Christmas tree -- vestige from Babylonian worship

[ZNP]

Jude 8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings.

This refers back to vers 4 where Jude says that these ones had secretly crept into the church and this is why he was compelled to share about the apostasy even though what he had intended to do was talk about the salvation once for all delivered.

Pollute their own bodies

You cannot believe in prophecy and evolution. They are antithetical. in the same way the creation and the second coming imply God intervening in human history. Those that defile the flesh will spout off things like secular humanism, evolution, and God has nothing to do with man. Gal 5:19-20 gives you a list of what defiling the flesh means.

Reject authority

Ultimate authority is that every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. God sets up authorities. Some are arguing that this is why we should get the vaccine, but the mandate is a very clear violation of God's authority. The Nuremberg codes prohibit mandating an experimental vaccine. Courts have repeatedly determined that Biden has violated his constitutional authority. Reject authority is not talking about Biden, it is talking about the office of President and the authority vested in those people by the constitution. If you violate the constitution you have rejected the authority of the constitution and by extension your own authority. The apostates speak in judgement of authority. For example, Satan is "the accuser of the brethren". If you accuse the brethren are you doing the work of Satan? The ultimate dignity that they rail against is Jesus Christ, this was illustrated in the two stories I posted about SNL mocking the Lord's birth and a gang rape of Roger Stone's wife.

This book of Jude is written to believers for our learning.

 

[SophieT]

Is Apostasy related to sexual perversion?

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

We have seen several examples of people attempting to suppress the truth on this thread. Gaslighting is one way, this is where you keep repeating a lie until others believe it. Look at what I have shared and look at what I am accused of sharing. They are two different things. This is gaslighting. Personal attacks is a second, accusing someone of being a false prophet, a liar, etc., etc. Then there was a blatant attempt to hijack the thread by posting about tornadoes as though that had anything to do with this. There are many threads with discussions I am not interested to participate in, I just ignore them. But these ones are unable to ignore this. Why?

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Everyone on earth can know God's eternal power and divine nature by looking at the creation. There are many examples of people coming to the Lord based on the testimony of creation. For example mathematicians have looked at the odds of complex proteins forming due to random mutation, compared that with how many seconds there are in 13 billion years (estimated age of the universe) and have come to the conclusion that we have a very real problem with the theory of evolution.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

This is what the apostasy is, they didn't glorify God as God, nor did they give thanks to Him. But their thinking became futile. Many translations translate that as vain imaginations. The main defense made for the Christmas tree is that it is simply a decoration without any meaning or significance, it is "vanity". Does anyone truly believe that the Christmas tree has no meaning or significance in the celebration of this holiday? Maybe they do. These people claim they are wiser and more mature than the believers who refuse to get involved in these extra biblical practices. They are those who are stronger in the faith, they eat mean, whereas those who don't have Christmas trees are weaker in the faith. They are referring to a verse where Paul says if the believer sees you eating at an idol temple. In Taiwan most restaurants have a little altar where they put an offering to their pagan God. I never worried about that, however, I didn't put one of those altars in my own house. By saying this they are admitting that the Christmas tree is a pagan altar that they have set up in their own house! How foolish! Then what do they decorate this tree with? Gold, tinsel, lights, and little ornaments of things that look like mortal human beings, birds, animals and reptiles. But of course, "they are the ones who are stronger in the faith".

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

This leads to sexual immorality. This is why the Bible equates fornication with idolatry. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie. Everyone who is older than six knows that all those Santa Claus stories are a lie. Everyone who is honest knows that putting gifts under the Christmas Tree is the same as putting gifts on an altar to an idol, you are worshipping and serving created things rather than the Creator who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

But it gets worse, the church becomes Sodom and Gomorrah. They think they are rich and wise and in need of nothing and don't realize they are naked and blind.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

And it gets worse. Yes, this is the apostasy, it begins with suppressing the truth and ends up down here. Not only do they do these things but they approve of those who practice them. They call good evil and evil good. The world is turned upside down and in response God will turn the world upside down and scrape them off like wiping a plate into the garbage.

the video you began this op with, is directly related to sexual perversion

Jon Courson, the man speaking in your video, is an adulterer who had the church cover up his sin and his son is a serial adulterer

a perversion of the marriage covenant that was covered up

that is not someone I need or want instructing anyone on how to celebrate Christmas

you skipped over that post, so are you also covering up this man's sin? he had no business returning to the pulpit of his mega church as if nothing was wrong

 

[SophieT]

did some research on Mr Courson here and it turns out he is better at telling other people what he thinks is sin or partaking in the world, then he is at following his own advice. His son, is worse

sometimes the people who come down so heavy on what they think is wrong with everyone else, are actually covering up and having covered up for them, their own transgressions

and yes, it does reflect on this video. as the pastor of a mega church, he has a huge responsibility and he cannot honestly put burdens on others while he knowingly covers up his own ...literal...affair. and like father like son. his son had to step down from ministry because of numerous women claiming he had affairs or inappropriate touching with them

excerpt from the Roys Report(restoring the church)

Gray said he urged Applegate leaders to follow I Timothy 5:19-20, which instructs church leaders to expose sinning elders. But instead, church leaders reportedly cited Genesis 9 as their guideline, noting that Noah’s sons covered up Noah’s nakedness.
The leaders also said they had “prayed against” the “spirit of sensuality” that had descended on the church, Gray said, and believed this would take care of the problem.
“The response was essentially to ignore all of it and to move on,” Gray said.

so what happened, is that his son sinned in the same manner mulitple of times because his father went along with covering up the adultery.

Jon’s son, Ben Courson, was appointed to replace his father at Applegate. But in August, Ben stepped down after allegations of sexual misconduct by numerous women were made public.

read it all here (it is worth reading)

you cannot cover up sin. it will come back to bite you.

 

[Dino246]

It is stunning that Jude uses Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of the apostasy.

I don’t see “apostasy” mentioned in Jude. Which version are you using?

 

[ZNP]

Warning about speaking evil of anyone.

Jude 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

What a very strange verse. It is directly related to verse 8 which talks about the apostates speaking evil of dignities. Titus tells us we should speak evil of no man (Titus 3:2).

This matter is so special that it requires its own verse to emphasize it. Once again I would repeat that the SNL skits mocking the birth of Jesus and talking about raping Roger Stone's wife are examples of railing against dignities. Already the point that Jude gives us many references that are not in the Bible like this one of Michael and the devil disputing over Moses body. Well the SNL skits are also not in the Bible. Anyone who speaks on the Bible will often refer to events the readers are familiar with and yet are not in the Bible. However, this is not simply a Bible teacher illustrating a point, this is Jude who was given the burden from the Lord to share this word with us, a word that has become part of the covenant. Also, even though it refers to Moses body this is not part of the Old Covenant, it is part of our New Covenant. This is a point of common ground with Jude and his readers at the time he wrote this just as I have done with the SNL skits that were referenced previously in this thread.

This is stunning, Michael dared not bring a railing accusation against the devil. This is amazing, what many in the church want to do is pretend Satan is not there, this is not an idol, we are not involved in apostasy, etc. Big mistake. On the other hand many will rail against dignities and speak evil of men. Yes, it is true that these celebrations have pagan roots and yes it is true that we have been told very specifically to flee idolatry and that there is no communion between the table of idols and the table of the Lord. All that is true. But what is also true is that Jesus is Lord. He is the one that will rebuke them. In the meantime we need to learn to follow the Lord, hold to His word, and obey His commands.

Michael is no wimp, he is the warrior angel, and he was on a mission from God, yet even so he respects the chain of command. To me it is just like Lot thinking his mission is to reform Sodom and not stay on the mountain of communion. Abraham was no wimp and when Lot is taken captive Abraham leads his own band of warriors to go defeat four kings and rescue Lot.

So why is it that everyone knows what Jude is talking about? The Bible tells us that Enoch was a prophet prior to the flood and that Noah was a preacher. We have many prophets and preachers, their messages are not part of the New Testament, that doesn't mean they aren't the word of God and instructive for us. The New Testament is our covenant, just because something is not in the New Testament does not mean it isn't the word of God. The test is that no word of God will contradict either the Old or New Testament. For example Paul tells us that Jesus said "it is more blessed to give than to receive" yet it is not recorded in the gospels. Another example is Janus and Jambres, the two magicians that turned their rods into snakes. Their names are not in the Torah but they are in Timothy. In the old testament we see this drought at the time of Elijah and Ahab. However, you don't learn that it was a response to Elijah's prayers until the book of James. Acts 7 is another example of Stephen giving us all kinds of insights into the Old Testament that you would not otherwise get.

Michael is the Archangel, meaning chief angel. The name means "he who is like unto God". The first mention is Daniel 10 -- a chapter that pulls the curtain back from the powers and spiritual warfare behind the curtain. There are these spiritual powers behind every country and every government. This angel got help from Michael in his warfare with the prince of Persia. Michael is introduced as having a mission to fight for God's people collectively and specifically for Israel.

In Revelation 12 we see that Michael fights against Satan and is in charge of kicking him out of heaven. I believe this battle is going on right now behind the scenes, this is why there are "rumors of war". This will become visible for all to see at this time when Satan and his angels are cast to the earth. Think about it, if Christmas trees are really nothing and not part of idol worship why the big vehement response? There is a war going on right now about removing the leaven of apostasy from the church.

So then why are these two fighting over the body of Moses? There are 500 references to Moses and only 1 verse refers to the body of Moses. The Torah tells us that God buried Moses. Here Jude tells us there was a contest over this body, Michael won, and He is in charge of this sepulchre. One theory is that the sepulchre would have become an object of worship. So you can see why Satan would love to have the body to make it an object of worship. 2Kings 18:4 -- talks about how the Bronze serpent had become an idol. Now compare Hezekiah destroying the Bronze serpent which had a very strong Biblical history and basis. Can you imagine the outcry when he did that? If people are screaming and yelling over Christmas trees you can be sure they would be upset at destroying the Bronze serpent, an item of legitimate historical value. The children of Israel did burn incense to the Bronze serpent, that is like singing "O Christmas Tree",

There is another theory that Moses will have a future roll for Moses in the Tribulation as one of the two witnesses. If Moses is one of the two witnesses this is because he never finished his ministry. He was supposed to speak unto the rock. Moses was upset when God wasn't, that was a false witness. Second, he says "must we fetch you water out of this rock"? Is he taking credit for this? Again, a major mistake. Moses makes a full confession of this in Deuteronomy.

Jude's point is that Michael is on a mission from God to contend for the faith and even there he does not bring a railing accusation against Satan. This is the most extreme example he could give us for being under the headship of Jesus. Very strong warning against speaking evil and the focus is on keeping us balanced. We are to contend, not run and hide, but we are not to engage in evil speaking.

 

[ZNP]

I don’t see “apostasy” mentioned in Jude. Which version are you using?

Jude 3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude tells us the reason he is writing is because of these men who have crept in to turn the grace of Christ into lasciviousness and to deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. That is the definition of the apostasy, to leave the grace of Christ and to deny Jesus Christ Lord of all.

 

[SophieT]

But those who persist in sin should be rebuked in front of everyone, so that the others will stand in fear of sin I Timothy 5:20

rebuke sin...do not cover it up!

as Jesus said, a little leaven will infect the entire bread

covered up sin will infect an entire church

 

[Dino246]

Jude 3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude tells us the reason he is writing is because of these men who have crept in to turn the grace of Christ into lasciviousness and to deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. That is the definition of the apostasy, to leave the grace of Christ and to deny Jesus Christ Lord of all.

Wrong. Read the dictionary.

 

[ZNP]

 

[ZNP]

Jude 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.

The word for slander is blasphemo, the word we call blaspheme, and it means to vilify, speak reproachfully or calumniate. The one thing all of these examples of apostasy have in common whether it is Israel crying out about the giants in the land, or angels leaving their position to seek after strange flesh or Sodom and Gomorrah, in every case they blaspheme things they don't understand. Very quick to slander others and to act like irrational animals do. There are two different words for know or in this translation "understand". They do not have a deep intimate understanding, but the things they perceive by their senses just like animals, they only have a superficial understanding.

The apostate limits himself to mere natural knowledge, he rails at the truth and finally perishes eternally in his own corruption.

The first ten verses of Jude set the stage for verse 11 on which the entire letter pivots. Verse 9 gave us a glimpse of what is going on in the spiritual realm, verses 12 and 13 show us apostasy from the natural realm, verses 5-7 gave us the history of apostasy which will be followed by apostasy in prophecy. Jude has given us three corporate examples and now he will give us three individual examples: Cain, Balaam and Korah.

 

[ZNP]

The Way of Cain -- the highway to hell

Jude 11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

Apostasy is not confined to any one class of people. Cain was a farmer, Balaam was a prophet, and Korah was a prince. Each one portrays a particular aspect of falling away from the truth. The process is simple: they enter on the wrong path, they run riotously down that path and they perish at its end. Here is the brutal truth, there is no hope for apostates found in Jude. Their doom is sure. To them is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Another translation that will emphasize this process they go through. In the way of Cain they went away, and in the wandering for reward they rushed headlong, and in the rebellion of Korah they perished.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 16:25. Our natural judgement is not a reliable guide. We have already learned that the apostates rely on their natural judgement. The Lord's work of redemption is much greater than the work of the first creation. We need spiritual discernment and enlightenment.

So let's take a look and figure out what was Cain's error. What was the wrong path? He did not deny the existence of God he gave an offering to God. Also, Cain did not refuse to worship God and he was not in rebellion. He made an offering with the fruit of his labor. In Hebrews 11 we learn that by faith Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice. Faith comes by hearing. Abel had heard something -- he had heard that they had sinned and were then clothed by God. Prior to sinning they were clothed with light, after sinning they attempted to clothe themselves with fig leaves. God then made coats of skins and clothed them. From Genesis to Revelation it becomes clear that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. When you sacrifice a lamb in order to get the skin it drives home the point that sin is very serious. You can't ignore it, dismiss it, or shrug it off.

Again, let's consider what all the hubbub is on this thread about the Christmas Tree. I have come with a big knife to sacrifice that tree! People are shocked, you can't do that! It is just a little sin, tiny really, insignificant, can't even really be called a sin. That is the way of Cain. Go down that road and you are on the apostasy highway, more commonly called "the highway to hell". The on ramp to the apostasy, known as the way of Cain, is to shrug off sin as something we can ignore or sweep under the rug. The only way that we can approach God is on the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the lamb of God. Cain did not do that, he felt he could bring the works of his own hands to worship God. "You are a talented singer, use that talent for the Lord". Terrible advice, instead I would say "You are a redeemed sinner standing on the shed blood of Christ, you can have boldness to approach God, ask for grace, and you can serve Him in boldness standing on that blood". Then trust that the position you have in Christ as a result of faith is adequate. Now I can serve the Lord joyfully. Suppose you are led to be a teacher and yet you only teach ten people in your entire life, rejoice, for all you know those ten will become great evangelists, shepherds, teachers, prophets and other gifts to the body. The way of Cain tells us that we can't add anything to the completed work of Jesus Christ, faith versus works. Cain followed his own way according to his own idea, Abel listened to God and made his offering by faith that came from hearing.

The Error of Balaam -- what a lying hypocrite

Ran riotously, rampage, poured forth. Balaam was a prophet, he wasn't posing as a prophet, he was a real prophet that are recorded in the word of God. He prophesied of the star of Bethlehem that was the major sign of Jesus first coming. Think about that, Daniel knew Balaam was a false prophet and yet he still received this prophecy from Balaam to teach the magi what to look for when Jesus was born. What makes Balaam a "false" prophet is he is a prophet for hire. He is a kind of expert on the ways of God so the enemies of God hire him as a consultant on how to curse Israel. He was warned not to do this. I had an experience of a Balaam. I was preaching the gospel at Rice University, our gospel was turning the campus upside down so a professor who taught religious studies (basically a sociology professor) asked to visit the church. He then wrote an article in a major Texas magazine. He had clearly been hired to curse the church and yet God turned that curse to a blessing just as we see in Numbers. So the king hires Balaam saying "whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed". This is how the fake news operates. They want to be the "king maker", they want to manipulate public opinion. It was this agenda that Balaam had that made him false. He is credible as a prophet because he speaks the word of God. Balaam does not want to destroy his credibility because that is why he is hired as a prophet, but at the same time he wants the gold from this king. So God tells Balaam no, he in turn tells the representatives no, and they return to the king. It looks like Balaam is being obedient but if you continue with the story you learn he is just negotiating for a higher price. So Balak sends a second negotiating team and Balaam says "if you shall give me a house filled with silver and gold I could not go with you"? Why not just say, no, the Lord said no? So he again asks the Lord to go and it becomes clear he is not going to obey the Lord. Many Christians, maybe every single Christian negotiates with the Lord like this.

Maybe you realize a Christmas tree is idolatrous, but what about a wreath? Maybe you realize you will not have anything to do with Santa, but can't we have a tree, they are so pretty. So then the Lord draws a new red line, you cannot say anything other than what I tell you. Now think about this, they have hired Balaam specifically to curse Israel, that was very clear in the contract. God tells him they are blessed, you can't curse them. But he persists and so God says you can't say anything other than what I tell you. He takes that as "great, I can go"? This is why he is a false prophet. You have promised them to curse Israel and you have promised God you won't curse Israel. What a lying hypocrite all for the love of money.

Now many think, hey he blessed Israel, he didn't curse them so what is the big deal. Because although he didn't curse them he did counsel Balak on how to damage Israel by teaching them to commit fornication and worship idols.

This is the big lying hypocrisy of Christmas. They argue that it is a blessing to the church, not a curse. Perhaps, but it opens the door to teach the believers to commit fornication and worship idols. The teachings are focused on kids, young impressionable kids. The TV is filled with their "Balaam prophecy and teachings". The star of Bethlehem is not the only story they like to tell, talking donkeys or reindeer is another, filling your house with gold or silver is still another. Think about it, all these prophets who write these TV shows and movies they are all "prophets for hire" and the goal is to curse the church. The world lies in the evil one, time to wake up to that fact. Every year all of these Balaams are required to put out a "Christmas album". Wake up, the goal is not to bless the church. "Santa Baby" is teaching the Israelites to commit fornication and "O Christmas Tree" is teaching them to "eat things sacrificed to idols". These albums, these TV shows, all this stuff your kids are consuming are things that are sacrificed to idols. Balaam was in the church whose name meant "married to the world". Balaam got his reward, lived riotously and then perished miserably with the enemies of God in Joshua 13. Again think of these ones raking in millions for their albums, songs and TV shows.

The error of Balaam was to exchange the eternal inheritance for the pleasures of sin for a season and for the treasures of Egypt. The message the world is sending during the "Christmas season". What's wrong with having a Christmas tree? Wrong question, what is right about it? Does it strengthen your prayer life? Does it improve your fellowship with the Lord? Are you filled with life and peace?

 

[ZNP]

Rebellion of Korah -- Going down alive unto Sheol

Jude 11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.

The rebellion of Korah is sometimes translated as "gainsaying" of Korah. The literal translation is "against the word". When we do things contrary to the word of God that is rebellion. He was the cousin to Moses. He led a rebellion against Moses with Dathan and Abiram. They are rebelling against a type of Christ. They made the fundamental mistake of thinking "all are holy". They led a rebellion with 250 princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown. Isn't that how the world operates? Let's get a famous Hollywood actor like Tom Hanks. Let's get the President of the US to have a big Christmas tree, and also Rockefeller center, etc. The basic argument they were making is that Moses is too restrictive, like the Lord who said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh to the father but by me". This is contrary to the globalists goal of the brotherhood of man. The one world religion can accept all religions except for the Evangelical Christians because they are too restrictive. Korah was saying we don't need Moses, just like this one world religion of the globalists is saying we don't need Jesus Christ. Is the cross really necessary? Did Jesus really have to be crucified? "If it be possible let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will but as thou will". The Lord prayed it three times, if there had been any way to get into heaven that bypasses the cross He was crucified in vain.

Is this not what Christmas is all about? A holiday the whole world can celebrate, a holiday to make the apostates rich. All of these Christmas songs, all of these TV shows and Movies do they emphasize the need to hear the Lord's voice and obey Him standing on His shed blood? No, it is all about good works, the way of Cain. The finished product is a rebellion against God by all the famous elites saying we don't need Moses, we don't need Jesus because we are all one big brotherhood, we are all holy. This is the temptation from Satan, you don't need to go to the cross. We are told that God will send a strong delusion to those who do not love the truth that they should believe the lie.

Those in rebellion go straight to sheol alive. Those who are worshipping Jesus as the one way are raptured straight to heaven alive. In both cases the Lord does a new thing never before seen. In both cases this is done to confirm God's ordination, first of Moses and then of Jesus.

 

[Blik]

We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

It is as if some men got together and said they knew what to celebrate, God is too dumb to know!

The seven feasts celebrates God's plan for our salvation right up through the end of this world. When Christ was crucified and died for us we were given eternal life. When Christ was born he fist lived simply as a carpenter. What we can celebrate about his earthly life was telling us how to live in the kingdom of heaven.

I wonder if people really understand how great eternal life is--they praise a person for saving an earthly life and our life here is just temporary. This is saving a life for eternity.

We thumb our noses at God's orders to celebrate salvation yet we spend many dollars on giving each other an earthly thrill of owning some material THING and call it a religious celebration.

 

[ZNP]

Jude 12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Unseen danger

Spots in your love feasts -- the word is hidden rocks, the rocks a mariner doesn't see that will sink his ship. They have come to eat and to plunder. They have an agenda, a mission. Reefs below the ocean threatening safe navigation. If a rock is above the ocean it is not as big a threat. These are the ones who have snuck in secretly. Atheists and agnostics are up front and honest about who they are, these are those who sneak in secretly. Without the slightest qualm -- feeding themselves without fear

Everyone can see that atheists have a particular danger, the fleshly have a certain danger, drugs (sorcery) has a certain danger. But Christmas? Come on man!

Compare this with the rock of our salvation and with the believers who are living stones.

False promise

Clouds without water, carried about by the winds -- clouds are for rain but these are deceit, they don't have any water. This suggests dry places and according to Matthew 12:43 that is where evil spirits wander. They are carried aside by winds, the same word for pneuma, spirit. This implies they are bond slaves to Satan. We are not talking about unbelievers, they are serving Satan. We are not talking about atheists, Satan worshippers consider atheists to be fools. Dana Coverstone had several dreams of wolves that had snuck into the church sitting among the congregation, this is what we are talking about. Also this is different from believers, the Bible says the spirit is subject to the prophet, but in this case the wind is not subject to the clouds, they are slaves to that wind.

Christmas is a good example of a "false promise". It seems they are promising love, joy, peace, when in reality you become a slave to the season. The spirit is not subject to you, rather you are subject to the spirit.

Compare this with the Lord who will come with the clouds, filled with blessing. The believers are sources of living water out from whom will flow the water of life.

Barren profession

Trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots -- the term is autumn trees, the implication is that we will really see them at the end of the season. Jude is the 'vestibule' to the book of Revelation. We see these apostates more now than we ever did during the entire church age. To me this is like field mice. During the summer they may be outside but when it gets cold they will all try to enter the house. in the same way as the Day of the Lord approaches they are all flooding the church buildings. Dana Coverstone has a dream about this with this Satanic figure whipping up all these wolves into a frenzy and sending them into the church buildings. Twice dead refers to dead to profession and possession. They have not born fruit from their profession of faith and they are rooted up, they have no possession, so they are dead in that sense too (no eternal salvation). Revelation 20:14 speaks of the second death. We are told repeatedly in the Bible that we should not be fearing the first death, it is the second death we should be concerned about. The first death is simply separation of soul and body, but the second death would be on the soul. Everyone must deal with these two, our "second death" was taken care of at the cross. These ones do not receive the work of redemption done by Christ on the cross. Compare these trees to trees planted by the living water.

Everyone hopes that this is an opportunity for the gospel. How has that worked out for you? I would say the damage of the church compromising with the world is far greater than any gain that you might think you got.

Compare this with the tree of life. The believers are trees of righteousness (Isaiah 61:3)

Wasted effort

Raging waves of the sea foaming out their shame. This indicates they are unsaved, they do not know God. Isaiah 57:20-21. We need to know who we are in Christ. God has imposed limits on the sea, He said nothing shall hurt you, all are to account to His glory, and the Lord rules and stills the sea. In the gospels Jesus rebuked the sea. In Revelation 21:1 there was no more sea.

How much effort goes into this Christmas celebration every year that is a waste? For some believers maybe none, but for many people it is a lot. Why do you think some people get totally burnt out from this holiday.

Compare this with the Lord who leads us besides still waters and the believers who have "peace like a river".

Aimless course

Wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. The phrase implies a meteorite. Flashes brilliantly for a brief time and then makes an ash of itself. Destined for the blackness of the outer darkness forever. It seems amazing that in nature we actually have something that appears to illustrate this, a black hole, a place where the gravity is so great that even light cannot leave. You can't see a black hole but you can detect them due to gravity. It is also believed that within them time does not exist. These guys are destined for black holes.

What kind of Holy day is marked by an increase in suicides and death?

Compare them with the bright and morning star and the believers who will "shine as stars forever" Daniel 12:3

This is the point of this thread. We see this entire contrast in the celebration of Christmas. We see this amazing contrast between the Lord Jesus and the apostasy. This is God's sovereignty, God's mercy that we might be saved and come to the full knowledge of His Son, Jesus Christ.

One last point, there are 8 writers in the New Testament: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter and Jude. Of these 8 writers Jude wrote the fewest verses and John and Paul and Luke wrote the most. However, each of these 8 writers used exactly 42 words that were unique to their writings and are not found anywhere else! Jude concentrates those 42 unique words into such a tiny space it is amazing.

 

[ZNP]

Enoch's prophecy concerning the Lord's 2nd Coming

Jude 14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Who are the them? The apostates. What we are looking at is probably the oldest recorded words of a prophet are these words of Enoch. There is a prophecy in Genesis 3 but that is spoken by God. This prophecy comes from the book of Enoch which is an apocryphal book. This book is not part of scripture though this prophecy is thanks to Jude. Some people don't understand what it means to not be part of scripture. That does not mean it is not a real prophecy from God, what it means is that it is not part of our covenant with God. The Bible is our legal document, our covenant with God. Our God honors covenants so you can be sure He would never say one word that violates this covenant. However, that does not mean He will not say any word that is not in the covenant, God speaks to us all the time and the Bible makes it clear that He is free to do so. Also the Bible is very, very clear on the fact that Enoch was a prophet, he had a genuine experience of God, and His prophecy is an authentic word of God. That said there are counterfeits to the book of Enoch.

Peter said Noah was a preacher of righteousness, we did not learn that in the OT, Paul names the two magicians in Egypt, that also is not in the OT. There are words of the Lord Jesus Christ quoted in Acts that are not recorded in the gospels. James tells us that Elijah prayed for the drought, we did not learn this in the OT. There are a bunch of other things in Acts 7 from Stephen.

Genesis 4:26 "then began men to call on the name of the Lord". This is a poor translation, what it literally says is "then they began to call something else by the name of the Lord". It is a reference to idolatry, to profaning the name of the Lord. The Targum of Onkelos says they "desisted from praying in the name". The Targum of Jonathan says "Surnamed their idols in the name". Ancient Jewish scholars including Jerome agree with this. Maimonides in the Commentary on the Mishna ascribes the origin of idolatry to the days of Enos. What this tells us is that by the end of Genesis 4 we have rebellion against God, the beginning of apostasy. There are four words for man: Adam (dust of ground), Ish (sex, male), Geber (a mighty man) and Enosh (mortal man or if we are talking about character it means a loser). Genesis 4 tells us we have a man that is a loser and that is when they begin to get involved in idolatry. It is this context which gives rise to a prophet (Enoch) and a preacher of righteousness (Noah) and ultimately judgement. His son Methuselah was a prophecy. He prophesied of the coming judgement. Noah and Lot go through the judgement and depict the church going through the tribulation. Enoch depicts the raptured saints prior to the tribulation. Also note that Enoch was not Jewish so he depicts the believers in Christ who are raptured. The Bible says Enoch walked with God twice and between the two there are are 300 years. This is a lifetime of walking with God. How can two walk together unless they are in agreement? Amos 3:3. This leads to a witness. Even today we are looking at Enoch's words. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him (Col 2:6).

Methuselah means "when he dies it shall be sent" and the "it" refers to the judgement on the Earth. Methuselah died seven days before the flood. Enoch means teaching, initiation, commencement. Becomes a model of grace and longsuffering, which is why Methuselah is the longest lifetime. It is finite. He walked with God after he begat Methuselah.

Enoch's prophecy concerning the Lord's second coming

This is not about the first coming but the second coming. This coming is sure because it is written as history, it is past, it is sure, you can't change it. This is not conditional. We also know who will accompany Him. He will come with "His Holy myriads". Not clear whether or not this means angels but we do know this expression includes the angels. I suspect it means (Col 3:4 and 1Thess 3:13) both angels and saints together. Both the first prophecy from Enoch and the last prophecy in Revelation both say that He will come to bring judgment. He will judge all, everyone, men, angels and demons.

Deeds

All the ungodly will be convicted of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in their ungodliness.

Here the issue is the motive of your heart. Consider Christmas, if you thought all the various things you were doing was a way to celebrate the Lord's birth the Lord will consider that. On the other hand if you were Balak or Balaam and thought that what you were doing would cause God's people to be cursed because they are eating things offered to idols and committing fornication then God will consider that as well.

Words

of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rebellious, arrogant mouth. This is the distinguishing characteristic of the Antichrist, Mr. Big Mouth. Think about this, you may have repeated the Santa Claus story because you were taught it by people you trust. God will consider that. On the other hand you may have crafted this lie as a deception and to set yourself up to be worshipped as a counterfeit to God. If that is the case God will consider that as well.

For example let's consider the defiant words of ungodly sinners spoken against Noah's ark. They mock, ridicule and present this story as an absurd myth that only little children would believe like the Santa Claus story. But read Genesis 6:14 Noah sealed the ark inside and out with pitch. Generally anyone making a boat would seal the outside so it is water tight, you would not seal the inside. There is no valid reason to seal it on the inside as far as the flood is concerned, it is a waste of time, of pitch, and also would stink up the inside of the ark. However, if your goal was to preserve this ark for the last generation as a testimony against them and of all the defiant words spoken against God then it does make sense. Also, why have it come to rest on the top of Mt. Ararat where it is frozen year round? Again to preserve it. When Noah came off the ark they had to do down the mountain, they couldn't live on top of the mountain. If this had come to rest in the valley they would have cannibalized the boat using the lumber for a house or using the boat for a barn, etc. The ark has been preserved as a testimony against this ungodly generation. We have found it and now consider all that this implies! Everything about that story was true including the coming judgement and the fact that the Lord's second return will be "as the days of Noah".

Now consider something else, during the tribulation everyone will be required to worship the image of the beast or else get their head chopped off. This is a test. How do you prepare for this test? How would you "train" as a Christian to stand against this forced worship of an idol set up by the world? Hallelujah, God has given us the celebration of Christmas with all its idols kind of like having a gym where we can lift weights to prepare for the tribulation! It is a lot easier to reject the worship of the Christmas tree and Santa Claus but the concept is the same. Take the mark of the beast or else you won't get any presents, you can't buy or sell.

In conclusion from day 1 with Enoch he is prophesying of the Lord's second coming and His judgement on the apostasy and all the ungodly. He is raptured first, and then the judgement comes. In the same way we see these two things in the celebration of Christmas with the celebration of the birth of this manchild followed by the reign of the fat man in the red suit. AntiChrist's reign comes like a thief in the night, sneaking into your house like the lawless one filled with lying wonders.

"And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day" Amos 8:10

Religious feast that has songs -- is this Christmas? A religious feast where everyone has on new clothes -- are we talking about Christmas? Mourning of an only son, sounds like the day after celebrating the birth of Jesus!

 

[SueAnn]

if you really want to see what is going on, check out the wormwood thread

it will become clearer

Hello Sophie, I am new here and just learning to navigate. could you provide a link to the wormwood thread, please?

 

[gb9]

Enoch's prophecy concerning the Lord's 2nd Coming

Jude 14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Who are the them? The apostates. What we are looking at is probably the oldest recorded words of a prophet are these words of Enoch. There is a prophecy in Genesis 3 but that is spoken by God. This prophecy comes from the book of Enoch which is an apocryphal book. This book is not part of scripture though this prophecy is thanks to Jude. Some people don't understand what it means to not be part of scripture. That does not mean it is not a real prophecy from God, what it means is that it is not part of our covenant with God. The Bible is our legal document, our covenant with God. Our God honors covenants so you can be sure He would never say one word that violates this covenant. However, that does not mean He will not say any word that is not in the covenant, God speaks to us all the time and the Bible makes it clear that He is free to do so. Also the Bible is very, very clear on the fact that Enoch was a prophet, he had a genuine experience of God, and His prophecy is an authentic word of God. That said there are counterfeits to the book of Enoch.

Peter said Noah was a preacher of righteousness, we did not learn that in the OT, Paul names the two magicians in Egypt, that also is not in the OT. There are words of the Lord Jesus Christ quoted in Acts that are not recorded in the gospels. James tells us that Elijah prayed for the drought, we did not learn this in the OT. There are a bunch of other things in Acts 7 from Stephen.

Genesis 4:26 "then began men to call on the name of the Lord". This is a poor translation, what it literally says is "then they began to call something else by the name of the Lord". It is a reference to idolatry, to profaning the name of the Lord. The Targum of Onkelos says they "desisted from praying in the name". The Targum of Jonathan says "Surnamed their idols in the name". Ancient Jewish scholars including Jerome agree with this. Maimonides in the Commentary on the Mishna ascribes the origin of idolatry to the days of Enos. What this tells us is that by the end of Genesis 4 we have rebellion against God, the beginning of apostasy. There are four words for man: Adam (dust of ground), Ish (sex, male), Geber (a mighty man) and Enosh (mortal man or if we are talking about character it means a loser). Genesis 4 tells us we have a man that is a loser and that is when they begin to get involved in idolatry. It is this context which gives rise to a prophet (Enoch) and a preacher of righteousness (Noah) and ultimately judgement. His son Methuselah was a prophecy. He prophesied of the coming judgement. Noah and Lot go through the judgement and depict the church going through the tribulation. Enoch depicts the raptured saints prior to the tribulation. Also note that Enoch was not Jewish so he depicts the believers in Christ who are raptured. The Bible says Enoch walked with God twice and between the two there are are 300 years. This is a lifetime of walking with God. How can two walk together unless they are in agreement? Amos 3:3. This leads to a witness. Even today we are looking at Enoch's words. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him (Col 2:6).

Methuselah means "when he dies it shall be sent" and the "it" refers to the judgement on the Earth. Methuselah died seven days before the flood. Enoch means teaching, initiation, commencement. Becomes a model of grace and longsuffering, which is why Methuselah is the longest lifetime. It is finite. He walked with God after he begat Methuselah.

Enoch's prophecy concerning the Lord's second coming

This is not about the first coming but the second coming. This coming is sure because it is written as history, it is past, it is sure, you can't change it. This is not conditional. We also know who will accompany Him. He will come with "His Holy myriads". Not clear whether or not this means angels but we do know this expression includes the angels. I suspect it means (Col 3:4 and 1Thess 3:13) both angels and saints together. Both the first prophecy from Enoch and the last prophecy in Revelation both say that He will come to bring judgment. He will judge all, everyone, men, angels and demons.

Deeds

All the ungodly will be convicted of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in their ungodliness.

Here the issue is the motive of your heart. Consider Christmas, if you thought all the various things you were doing was a way to celebrate the Lord's birth the Lord will consider that. On the other hand if you were Balak or Balaam and thought that what you were doing would cause God's people to be cursed because they are eating things offered to idols and committing fornication then God will consider that as well.

Words

of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rebellious, arrogant mouth. This is the distinguishing characteristic of the Antichrist, Mr. Big Mouth. Think about this, you may have repeated the Santa Claus story because you were taught it by people you trust. God will consider that. On the other hand you may have crafted this lie as a deception and to set yourself up to be worshipped as a counterfeit to God. If that is the case God will consider that as well.

For example let's consider the defiant words of ungodly sinners spoken against Noah's ark. They mock, ridicule and present this story as an absurd myth that only little children would believe like the Santa Claus story. But read Genesis 6:14 Noah sealed the ark inside and out with pitch. Generally anyone making a boat would seal the outside so it is water tight, you would not seal the inside. There is no valid reason to seal it on the inside as far as the flood is concerned, it is a waste of time, of pitch, and also would stink up the inside of the ark. However, if your goal was to preserve this ark for the last generation as a testimony against them and of all the defiant words spoken against God then it does make sense. Also, why have it come to rest on the top of Mt. Ararat where it is frozen year round? Again to preserve it. When Noah came off the ark they had to do down the mountain, they couldn't live on top of the mountain. If this had come to rest in the valley they would have cannibalized the boat using the lumber for a house or using the boat for a barn, etc. The ark has been preserved as a testimony against this ungodly generation. We have found it and now consider all that this implies! Everything about that story was true including the coming judgement and the fact that the Lord's second return will be "as the days of Noah".

Now consider something else, during the tribulation everyone will be required to worship the image of the beast or else get their head chopped off. This is a test. How do you prepare for this test? How would you "train" as a Christian to stand against this forced worship of an idol set up by the world? Hallelujah, God has given us the celebration of Christmas with all its idols kind of like having a gym where we can lift weights to prepare for the tribulation! It is a lot easier to reject the worship of the Christmas tree and Santa Claus but the concept is the same. Take the mark of the beast or else you won't get any presents, you can't buy or sell.

In conclusion from day 1 with Enoch he is prophesying of the Lord's second coming and His judgement on the apostasy and all the ungodly. He is raptured first, and then the judgement comes. In the same way we see these two things in the celebration of Christmas with the celebration of the birth of this manchild followed by the reign of the fat man in the red suit. AntiChrist's reign comes like a thief in the night, sneaking into your house like the lawless one filled with lying wonders.

"And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day" Amos 8:10

Religious feast that has songs -- is this Christmas? A religious feast where everyone has on new clothes -- are we talking about Christmas? Mourning of an only son, sounds like the day after celebrating the birth of Jesus!

when all else fails, pull out 1st Enoch......

 

[ZNP]

How to identify an apostate

Jude 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

They are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts. This refers back to Israel who murmured against God, to the angels who complained about their assigned place, and Sodom and Gomorrah walking after their own lusts. Think about how general this is "murmurers". We think this is trivial but what does the Bible say? Give thanks for all things. We need to see that all things are a blessing from God to those who love God and are called according to purpose. This is the noun form, it is not found anywhere else in the New Testament. The verb form is found elsewhere but not the noun form. This is not a reference to an individual incident of murmuring. Rather you murmur so much it becomes who or what you are. Why were they murmuring, because they lacked faith. If they were filled with faith they would have been like Joshua and Caleb, but rather than confess and repent for their lack of faith they murmur against God as though it is his fault. There is no accountability. This is just like Cain. He didn't listen to God, as a result he didn't have faith, his plan was to please God with his own works, when that fell short he didn't take responsibility rather it was God's fault for preferring Abel's sacrifice and Abel was going to pay for that.

The same is true of those who complain about their assigned place, you are lacking an appreciation for the sovereignty of God. Think about Paul's word I have learned to be content in whatever situation he is in. Instead of complaining learn about how you can do all things in Him. Again, this word as a noun is only found in Jude. Paul says "be angry and sin not". To have an issue with something is OK. Jesus said that if you have an issue with a brother talk to him privately and try to resolve it. It is OK to be offended at someone for some offense. But some people it is not that they complain but rather they are "complainers". This is who they are, this is what they do, there is no resolution, rather they are continual fault finders. The Pharisees found fault with the Lord making their traditions higher than the word of God. Lawyers are trained fault finders. It doesn't matter who the witness is, or how solid the evidence is, they will find fault, that is their job. Fault finding is a valid practice when examining some new strategy or plan. Let's see if we can spot any issue before we implement this. However, if this is who you are all the time this is no longer an action you take occasionally when the need arises but rather it is who you are. It is like a car that has an ships anchor tied to the bumper and is dragging it along behind it. You are this anchor. For example, suppose I am on a football team, I am the tight end, but I would much rather be the quarterback. So what I do is I constantly complain. I complain about the play call. I complain about the quarterback if there is an incomplete pass. I complain if there is a complete pass for five yards saying there was someone else open for ten yards. My complaining is not constructive criticism, rather I complain constantly because I am not satisfied being the tight end, I want to be the quarterback. This is what Jude is talking about. We have many members of the body, everyone has a function, do not envy the other person simply focus on the Lord so that you can grow in the Lord. This is what Balaam did, he wasn't satisfied being a poor prophet. He wanted to be a rich, important prophet with a house filled with gold and silver. We saw this during the election, for example the Republicans did not "respect the science" yet when the Democrats are in power they completely ignore data, science, and all reason. Biden said that all the people who died under Trump should be reason enough to get rid of him as unfit for office. However, more people have died under Biden and now it is all about changing the subject.

This is a process, Cain is the on ramp to the highway, Balaam is rushing headlong down the highway and Korah goes plunging off into the abyss from the highway. Why did Korah rebel? Moses word was convicting him. He wanted to walk according to his own lusts and the word from Moses was shining a light on that and exposing him. So like Cain there is no accountability, someone else will pay for his sins. Like Balaam he is not satisfied with his place, he is jealous of Moses and instead of saying "I want to be leader" he says "everyone is holy". It is a slimy kind of hypocrisy. The world church says the same thing, we are all holy, brotherhood of man. Yet the Pope plans on being the leader and since the Evangelical Christians reject him he also rejects them from his "brotherhood of man". Ultimately this leads to rebellion, who made Jesus lord, I will do as I please. This is why scoffers scoff. When they passed the LGBTQ laws I argued that letting boys into the girls bathroom would result in fornication and rape in the bathroom. Wow, I got attacked from the scoffers yet a few months later that is precisely what happened. When they said that boys could compete as girls if they "identified as girls" I said they would take over girls sports. Again, the attack I got from the scoffers. That was absurd, the trans movement is pure as the driven snow. I said that a college scholarship can be worth $300,000 don't you think that some boys who cannot make the boys team will identify as a girl to get that scholarship? Oh, no, no, no that is a lie. Well here we are a few months later and it couldn't be any clearer that it is the truth.

They speak great swelling words -- this is what the antichrist does. This is like the words of the song

"I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocketful of mumbles
Such are promises
All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest"

I was stunned at how many people liked what Biden was saying during the campaign even though it was so transparently a lie. The only bills Biden had ever been associated with were a catastrophe and were the most racists bills around. You could find multiple quotes by him that were as racist as they come. He claimed he had 30 years of foreign policy experience and would do a better job than Trump who had kept us out of a war and brokered a peace treaty with Israel which everyone else thought would be impossible. Yet when you looked at that 30 years of experience it was nothing but a dismal failure. The reason these ones speak "great swelling words of vanity" is because people listen to it and fall for it.

I think it was Mike Tyson who said everyone talks a big game until they get punched in the nose.

And flatter others for their personal advantage.

This is how people play politics to advance in an organization. When you see this in the church you know you have the apostasy. Think of the church like a football team or basketball team. No one thinks Tom Brady is any good but year after year, game after game he proves that he is until no one can deny it. You don't do that by playing politics and flattering others, you do that on the field. Likewise with Michael Jordan, you can see who is real and who isn't. This is how it should be in the church, we may have some member who no one thinks has a gift but if it is manifested everyone should be able to see it and appreciate it. Likewise we can have another member who advances in the church due to everything but the Holy Spirit. If that is the case you have the apostasy.

 

[BroTan]

It is as if some men got together and said they knew what to celebrate, God is too dumb to know!

The seven feasts celebrates God's plan for our salvation right up through the end of this world. When Christ was crucified and died for us we were given eternal life. When Christ was born he fist lived simply as a carpenter. What we can celebrate about his earthly life was telling us how to live in the kingdom of heaven.

I wonder if people really understand how great eternal life is--they praise a person for saving an earthly life and our life here is just temporary. This is saving a life for eternity.

We thumb our noses at God's orders to celebrate salvation yet we spend many dollars on giving each other an earthly thrill of owning some material THING and call it a religious celebration.

Well...The word says in Revelation 12: 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And this is the deepness of it, people are deceive into this. Which means me, you and everyone else has been deceive at some point for the scriptures did not say he deceive some of the world, or part of the world, but the whole world. Let's take a look and see how Satan used his power with these kingdoms. Let's go into Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. This places are the church, brothers and sisters. Let's go into Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? 53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Did you notice it was the church people who came to arrest Jesus? They did the bidding for there "father" the Devil. I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it (John 8:37-44)

 

[ZNP]

Protecting yourself from the Apostasy

17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

The first sixteen verses hit the apostasy very hard, now Jude turns to the saints. The first thing he does is to tell them to remember the word of the apostles. This epistle has hit the Old Testament, both the history and the prophecy as well as the spiritual books from the saints that are not in the Old Testament and now he turns to the New Testament Apostles. All of these words can help you set your mind on the spirit. Every word of God is profitable for instruction. In particular the words of the apostles are the protection against apostasy. You can't remember them if you don't know them and you will not know them if you don't read them, study them, and meditate on them. The word of God is not according to natural wisdom. God's thoughts are not our thoughts. We need a renewed mind and we will only get that through the transformation of the Spirit. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the apostates but to us it is the wisdom of God. That is because we are saved through the cross and this indicates the apostates do not know God's salvation through the cross. Paul warned that grievous wolves would come in and not spare the flock. Wolves are not sheep. Paul also said that men would arise from among the church speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them. There are Christian cults and they focus on members of Christ's body, they don't go after the unsaved. These cults are built around an exaggerated truth and they do not embrace the whole counsel of God. The epistle to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, representing the apostolic church, appears to have been faithful to Paul's admonition. They try those who claim to be apostles and are able to determine the false ones. However, they had left their first love. Doctrinally sound but without love, the first love that they had for the Lord. This is how the apostasy operates, get you unbalanced. Scoffers can be very insulting, if you descend to their level all of a sudden you find yourself having left your first love. When they walk according to their own lusts you can become quite offended, but be careful, remember the admonition "hate the sin, love the sinner". Our first love is the Lord who came to call all men to repentance. The Lord gave Himself that all men might be saved. So then how do we respond? First we listen to the Lord and learn from Him. Everything we endure He endured. Second we obey Him, we don't run after our own desires. The process of transformation involves the Lord revealing if we are otherwise minded in anything and the reality is we are otherwise minded in many things. Third, we need to be content with our station. You don't need a title, or a position to speak the word of God. All things that have come into being have come into being through the word of God. If you have that faith then the word you speak can be very powerful even if you are nothing and no one. Now, if you can follow with these steps you will enter into the spiritual warfare and will then learn we are a corporate body. If you are divided, separated out from the body you can become prey. I have seen 20 hyenas surround a full grown male lion and if it were not for other lions coming to his aid they would have killed him. Someone who is truly knit into the Body would not murmur against the brothers and sisters because they would realize they are often his salvation as they have his back. Then you see that the warfare is like an army, each person is fitly framed in the body, uniquely positioned to help in the warfare. Instead of complaining about your position you come to appreciate the role all of your brothers and sisters play. Only then can the church truly be the city of God. This is why Satan's strategy is to make factions, divide the body. A heresy is a school of thought, just like all the various denominations and cults. Each one has their own special teaching in order to divide the saints. These doctrines come from them following their natural wisdom rather than the wisdom which is from above. Now this will actually help you grow in grace. It may sound strange but remember Paul says to "give thanks for all things" and that includes these heresies. The way I understand this I like to illustrate with Michael Jordan. When he came into the NBA he was a very gifted scorer and dominated the league in scoring. As a result teams put their best defender on him, and since that didn't work they began to design their entire defense to stop him. The Pistons had something called "the Jordan rules". They were brutal, eventually the league changed many of the rules because of that, but this made Jordan a better player. Everyday he was being tutored by the very best in the NBA on how to play defense. After a little while he became one of the very best defenders in the league. To have a guy that was dominating on both ends of the court was very unique. But even so they were unable to beat the Pistons, forcing him and the whole team to hit the weight room. He had been quick and agile, but now he added strong as well. He could play against the LA Lakers and the NY Knicks. He could play fast paced game of the Lakers and the half court game of the Celtics. But he still needed to improve his game even more because teams double teamed him during the 4th quarter and he famously passed to Paxson in the fourth quarter because they were leaving him open and so after making himself a fully rounded player he learned to add assists to his arsenal and to trust his teammates. He didn't need the preeminence. When Phil Jackson became the coach he instituted a strategy that took the ball out of his hand and resulted in him scoring fewer points. However, it also made it very difficult for teams to double team Jordan without paying the price. This is how I understand Pauls word that it is necessary for there to be heresies so that those who are approved would be manifested. Think about the result. Several of the other players also became hall of fame players. Pippen had an extraordinary career, looking at his stats he was a truly all time great player. Would that have been the case without Jordan as a teammate? He still would have been great but maybe would not have ever won a championship. What about Rodman? His career had hit the rocks when the Bulls picked him up. I don't know if he would have been hall of fame if he hadn't gone to the Bulls. He was great with the Pistons but with the Bulls he was a champion and a hall of famer. The apostasy divides us, the Spirit knits us together. The apostasy is based on human intellect and thought, the Spirit lifts us to a higher plane. The apostasy is soulish, the true church is spiritual. To be soulish is to be self conscious, to be spiritual is to be God conscious. The apostasy is the natural man, the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. For example, a hologram is a technique where we can create a 3 dimensional image and put all the information on a 2 dimensional sheet. If you look at it with your natural eyes it is foggy, not clear. But if you illuminate it with lasers designed to see it then you will get this dramatic 3 dimensional image. In the same way the natural man can only create two dimensional images but if you are in the spirit you will be getting these three dimensional holograms. This is why those in the apostasy see the Bible as myths, old stories that are no longer relevant, etc. They are looking at the Bible with natural eyes and the Bible can only be seen properly with the Spirit. When you look at the Bible with the Spirit the image of Christ will be alive.

Believers have the spirit. These ones may be on a very high plane naturally but they don't have the spirit, so they are not saved. They receive not the things of God for they are foolishness to them. Let's spend a 100 years to build a boat to save 8 people. Let's defeat this army with the jawbone of an ass. Or how about this one, some carpenter's son is crucified 1900 years ago and as a result the entire universe is redeemed.