giving heed to.
Thank you, an excellent example of how some have removed the divine word. Jude is part of the divine scripture, it is a very valuable warning to us, the very definition of apostasy is to add to the word like adding the whole Santa claus story to Christmas and it is also the removing of scripture which is what would happen if we remove Jude from the Bible.

And this is Apostasy

James and Jude may be the two most despised books in the New Testament and yet the two books that could be the most helpful in keeping us from Apostasy.

The book of Enoch is very clearly a word from God. Three new testament writers either quote it directly or indirectly and Hebrews puts him into Chapter 11 with the hero's of faith, and in Genesis we are told that his account of being taken by God is real. it is not part of the New Testament or old testament because it is not part of our covenant with God but it is a very important information that we need to know.
 

Gardenias

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@ZNP
Gardenias has NOT said you have said anything about what She tells her children.

Do you have adult attention deficit disorder?

It seems as though you hyper out then swing normal. It is ok,I know a lot of adults that do have it. Meds are good at controlling focus!

Seems YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.......of what I said so I'll remove myself from this thread!
 
Nov 27, 2021
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Thank you, an excellent example of how some have removed the divine word. Jude is part of the divine scripture, it is a very valuable warning to us, the very definition of apostasy is to add to the word like adding the whole Santa claus story to Christmas and it is also the removing of scripture which is what would happen if we remove Jude from the Bible.

And this is Apostasy
But, Enoch needs to be justified for his words. He prophesied but there is no mention of his prophecy. To mention him without backing it up, anyone can take the stage.

And you know this anyway, so trying to explain is a waste of our time, but sufficient to say, that when a prophecy was fulfilled, it was quoted and we have the proof from the Old Testament that we can turn to to prove it. But, Enoch does not and that poses a problem.

That means that if we can’t find the inspired prophecy, then Jude was adding to the scriptures. Of course, we can’t accept that and neither should we. So, what is to be done for Enoch to place him among the true prophets of God?

Wouldn’t the answer be to find out why the book of Enoch was considered non inspirational and not apart of the canon of scripture? Jude must have thought it was.
 

ZNP

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But, Enoch needs to be justified for his words. He prophesied but there is no mention of his prophecy. To mention him without backing it up, anyone can take the stage.

And you know this anyway, so trying to explain is a waste of our time, but sufficient to say, that when a prophecy was fulfilled, it was quoted and we have the proof from the Old Testament that we can turn to to prove it. But, Enoch does not and that poses a problem.

That means that if we can’t find the inspired prophecy, then Jude was adding to the scriptures. Of course, we can’t accept that and neither should we. So, what is to be done for Enoch to place him among the true prophets of God?

Wouldn’t the answer be to find out why the book of Enoch was considered non inspirational and not apart of the canon of scripture? Jude must have thought it was.
There is a lot of problem with Enoch and there appears to be at least one counterfeit purporting to be the prophecy of Enoch, this is all true.

But the idea that unless it is in the Bible it cannot be the word of God or a real prophecy does not pass the smell test. God doesn't say that. What He does say is that it cannot contradict the Bible. No word from God would ever contradict the Bible. However, God can speak to you, me and many others. We are told that in the last days old men will dream dreams and young men will have visions. There is no limit to how many people God can speak to or what He might say to them

The Bible is our covenant with God. It is a contract. If you have bought a house you have a contract. Every word is legally binding. But that contract is not the sum total of all your speaking. If you respect the law and contracts you would never do one thing to contradict that contract. That doesn't mean you cannot do other things and speak other things.

Enoch had a vision of angels. This is important because it gives us insight into the Nephilim and that is important because the Lord said His return would be as the days of Noah. However, angels are not part of our covenant with God so there is almost no need for the prophecy to be in the Bible except for what is quoted by the NT writers.
 
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There is a lot of problem with Enoch and there appears to be at least one counterfeit purporting to be the prophecy of Enoch, this is all true.

But the idea that unless it is in the Bible it cannot be the word of God or a real prophecy does not pass the smell test. God doesn't say that. What He does say is that it cannot contradict the Bible. No word from God would ever contradict the Bible. However, God can speak to you, me and many others. We are told that in the last days old men will dream dreams and young men will have visions. There is no limit to how many people God can speak to or what He might say to them

The Bible is our covenant with God. It is a contract. If you have bought a house you have a contract. Every word is legally binding. But that contract is not the sum total of all your speaking. If you respect the law and contracts you would never do one thing to contradict that contract. That doesn't mean you cannot do other things and speak other things.

Enoch had a vision of angels. This is important because it gives us insight into the Nephilim and that is important because the Lord said His return would be as the days of Noah. However, angels are not part of our covenant with God so there is almost no need for the prophecy to be in the Bible except for what is quoted by the NT writers.
I read your words. I agree with most of it.

I like the wording you said, “Every word is legally binding”. We can include jot and tittles.

Forgive me, but it really looks like you’ve just explained Enoch away as being unimportant because angels were not a part of the covenant. We are not talking about angels, we are talking about justifying Enoch’s words as legitimate holy writ.

I know the thread is talking about Christmas, but this is far more important than spruce trees and fat men on sleighs and finally telling Rudolph the truth that his red nose is actually a bad case of the sniffles.
 
S

SophieT

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@ZNP
Gardenias has NOT said you have said anything about what She tells her children.

Do you have adult attention deficit disorder?

It seems as though you hyper out then swing normal. It is ok,I know a lot of adults that do have it. Meds are good at controlling focus!

Seems YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.......of what I said so I'll remove myself from this thread!

what you describe is the actual constant in how he posts no matter the subject

I have not bothered since he went all 'this is a hill to die on' with his nibiru prophecies in the wormwood thread

but since he brought his particular 'God told me to tell you' diatribe of much ado about nothing to the BDF, I thought well maybe this will be different.

nope

he also appears to be missing the NT from his Bible which of course, is a trait of all self appointed prophetic types

and now we have wandered down the path of Enoch who taught us how to use the Bible codes...oh. wait....I don't think it was him :unsure:
 
K

kaylagrl

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I have all that mumbo jumbo teachings that the origins of Christmas are pagan in a box somewhere. That the jolly old nick is no saint, and the wrong date to the birth of Christ. I hailed it as pure nonsense. Oh don’t get me wrong, I found it all quite interesting. But it was like adding more superstitions, and I certainly don’t want that. You know there are believers out there that think that drinking coffee is a sin. The origins of the coffee beans are thus and thus and it’s also a drug.

I need my morning drug.
My sister would fully agree with this. lol
 

BroTan

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We are commanded to keep the Lord's table, that is the one day we are commanded to keep. Nowhere are we commanded to celebrate Christmas, however, that said most of the church does and I am interested in knowing why. Yes, we know it wasn't the day He was born on but if you believe that Jesus is Lord why under His sovereignty would His church go through this Holy convocation year after year?

I don't believe in coincidences, I think that is an insult to God through whom are all things. Nor do I believe in something like this being meaningless when every single word of the Bible is filled with meaning.



I don't think you will have any Biblical support for this when Paul in Colossians tells us plainly not to let anyone judge us with regards to keeping a feast day. The OT was a covenant made with Abraham and the Jews, Gentiles are not bound by that covenant, our covenant was made during the Lord's table. Which is the only day we are charged to keep.



Yes, I agree as well that many of the things in the Christmas celebration indicate that the hearts are far fro the Lord and when someone says that the Christmas tree represents Christ's birth then you know they are teaching the doctrines of men.


I don't think you will have any Biblical support for this when Paul in Colossians tells us plainly not to let anyone judge us with regards to keeping a feast day. The OT was a covenant made with Abraham and the Jews, Gentiles are not bound by that covenant, our covenant was made during the Lord's table. Which is the only day we are charged to keep.
In the Leviticus, 23rd Chapter the sabbath day and the High Holy Days which begin I believe on the new moon. Are the feast of the Lord's. These days are to be observe in their season. In Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These feast days are the plans of God, they represent the future, with example from the past. All Holy Days are not to eat or drink, such as the atonement, but still to be observe. So this is actually what a person would say to someone who do not keep these feast day of the Lord, if they were judging them on those High and Holy Sabbath days, they were keeping. They would quoted Colossians 2: 16-17. So if a person keep the first day of the week, Sunday, then it makes no sense to use this verse. A person cannot worship other days that’s not written in the Bible to do, and then use the Bible to justify it. So if you keep another day thats not written in the Bible, then you are doing something on your own, thus it would really be contradictorily.
 

BroTan

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Did He set us free to be yoked again to more commandments?

If I am commanded to love Him, what’s the good of that? Can we force a lover to love us? I’ve never seen that work out right.

I’ve taken a horse to the water trough and as much as I tried to force his head down into that water, he would not. But, If I walked away, no problems.

So, when the bible says “commandment” what is exactly being said? Is it a bible thumping smash over the head commandment, or is it something else?

I remember when my Dad tried to force me to listen to a preacher speak. I certainly sat there but I closed my ears until it was over and I had a good look at the door to get out. Is that what God is saying when He talks about commandments, because if it is, no one will yield to that kind of arm twisting.

So, how does this all work? The answer is the freedom to love because faith worketh by love.

If I love God freely and not forced to love Him, I am going to be a pretty good son. But, if He said, ”You better love me boy or else”, most likely I will take the “else”.
Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.
(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
 
K

kaylagrl

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@ZNP
Gardenias has NOT said you have said anything about what She tells her children.

Do you have adult attention deficit disorder?

It seems as though you hyper out then swing normal. It is ok,I know a lot of adults that do have it. Meds are good at controlling focus!

Seems YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.......of what I said so I'll remove myself from this thread!

Here is something we can do to make this thread of use. The state of KY was hit with horrific tornadoes. My sister lives next to one of the towns that is 75% gone, destroyed. A couple lost their 5 month old baby, the father broke his neck, the mother is paralyzed from the waist down. Over 7,000 homes have been destroyed. No I can't give a call for donations here, but there are places to give. Certainly those who can give, I hope you will. But we can certainly pray for the people who are homeless, who have lost everything, who have lost loved ones. The youngest lost was 2 months old. So instead of the utter nonsense in this thread, lets focus on these people who have lost so much.
 

BroTan

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I agree, however all the festivals in the OT were convocations, rehearsals for the big event so I wonder if this is also a rehearsal for the rapture of the man child described in Rev 12 with "Santa" being the big dragon who wants to devour the man child.

In Revelation 12: 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Here's Satan titles, and maybe Santa name came from Satan, but I can't prove that in the Bible.
 

BroTan

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you mean the nation of Israel.

that is who Passover and the Feasts were commanded to.

not gentiles.

Lets take a look into (Ephesians 2:11-22) let’s look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Paul said in Ephesians 2: 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 - And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
 

gb9

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the Sabbath command was part of the Covenant that God made with Israel at Sinai through Moses.


it was never a command for gentiles.
 

ZNP

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Example of the Corporate punishment of the Angels, part 1

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Three views of this passage, part 1

1 -- Not intended to know any more than is here even though the other two examples given (Israel and Sodom and Gomorrah) expect you to know in great detail what is there. This is something of a cop out view, "let's not talk anymore about this".

2. -- The second view is that these angels which sinned had to do with the Fall of Lucifer and so we can explore a lot more on that subject from the Old Testament and even from the New Testament.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" Isaiah 14:12 This chapter is about the king of Babylon and yet it turns in the discussion to where he is talking about Lucifer. This shows that Lucifer was the power behind the king of Babylon. The source of his error was 5 "I will" statements.

I will ascend into heaven
I will exalt my throne
I will sit also upon the mount
I will ascend above the heights
I will be like the most high

Now let's see how this relates to Christmas. This is about the Son of God, Jesus being born and the whole first half of this celebration is all about Jesus being born of a virgin to be God with us, our savior.

So what does Satan do? He creates a story to rival the story of Jesus birth. His throne is in the world, and this story is to exalt worldly commerce. He sits this story right next to the account of Jesus birth. The airways promote this story of Santa Claus every bit as much if not more than that of the birth of Jesus. He makes his story like the most high. The Lord will rapture saints all over the Earth in the twinkling of an eye, well he can visit every single house on earth in a single night. We pray to God, well he creates a "letter to Santa". God is omniscient, well "he sees you when you sleep, he knows when your awake, he knows if you've been bad or good" so you have this tyrannical version of an omniscient God.

Ezekiel deals with the Prince of Tyre and then switches to the king of Tyre -- the epitome of wisdom and beauty. He was in Eden, covered with every precious stone. But he was created. He was appointed to the top office, he was in charge right up until iniquity was found in him. Ezekiel goes into discussion of his judgement by fire.

Revelation 12 tells us that the great red dragon who wants to devour the man child is Satan. We also see that the angels allied with Satan were thrown out with him. Who then is the woman? We saw this same woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars in Joseph's dream.

Some claim the woman is Israel but there are major problems with that, others say she is the church but again, major problems with that. However, we also got a glimpse of this same woman at the time of Eve when the Bible prophesied about the seed of the woman crushing the serpents head. This is the seed of the woman that God said would crush Satan's head and that is why Satan wants to devour the child.

Based on this the man child is Jesus Christ and it almost fits this story perfectly, but not quite. Jesus was not snatched up to heaven, he ascended in the cloud. The word snatched up is the word we refer to as the rapture, it is harpazo, to be rescued from destruction. This is where I realized that this birth looks almost like Jesus birth but not quite, and thus the story of Jesus birth could be prophetic for the rapture.

Now if it is Jesus they want the woman to represent Israel, but if the woman is Eve she is "the mother of all living". Yes, Israel gave birth to Jesus, it is like a small circle inside a bigger circle, while Eve gave birth to both Jesus and the raptured saints. The seed of the woman is both Jesus and the Bride of Christ. There are not two seeds, the raptured saints were built from a rib taken from the 2nd Adam. There is no account in the New Testament of Satan being cast out of heaven when Jesus was born or of him being snatched up. However, when Jesus expanded His ministry and sent out the saints He said "I beheld Satan falling like lightning from heaven". Beginning with Genesis 3:15 we see this attack from Satan on man and it carries through almost to the end of Revelation. This is a major theme of the Bible. It is foolish to think "let's not talk about this anymore'.

I find it interesting that if we discuss Santa Claus everyone knows the entire story, they are familiar with all of it, even though it is not in the Bible. Still it is very relevant when we talk about Christmas and the celebration of Christmas. To me it is just like Jude's reference to Enoch and the fallen angels. All the Jews knew this story, it was relevant to the apostasy, even though it was not in the Bible.

Anyway there are several times in history where Satan kills all the babies. At the time of Moses and at the time of Jesus birth and then here again in Revelation 12. Now consider this, if the rapture will be very much like the birth of Jesus we can expect the death of many babies again. Anyone worried about vaccine mandates to kids?

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron

That is clearly Jesus Christ. Except the NT also says that we are to rule and reign with Him. So it is both Christ and the Church.

Revelation 12:6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Clearly this verse is a reference to the tribulation and the 70th week prophesied of in Daniel. Those who think the man child only refers to Jesus have two very big problems, Jesus was not "snatched up" He ascended, different word. The very next verse is talking about the tribulation starting. Now if you think it only refers to Jesus you have to have a very big gap in time in your theory. If however, like me, you think this refers to both Jesus and the Church then I can refer to Genesis where it says the man and the woman were one flesh and God called their name Adam. The church is Eve and yet we are one with Jesus and we (Jesus and the Church) are called "Adam". No round pegs going into square holes.

Accordingly some teach that this child is "the body of Christ". It is very easy to see verse 5 as the rapture because from verse 6 on you have the tribulation.

Once again, let's bring this back to the Christmas celebration. What made the holocaust possible? Various teachings that peeled people away from God. They blamed Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus. They described human life as being godless evolution where it is survival of the fittest and killing others is all natural. Now imagine we have the rapture, the world wakes up on Christmas and realizes they have been duped, they have this junk under a stupid tree while all those crazies talking of virgin births and rapture are gone. Do you think it will be hard for the world under the control of Satan to take out their anger on the woman during the tribulation? There are warnings like that of Demas who loved the world and forsook Paul. There will be two groups, the worldly descendants of Cain who will want to murder the believers and the apostate church who will have to repent and turn back to the Lord including both the Christians and ultimately the nation of Israel who will look on Him whom they pierced.

The problem with view #2 is that Satan is not bound and the angels that are cast to the earth are not bound. So then who is Jude talking about?
 

ZNP

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Example of the Corporate punishment of the Angels, part 2

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Three views of this passage, part 2

3. Genesis 6:1-4 -- Noah's flood was because the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair and took them wives of all which they chose. This term in Hebrew for "sons of God" is always used of angels. When the Septuagint translated these other uses they translated it as angels. The offspring of this union were giants, the Nephilim. They gave birth to something unnatural. The word Nephilim means "the fallen ones". Hence angels leaving their appropriate domain and give birth to something bizarre.

This union clearly has a physical component. However, the apostasy is about "doctrines of demons". We receive the word into us and the word of God grows within us. Well Satan has a counterfeit word. God sows wheat into his field and Satan sows tares. We live by every word of God and Satan wants to replace that word with old wives tales and fables and myths. You think this is not dangerous, but look where it leads. Look at what is going on today with lawlessness, those who are calling good evil and evil good. Why do you think the kids lose their trust in the parents? If you are not reliable, if when they trusted you fully they later discover you lied to them and as a result their friends laugh at them then you can see how this could be a wedge between parents and kids. The same person who told me about Santa is now going to tell me about Jesus? I don't think so.

Anakim are also the giants, Goliath and his four brothers are of this group. The term that Noah was "perfect in his generations" indicates his DNA had not been tarnished with Nephilim. This gives you a picture of Noah's day which is bizarre. People lived for hundreds of years.

Anyway there is an interesting correlation between this verse in Jude and Greek mythology of the Titans who were bound and sent to Tartarus. The chaldean term Titan is equivalent to the Hebrew term Satan. The goal here is for Satan to contaminate man's seed. In the next verse Jude says "in a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion". The implication is that this is the nature of the sin of the angels in verse 6.

So, what is the point? The Bible warns very much against meddling with the spirit world. You do not know what you are doing. Like drugs, they will hook you and destroy you. Flee all occultic things, party games, horoscopes, etc. Even subtle, innocent things can be devastating. If you deceive a kid about Santa that could damage them in receiving the Lord. For example the Exorcist was based on several case studies, at least one of which was a result of people playing with a Weegie board. These things are dangerous because they are driven by demonic, evil spiritual forces. Paul calls them "seducing spirits'. Any doctrine that is not Biblically sound has a very malevolent source. Pseudo Christian doctrines that are only 1 degree off will cause you to really get off course over time. The protection from this is the whole council of God. You make a gigantic mistake if you underestimate him.

Jude's point is to emphasize the serious nature of apostasy.
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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I read your words. I agree with most of it.

I like the wording you said, “Every word is legally binding”. We can include jot and tittles.

Forgive me, but it really looks like you’ve just explained Enoch away as being unimportant because angels were not a part of the covenant. We are not talking about angels, we are talking about justifying Enoch’s words as legitimate holy writ.

I know the thread is talking about Christmas, but this is far more important than spruce trees and fat men on sleighs and finally telling Rudolph the truth that his red nose is actually a bad case of the sniffles.
Jude is using their judgement from God as an example that God does not play around with apostasy and also to warn us of how dangerous it can be to fool around with anything occultic or spiritual. You might think it is a stupid game or a dumb story, Satan is far wiser than you and has a far more sinister plan. It is like drugs, don't fool around with it or you will get hooked.