Then those people are masters. I only know of One Master, in this sense Teacher, Yeshua. As for Mastering Sin, He is the only One capable of this in the flesh. He mastered it for me and all who believe Him. If you read what I have posted, you will find we agree on this. Do not look for young birds in old nests.
Christ's Gospel vs. Hebrew Roots
- Thread starter Praus
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M
Lol. If you are not purposefully being vague, you are doing a better job of it than I could if I were trying. Your posts don't really seem to address any of the issues raised, rather just point out a fact or two that are somewhat loosely related to what was said. It's kind of funny, but I don't think people will ever really understand if you agree with them or not if you keep posting that way. 
No offense intended.
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No offense intended.
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Please demonstrate how what I have posted here, the part about which will shatter, is contrary to what was posted after? Straining at the gnat are you? It is in total agreement with it, not only in agreement, is in direct reference to it, so what is the beef here? You do not like being reminded that sin yet exists. Read Pauls discourse in Romans. Read John's letters. Hear Yeshua when He teaches. Talk about confusing a post...... I believe the crux of any misuinderstanding here is an adamant fixation on the teachings of man as commandment from Yahweh, and this in itself is a new and perverse form of being a slave to the law. This is my opnion and belief. It seems many would rather make up new laws to follow, laws that do not exist in Holy Scripture rather than to admit the law is completed but not destroyed. If a person knows the Word he would know Yahweh declares He made bad laws also, Yeshua teaches us the difference, but as long as that person is blind to any of this, yet he says he sees, I am afraid Yeshua would say his guilt remains. Now, call this cryptic, or answer to it without understanding what has been shared, and you will receive the same response. It is fromt he Word.
I wonder just how many times this subject is going to be posted. As for what the nations call the faith of Abraham today, that being Christian, is nothing new unless a person wants to make it new. Yeshua was a Jew, of the faith of Abraham.
The subject has been posted a multitude of times.
Those who believe Yeshua are of the faith of Abraham. The Nations call themselves Christian since Antioch according to those who translated this happening.
Yeshua was a Jew.
What the laws of Moses is, I have never heard specifics on it. Now we know the law by what was given Moses to write down, but they were never his laws, they are Yahweh's.
The term, "Laws of Moses," is not in the Word. They were given to him by Yahweh.
If any Christian wants to say we are not bound to keep pure and not sin, this is his or her problem. Sin finds its power in the law, and sin does still exist. We are counted innocent only because the guilt of our transgressions is no longer imputed to us because of the grace afforded by the Blood of the Lamb of Yahweh.
As a professing believer in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, to say we are to sin is a probem because sin finds its destructive force in the law, and Yeshua teaches the laws are not destroyed they are completed for us who believe. When we name the Name, Yeshua, our past, present and future transgressions' guilt in no longer imputed against us, but this does not say we have not, do not, and will not sin. As Paul teaches, though the spirit is alive because of Yeshua, the flesh is dead because of sin, we do the very thing we hate, therefore what shall we do...........read the rest in Romans.
Those of you using terms like "Law of Moses," and the "Law being destroyed on the cross," will have to answer to someone with much more authority than those people coming here saying it is alright to sin. I, for one, know it was the curse of the law destroyed on the cross, that being punishment and ultimately death. Those who know Yeshua know sin is not alright, even though those who truly know Him are without the guilt of sin.
Anyone teaching about "The Laws of Moses" and "The Law was destroyed on the cross," will be obliged to explain this to Yahweh, for nowhere is this taught. Anyone who truly knows Yeshua has heard what He teaches on this.
Keep banging your heads against that rock, eventually one or the other will shatter. I know which one it will be.
Addressing those who continue believing our roots are not the same as those of Yeshua. Sorry, I am not Hebrew Roots formally, but we are all descended by faith from Abraham. Yeshua teaches Yahweh is able to raise children of Abraham from the stones. Teaching what is from the mind of man as commandment or torah from Yahweh is, quite simply put, apostasy.
Now if this is yet cryptic, I can not help you to understand further. Yeshua was a Jew at all levels.
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The subject has been posted a multitude of times.
Those who believe Yeshua are of the faith of Abraham. The Nations call themselves Christian since Antioch according to those who translated this happening.
Yeshua was a Jew.
What the laws of Moses is, I have never heard specifics on it. Now we know the law by what was given Moses to write down, but they were never his laws, they are Yahweh's.
The term, "Laws of Moses," is not in the Word. They were given to him by Yahweh.
If any Christian wants to say we are not bound to keep pure and not sin, this is his or her problem. Sin finds its power in the law, and sin does still exist. We are counted innocent only because the guilt of our transgressions is no longer imputed to us because of the grace afforded by the Blood of the Lamb of Yahweh.
As a professing believer in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, to say we are to sin is a probem because sin finds its destructive force in the law, and Yeshua teaches the laws are not destroyed they are completed for us who believe. When we name the Name, Yeshua, our past, present and future transgressions' guilt in no longer imputed against us, but this does not say we have not, do not, and will not sin. As Paul teaches, though the spirit is alive because of Yeshua, the flesh is dead because of sin, we do the very thing we hate, therefore what shall we do...........read the rest in Romans.
Those of you using terms like "Law of Moses," and the "Law being destroyed on the cross," will have to answer to someone with much more authority than those people coming here saying it is alright to sin. I, for one, know it was the curse of the law destroyed on the cross, that being punishment and ultimately death. Those who know Yeshua know sin is not alright, even though those who truly know Him are without the guilt of sin.
Anyone teaching about "The Laws of Moses" and "The Law was destroyed on the cross," will be obliged to explain this to Yahweh, for nowhere is this taught. Anyone who truly knows Yeshua has heard what He teaches on this.
Keep banging your heads against that rock, eventually one or the other will shatter. I know which one it will be.
Addressing those who continue believing our roots are not the same as those of Yeshua. Sorry, I am not Hebrew Roots formally, but we are all descended by faith from Abraham. Yeshua teaches Yahweh is able to raise children of Abraham from the stones. Teaching what is from the mind of man as commandment or torah from Yahweh is, quite simply put, apostasy.
Now if this is yet cryptic, I can not help you to understand further. Yeshua was a Jew at all levels.
Lol. If you are not purposefully being vague, you are doing a better job of it than I could if I were trying. Your posts don't really seem to address any of the issues raised, rather just point out a fact or two that are somewhat loosely related to what was said. It's kind of funny, but I don't think people will ever really understand if you agree with them or not if you keep posting that way.
No offense intended.
No offense intended.
M
Jesus was descended from the tribe of Judah, yes, as per the prophecies. But He most certainly was not a Pharisee, and today, the Pharisees call themselves Jews.
I think perhaps you are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread (or perhaps I am). The purpose isn't to discuss whether Jesus was (or was not) of the tribe of Judah. Scripture makes this clear. The purpose of the thread (as I understand) is to discuss a possibly heretical movement, known as "Hebrew Roots". Essentially, the movement is similar to the Judaisers mentioned in the New Testament.
I think perhaps you are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread (or perhaps I am). The purpose isn't to discuss whether Jesus was (or was not) of the tribe of Judah. Scripture makes this clear. The purpose of the thread (as I understand) is to discuss a possibly heretical movement, known as "Hebrew Roots". Essentially, the movement is similar to the Judaisers mentioned in the New Testament.
You're quite wrong about this:
There are 20 more instances if this doesn't convince you.
As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. Joshua 8:31
There are 20 more instances if this doesn't convince you.
This is the first time I have heard that the definition of a Jew is a Pharisee.
Jew from Judah, or Yahudah means praise Yah(weh). What you have posted is cryptic at best.
I have never heard, read or researched anything stating that Jew and Pharisee are synonomous. This would be like saying a hypocrite and a Christian are synonomous. I would never say either.
As for understanding the post, it states Christ's Gospel verses Hebrew Roots. I am addressing the words in the title of the post because one person who comes to this forum has labeled me as being of the Hebrew Roots movement. The person is a real whack because I belong to no religious affiliation other than to Yeshua and His teachings. Because I listen to Him, I feel the same kinship with Abraham, the Children of Israel, Jews and ultimately Yahweh as did He.
This is only natural when we hear Him. To call this adhering to the laws in Torah or being Hebrew Roots smacks of the accuser having a hidden agenda, actually, not so hidden.
I understand as I understand, not as you do, just as Yeshua comes to each of us as He sees fit and needful of each. Now, if this is cryptic to you, then cryptic it shall remain.
I have posted what I believe from study of the Word, and that for more decades than you have been in this age. You go ahead and believe as is given you, but do not come up with any argument that is not a rebuttal to my understanding in spirit and truth.
First you must understand. You have admitted it is your understanding, now try understanding my understanding.
I know I have fellowshipped with Christians understanding them for a long time, but the instant the mention is made of their Jesus being a Jew comes up, they tend to start talking party line, even campaigning against Jews, Hebrews, Abraham, Faith, Yeshua. This should not be.
I accept any who love Yeshua in spirit and truth yet still call Him Jesus, so what is wrong with my understanding other than it goes against the grain many?
Yeshua asked if when He returns will He find faith? It is also taught by Him, narrow is the door, and few find it.
Apostasy shall abound when He returns, do you think it does not already? This is what I see and understand from so many who cannot recognize their roots in faith are in Abraham. I cannot avoid perceiving this being honest with myself, apostasy.
Jew from Judah, or Yahudah means praise Yah(weh). What you have posted is cryptic at best.
I have never heard, read or researched anything stating that Jew and Pharisee are synonomous. This would be like saying a hypocrite and a Christian are synonomous. I would never say either.
As for understanding the post, it states Christ's Gospel verses Hebrew Roots. I am addressing the words in the title of the post because one person who comes to this forum has labeled me as being of the Hebrew Roots movement. The person is a real whack because I belong to no religious affiliation other than to Yeshua and His teachings. Because I listen to Him, I feel the same kinship with Abraham, the Children of Israel, Jews and ultimately Yahweh as did He.
This is only natural when we hear Him. To call this adhering to the laws in Torah or being Hebrew Roots smacks of the accuser having a hidden agenda, actually, not so hidden.
I understand as I understand, not as you do, just as Yeshua comes to each of us as He sees fit and needful of each. Now, if this is cryptic to you, then cryptic it shall remain.
I have posted what I believe from study of the Word, and that for more decades than you have been in this age. You go ahead and believe as is given you, but do not come up with any argument that is not a rebuttal to my understanding in spirit and truth.
First you must understand. You have admitted it is your understanding, now try understanding my understanding.
I know I have fellowshipped with Christians understanding them for a long time, but the instant the mention is made of their Jesus being a Jew comes up, they tend to start talking party line, even campaigning against Jews, Hebrews, Abraham, Faith, Yeshua. This should not be.
I accept any who love Yeshua in spirit and truth yet still call Him Jesus, so what is wrong with my understanding other than it goes against the grain many?
Yeshua asked if when He returns will He find faith? It is also taught by Him, narrow is the door, and few find it.
Apostasy shall abound when He returns, do you think it does not already? This is what I see and understand from so many who cannot recognize their roots in faith are in Abraham. I cannot avoid perceiving this being honest with myself, apostasy.
The laws were given to Moses by Yahweh.
This is an expression. If this were the case people would be worshipping and obeying Moses, and this is not the case. Trace back the origin of those laws of Moses written down, they came from above. They are completed on the cross because no man can live by them, for whoever lives by the law must obey all of the law, and this is quite impossible. Those laws were given by Yahweh if you read all of the Word as one work by the Word, Who is Yeshua.
Exo 24:12
And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
This is an expression. If this were the case people would be worshipping and obeying Moses, and this is not the case. Trace back the origin of those laws of Moses written down, they came from above. They are completed on the cross because no man can live by them, for whoever lives by the law must obey all of the law, and this is quite impossible. Those laws were given by Yahweh if you read all of the Word as one work by the Word, Who is Yeshua.
Exo 24:12
And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
I'm a bloodline descendant of Abraham and Esau--even circumcised by the Syrian church--and I don't understand your "kinship". I don't feel kinship with the Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust because it would never occur to me to try to steal someone else's cultural identity.
What agenda?That's postmodernist obscurantism. -> Criticism of postmodernism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Suppose you are an intellectual impostor with nothing to say, but with strong ambitions to succeed in academic life, collect a coterie of reverent disciples and have students around the world anoint your pages with respectful yellow highlighter. What kind of literary style would you cultivate? Not a lucid one, surely, for clarity would expose your lack of content." --Richard Dawkins (warning: atheist)
Is there any rebuttal to cryptic obscurantism?
Ok, does it involve a "feeling of kinship" with the Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust.
What party line?
Are the Torah laws confirmed in Acts 15:20 part of this party line?Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
You're "understanding" remains cryptic, to me anyway.
Abraham was not Jewish and didn't follow Torah.
My problem is always the idea that there are elite Christians - oh your a second baptism with tongues, oh your a messianic jew - etc
That as 1 timothy would say is showing partiality - which we should not do - timothy even goes as far as saying it's demonic - the foot of the cross is level - Peter said we are of all of a like faith, that Elijah was a man like us
I have been on ups and downs and I refuse to believe I am a second hand Christian.
That as 1 timothy would say is showing partiality - which we should not do - timothy even goes as far as saying it's demonic - the foot of the cross is level - Peter said we are of all of a like faith, that Elijah was a man like us
I have been on ups and downs and I refuse to believe I am a second hand Christian.
B
It has bothered me that people put titles on themselves so you can emphasis their identity or something. I'm not against any believer, but taking the name messianic and building a doctrine outside Christian theology doesn't really seem to resolve a lot. Most people would feel inadequate to visit a messianic "synagogue" or church because they feel they need to be part of the roots. Can't we just put titles and such behind and accept Christ all the same? Not only that, but following the full Torah in things that we have liberty from, can make a believer weak in the faith. I don't want to see the church do what Paul witnessed in his day, people fighting over food and days, etc. It's so unnecessary!
Until the swamp is drained.
Jesuism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jesuism (Jesusism or Jesuanism) is the philosophy or teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and adherence to those teachings. Jesuism is distinct from and sometimes opposed to mainstream Christianity. In particular, the term is often contrasted with the theology attributed to Paul of Tarsus and mainstream Church dogma. Jesuism is not opposed to the Christian Bible or Church doctrine, but rather it does not affirm their authority over the teachings of Jesus.
Etymology
The term "Jesuism" was coined by the late 1800s. It is derived from "Jesus" (Jesus of Nazareth) + "-ism" (English suffix, a characteristic or system of beliefs, from French -isme, Latin -ismus, Greek -ismos).
History of usage
As a concept distinct from Christianity, the terms Jesuism, Jesusism and Jesuanism have been referenced by philosophers, theologians, and writers for over a century. In 1878, ...
Not enough clearly--since some are waging spiritual warfare against us right out in the open:
Christians were Jewish, Syrian, Greek, Roman, Armenian and more.
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Yes.
Sin found power a long time before the law.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, ... 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
I posted about that in another thread:
Take care with the word "Torah", since you have kinship with the Jews.
Oral Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Oral Torah comprises the legal and interpretative traditions that, according to tradition, were transmitted orally from Mount Sinai, and were not written in the Torah. According to Rabbinic Judaism, the oral Torah, oral Law, or oral tradition (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh) was given by God orally to Moses in conjunction with the written Torah (Hebrew: תורה שבכתב, Torah she-bi-khtav), after which it was passed down orally through the ages. Later to be codified and written in the Talmud (Hebrew :תַּלְמוּד ). While other cultures and Jewish groups maintained oral traditions, only the Rabbis gave ideological significance to the fact that they transmitted their tradition orally.
Where are you going with that statement?
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Elitism is a major red flag that you're doing it wrong--even the Orthodox Jewish Bible (a Messianic translation) is clear on the subject.
Lukas 14:10-11 But when you are invited, go and recline at tish in the moshav hashafel (low seat), so that when the one who has invited you comes, he may say to you, Chaver, move up to a higher place; then you will have kavod in the sight of all with you at the tish. For everyone exalting himself shall be humbled, and the one humbling himself shall be exalted.
Luke 12:7 Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows. (ESV)
Lukas 14:10-11 But when you are invited, go and recline at tish in the moshav hashafel (low seat), so that when the one who has invited you comes, he may say to you, Chaver, move up to a higher place; then you will have kavod in the sight of all with you at the tish. For everyone exalting himself shall be humbled, and the one humbling himself shall be exalted.
Luke 12:7 Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows. (ESV)
Nothing asked that is not already addressed in the thread. As for the questions, I appreciate what is from the Holy Scripture as opposed to human philosopies outside the Holy Scripture, ie jusuism. It is fun, as children, to spin in circles, but it only serves to make them dizzy when overdone. I believe this subject has been served well, and at this point pursuing it further is unecessary, making the central understanding muddled. Nothing I have posted has not be posted and reiterated for feigned needed elaboration Further pursuit is an excercise in futility, but not for me...good bye.
K
No there is no rank amongst believers. We are all part of the body. Those baptised with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues can commit sin just as anyone else. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidence of what God can do with a man. Peter being uneducated preached a sermon and added 5 thousand to the way. Now, did he do it or the Holy Spirit through him. Secondly, being uneducated, he astounded the priest ( the educated) and the only thing the could say was to preach in Jesus name no more.
It is not a rank, those who say it is don't know what they are saying. I am no greater than the drunk under the bridge. Though I speak in tongues. If I don't do that which God has given me to do. He will go get the drunk from under the bridge. Clean him up and use him for what I was supposed to do and what I'm supposed to do is preach the gospel to the drunk under the bridge.
It is not a rank, those who say it is don't know what they are saying. I am no greater than the drunk under the bridge. Though I speak in tongues. If I don't do that which God has given me to do. He will go get the drunk from under the bridge. Clean him up and use him for what I was supposed to do and what I'm supposed to do is preach the gospel to the drunk under the bridge.