Christmas tree -- vestige from Babylonian worship

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
We're not talking about Easter. We are talking about Christmas. What Catholics do is between them and God.
I quoted Revelation 2 and those verses are not specific to Christmas. Historically both Christmas and Easter were adopted by this mixed marriage church. I am not interested in laying out the case for Christmas and Easter and many other practices being mixed with idolatry. Nor am i interested in having the thread hijacked by those who are desperate to say that this is not idol worship. You put gifts under an idol so that they are blessed by the idol. That is the altar to the idol.

However, even though I am not interested in this you obviously are so I will find some informative videos and post them for you.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
We're not talking about Halloween. We're calling you out on the hypocrisy of giving Christmas presents which has nothing to do with Christs birth. Correct?
I have said repeatedly I do not judge anyone on whether or not they celebrate Christmas. As for me and my house we don't bring that tree into the house, nor do we have anything to do with Santa or the witchcraft mythology around this.

That said I enjoy celebrating the Lord's incarnation and birth. I enjoy singing hymns like Joy to the world and Hark the Herald Angels sing.

You are the one who is judging others because they will not partake in the pagan worship and idolatry.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,183
3,168
113
most likely deadbeat dads. If you ask them did they ever get a Christmas gift from their Mother & father they will say yes? Ask them did that experience, cause them to worship the devil? No. I bet the poster of this thread has Christmas TREE and is buying gifts for their family LOL
Please provide me with the verse why I am a "deadbeat dad" for not buying Christmas Presents :ROFL:

The fact is Christmas is not a Christian holiday and we can sugarcoat it with all the bells and whistles. If it brings you closer to God, go for it. I know what my Bible teach me about manmade feast days so for me and my house, we will not do it.

Did I partake in this when I was a child? Yes of course.
Did my son partake in it? When I didn't know the truth, yes of course.

But since I know the truth I can now safely say "no more trees for me". If we get to my family still in religion I don't start preaching and burning their tree. How silly. We enjoy the day. Thank my family and go home. Just like I enjoyed your silly remark, gave you my opinion (as you clearly gave us yours) and now I am out of here.

Be blessed this December and enjoy the time with your families. I have a feeling that this might be the last peaceful one we will have for a while and I will be glad to be wrong comes December 2022.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I quoted Revelation 2 and those verses are not specific to Christmas. Historically both Christmas and Easter were adopted by this mixed marriage church. I am not interested in laying out the case for Christmas and Easter and many other practices being mixed with idolatry. Nor am i interested in having the thread hijacked by those who are desperate to say that this is not idol worship. You put gifts under an idol so that they are blessed by the idol. That is the altar to the idol.

However, even though I am not interested in this you obviously are so I will find some informative videos and post them for you.
Ahh, so when the spot light is shone on you you refuse to answer. Not that I'm surprised. Now let's try again. How is your buying Christmas presents part of Christs birth? Skip the videos thanks and answer the question.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,183
3,168
113
We're not talking about Easter. We are talking about Christmas. What Catholics do is between them and God.
Hi my friend, so glad to see you are still around.

We can discuss this all we like but I fear that there are people (on both sides) with an attitude of I am right and you are wrong. Maybe we should rather trust God to show us the truth. If He is okay with it, confirm it Lord. If not, confirm it Lord.

Be blessed :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,189
13,168
113
In the night "Santa" (anagram for Satan,

“Santa” is Latin for ‘saint’, while “satan” is Hebrew for ‘accuser’. Neither is a name, per se. There is no relationship between them at all, other than that they happen to use the same letters. You assertion is empty.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,183
3,168
113
Ahh, so when the spot light is shone on you you refuse to answer. Not that I'm surprised. Now let's try again. How is your buying Christmas presents part of Christs birth? Skip the videos thanks and answer the question.
I buy my son two wrapped gifts every year. One on his birthday and one after he finished school early December :) he usually plays with his toys looong before his cousins :ROFL:
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
Ahh, so when the spot light is shone on you you refuse to answer. Not that I'm surprised. Now let's try again. How is your buying Christmas presents part of Christs birth? Skip the videos thanks and answer the question.
My kids grow up surrounded by this. I don't want my kids to think that our belief in God is a simple excuse to not give them presents. I teach them that Santa is a type of Satan, that the lie about Santa is part of the great delusion so that the kids who are deceived by this will associate this deception with the Bible and with the rapture.

However, I also teach them about Christ's birth, we sing the various hymns, we read the stories in Luke and we celebrate Christ's birth.

When there are sales on Black Friday I have taken advantage of them to buy things like cell phones. At this time of year I will buy new winter clothes and sweaters. However, I see no reason to wait until the 25th to give them to the kids, that seems stupid to me. So my kids, like other kids have nice new clothes to wear, they have other things that I think are necessary. Many of the things we get we do so after the 25th to take advantage of those sales.

There is absolutely nothing given to the idol, no tree, no cookies, no stockings, no lies about the present being from Santa, and no respect given to the 25th.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I have said repeatedly I do not judge anyone on whether or not they celebrate Christmas. As for me and my house we don't bring that tree into the house, nor do we have anything to do with Santa or the witchcraft mythology around this.

That said I enjoy celebrating the Lord's incarnation and birth. I enjoy singing hymns like Joy to the world and Hark the Herald Angels sing.

You are the one who is judging others because they will not partake in the pagan worship and idolatry.
It has nothing to do with idolatry. You are still taking part in the Christmas season. You are buying Christmas gifts. I could care less if you have a tree, an entire forest, or nothing of wood in your house at all. What I don't like is legalists that twist Scripture to make themselves look holy and judge other people. I would sin like you sin with that thing in my house, I don't idol worship like you do, I'm not a sinner like you are. There are new Christians here that listen to this foolishness. You take part in Christmas. You don't want a tree, who cares? But when you throw shade saying " I don't sin like you sin", then say "it's a matter of your conscience, you're talking out two sides of your mouth, as legalists do. Look how happy you were to seize on Halloween and accuse me, when I made a comparison and said nothing at all about my own beliefs. smh
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
“Santa” is Latin for ‘saint’, while “satan” is Hebrew for ‘accuser’. Neither is a name, per se. There is no relationship between them at all, other than that they happen to use the same letters. You assertion is empty.
My assertion is that Santa is an anagram for Satan.

Anagram -- a word, phrase, or name formed by rearranging the letters of another

Since you admit that is the case your post is both hilarious and idiotic. Thank you for the laugh.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
It has nothing to do with idolatry. You are still taking part in the Christmas season. You are buying Christmas gifts. I could care less if you have a tree, an entire forest, or nothing of wood in your house at all. What I don't like is legalists that twist Scripture to make themselves look holy and judge other people. I would sin like you sin with that thing in my house, I don't idol worship like you do, I'm not a sinner like you are. There are new Christians here that listen to this foolishness. You take part in Christmas. You don't want a tree, who cares? But when you throw shade saying " I don't sin like you sin", then say "it's a matter of your conscience, you're talking out two sides of your mouth, as legalists do. Look how happy you were to seize on Halloween and accuse me, when I made a comparison and said nothing at all about my own beliefs. smh
In Post #157 you said "That's like going around the neighborhood for candy on Halloween and saying you're not trick or treating. You are taking part and celebrating the holiday like the rest of us."

I was responding to that. You were the one who said you celebrated Halloween.

Once again i will repeat, what you do is between you and the Lord. If He gives you the life and peace to bring that tree in, and tell your kids lies about a big red elf, that is between you and Him.

What I do is based on what the Lord has given me the life and peace to do.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
Do not base your faith on what others do.

Everyone of us must stand before the Lord based on the NT and the fellowship of the apostles. That is our covenant.

If someone does or does not celebrate Christmas that has nothing do with your judgement.

When you appear before the Lord if you say "but Lord so and so did this" He will simply say "I never knew you".
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
Thank you!

Thank you for all those who have participated so far in this thread. It is amazing to me that we already have 172 posts after such a short period of time. I know that by you participating you put this thread back up at the top and bring it to the attention of anyone else on the forum who may not have visited the thread.

So whether or not anyone is reading your posts they still help the thread, so thank you for that.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
My kids grow up surrounded by this. I don't want my kids to think that our belief in God is a simple excuse to not give them presents. I teach them that Santa is a type of Satan, that the lie about Santa is part of the great delusion so that the kids who are deceived by this will associate this deception with the Bible and with the rapture.

However, I also teach them about Christ's birth, we sing the various hymns, we read the stories in Luke and we celebrate Christ's birth.

When there are sales on Black Friday I have taken advantage of them to buy things like cell phones. At this time of year I will buy new winter clothes and sweaters. However, I see no reason to wait until the 25th to give them to the kids, that seems stupid to me. So my kids, like other kids have nice new clothes to wear, they have other things that I think are necessary. Many of the things we get we do so after the 25th to take advantage of those sales.

There is absolutely nothing given to the idol, no tree, no cookies, no stockings, no lies about the present being from Santa, and no respect given to the 25th.
10 Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel. 2 This is what the Lord says:

“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”



8 They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols.
9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish
and gold from Uphaz.
What the craftsman and goldsmith have made
is then dressed in blue and purple—
all made by skilled workers.



14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge;
every goldsmith is shamed by his idols.
The images he makes are a fraud;
they have no breath in them.

15 They are worthless, the objects of mockery;
when their judgment comes, they will perish.
.

Is 44: 14
14 He cuts down cedars, or he chooses a cypress tree or an oak and lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest. He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it. 15 Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it. 16 Half of it he burns in the fire. Over the half he eats meat; he roasts it and is satisfied. Also he warms himself and says, “Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire!” 17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, his idol, and falls down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says, “Deliver me, for you are my god!”



So this is very much about reading apprehension and common sense. Easily disproved that a Christmas tree is being spoken of here. There are two types of Christmas trees, one you get at the store, or you go cut one down, or perhaps you go to a lot. When you bring whichever tree home, you stick it up in a corner of your house. You do not have "a skilled goldsmith or craftsman" make it into something else.

Goldsmith is a person who forges things out of gold, (perhaps covers things in gold)

Craftsman a skilled manual worker who makes items that may be functional or strictly decorative.

Both of them make and craft items. They take an item and change it to something else. If I hire someone to build me a shed. They go into the forest to get the trees and start making a shed. No, they do not. Something happens between the time the tree is taken from the forest and it ends up at Lowes. A skilled craftsman, just like the Bible says, crafts the tree into something else. So together the goldsmith and the craftsman make the tree into an idol. How do we know what an idol is, what it is used for? The Bible tells us...

he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it.

He falls down before the idol he has "made", not the tree. The tree was the means to an end. The tree wasn't the idol, the tree was crafted/made into an idol. Very easy to understand. So he falls down before the "idol" that has been fashioned. The tree was used for 2 different things 1. for fuel 2. as an idol. So he falls down before the idol and then what?

he falls down to it and worships it...

Worship -the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Ok children let's follow along. The tree is taken from the forest, a craftsman makes it into an idol the goldsmith covers the idol in gold. The man falls down before the crafted idol and worships it as a DEITY. Step one, he gets a tree, step 2, he makes an idol his god 3. he falls down and worships it as a deity. And then what?


He prays to it and says, “Deliver me, for you are my god!”

He prays and talks to the idol, his god. He tells the idol " you are my god. " Then he makes a request of his god, deliver me! Not only does he fall down before it, he worships it, calls it his God and then makes requests of it, fully expecting it to answer! And Jer. says that like talking to a scarecrow and expecting it to speak. As we discuss and run through the verses we can see and understand that this in no way is talking about a Christmas tree. A Christmas tree is a decoration. In no way do these verses lend themselves into thinking a Christmas tree is an idol. A simple study of what the Word says, not what we wish it to say, bears this out. The tree is not an idol.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,189
13,168
113
My assertion is that Santa is an anagram for Satan.

Anagram -- a word, phrase, or name formed by rearranging the letters of another

Since you admit that is the case your post is both hilarious and idiotic. Thank you for the laugh.
Given that you are attempting to assert a connection between the two, and that the premise for this entire thread is false, the joke is on you.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
Jude -- A book dedicated to the apostasy

Jude 3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

2Thessalonians 2: 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,015
3,946
113
You're still doing it. You're still taking part in Christmas. You're still taking part in commercialism. Santa is a story told by Clement Clarke Moore. And I'm sure he never thought it would be such a sensation. It was pure silliness. Why do you care if you're called Scrooge. Be in or out. You're judging everyone else but you do everything but put up a tree. Where do you put presents, under the sofa? smh Makes no sense. You're just sinning a little bit. If you buy a gift for your kid for that specific day, yes its a Christmas present. That's like going around the neighborhood for candy on Halloween and saying you're not trick or treating. You are taking part and celebrating the holiday like the rest of us.

Yep, that makes one hypocrite or an is idol worship as he says :). Buying gifts is participating you don't have tree but you have Christmas gifts LOL
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
30,633
5,478
113
The Nazi's agreed that the Christmas tree came from their worship of Odin

Nazism wanted to transform the subjective consciousness of the German people—their attitudes, values and mentalities—into a single-minded, cohesive "national community".[2] According to the American journalist Shirer, "under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler—backed by Hitler— the Nazi regime intended to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists."[3]

Nazi ideologists claimed that the Christian elements of the holiday had been superimposed upon ancient Germanic traditions.[7] They argued that Christmas Eve originally had nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ, but instead celebrated the winter solstice and the 'rebirth of the sun',[7] that the swastika was an ancient symbol of the sun, and that Santa Claus was a Christian reinvention of the Germanic god Odin. Accordingly, holiday posters were made to depict Odin as the "Christmas or Solstice man", riding a white charger, sporting a thick grey beard and wearing a slouch hat, carrying a sack full of gifts. The traditional crèche was replaced by a garden containing wooden toy deer and rabbits; Mary and Jesus were depicted as a blonde mother and child.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_in_Nazi_Germany
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,015
3,946
113
The poster of this thread does not have a Christmas tree and yes I do buy gifts for my family, but you can be sure I have never once told them those gifts come from Santa, nor do I encourage my kids to watch the garbage they put out at this time about Santa.

However, Paul is very clear, don't let anyone judge you about keeping or not keeping a feast day. You continually try to say I am the one judging you when in fact it is you that are judging others. This is the "true spirit of Christmas" -- if you don't celebrate it then you are scrooge.

These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.

14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.


Merry Christmas and just because you don't have a tree you still are part of the Tradition of men by buying gifts
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,119
113
U.S.A.
This whole posting is utter nonsense!


An extreme fanaticism!
Who cares if you celebrate this holiday with all the lights and decor?
I certainly don't. I also don't care what people think of me Scrooge or not!

CAN YOU SET YOUR LIGHT ON A HILL, THEN COVER IT WITH A BUCKET.......😆😆😆😆😆😆

That hypocrisy........