Hi Presi: You are pointing out a flaw in my logic that says a normal sized woman could not give birth to a giant by making up something that could not happen unless God changed nature?? My logic has no flaw, we know the size of a human baby and going way beyond that size would most definitely kill the mother. There is no such thing as "what if". On the book of Enoch, we have no evidence that Enoch wrote the book of Enoch. The writer of Enoch claimed that angles mated with women and the women had 45 foot tall sons...that is pure goofy.
Chuck Missler
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This is a picture of a 20th century giant and his mother:
http://www.thetallestman.com/images/robertwadlow/robertwadlow (486).jpg
How did she give birth to someone so huge? She's not that big? I think I know the secret. He was small when he was born.
I didn't say there were 45-foot giants. But if there were, and they were born as normal-sized babies and grew tall later, their mother's could survive.
Or they could come out kind of like those critters in the movie 'Alien.'
http://www.thetallestman.com/images/robertwadlow/robertwadlow (486).jpg
How did she give birth to someone so huge? She's not that big? I think I know the secret. He was small when he was born.
I didn't say there were 45-foot giants. But if there were, and they were born as normal-sized babies and grew tall later, their mother's could survive.
Or they could come out kind of like those critters in the movie 'Alien.'
Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."
Here are some translation of the phrase, "the bed undefiled" CEB "with no cheating on the relationship" CJB "in particular, sex within marriage is pure" CEV "Always be faithful to your partner"
The ERV give a good understanding of the Scripture. "Marriage should be honored by everyone. And every marriage should be kept pure between husband and wife. God will judge guilty those who commit sexual sins and adultery."
First I want to say that I've given Scripture on how angels do not marry or are they given in marriage, can you give me a Scripture that show sex between a married couple is illicit?
Here are some translation of the phrase, "the bed undefiled" CEB "with no cheating on the relationship" CJB "in particular, sex within marriage is pure" CEV "Always be faithful to your partner"
The ERV give a good understanding of the Scripture. "Marriage should be honored by everyone. And every marriage should be kept pure between husband and wife. God will judge guilty those who commit sexual sins and adultery."
First I want to say that I've given Scripture on how angels do not marry or are they given in marriage, can you give me a Scripture that show sex between a married couple is illicit?
Yes I do, they misinterpret the word generation in Matthew 24:34, here's 24:33-35 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
They say that a generation is forty years, since Israel became a state in 1948 and Jesus said that this "generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Which is referring to verses 29-31 that are talking about His second coming. This word for generation means "race or nation" so Jesus was saying that the Jewish people would pass away until those things happened. Which if you think about it is quite an amazing prophecy. Since the Jews were without a homeland for 1800 years plus, yet they kept their language, culture and religion. Most nations when they have no homeland assimilate into the culture they are in with-in 300 years or so, losing their language, culture and religion if they have one. That's where the 1988 rapture predictors failed, there was a book 88 reasons the rapture would happen in 1988, will we know what happened.
They say that a generation is forty years, since Israel became a state in 1948 and Jesus said that this "generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Which is referring to verses 29-31 that are talking about His second coming. This word for generation means "race or nation" so Jesus was saying that the Jewish people would pass away until those things happened. Which if you think about it is quite an amazing prophecy. Since the Jews were without a homeland for 1800 years plus, yet they kept their language, culture and religion. Most nations when they have no homeland assimilate into the culture they are in with-in 300 years or so, losing their language, culture and religion if they have one. That's where the 1988 rapture predictors failed, there was a book 88 reasons the rapture would happen in 1988, will we know what happened.
That was in only in reference to the Sadducees question that there is no marriage for those of the resurrected. In other words, those of the resurrection are not going get married and have children as it is currently done on the earth. It doesn't mean that the angels couldn't have lain with woman and had sexual relations.
The fact is that Enoch goes into great detail and mentions the same event of Gen.6:1-4, as follows:
It happened after the sons of men multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful (Enoch 7:1, Gen.6:1)
And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us begat children.
Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise; and that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime. But they all answered him and said: We all swear; and bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
Then they swore all together, and all bout themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon. That mountain, therefore, they called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
The following is what these angels began to teach mankind as they cohabited with women of the earth:
Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom the cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantation, and the dividing of roots and trees.
And they conceiving brought forth giants (Gen.6:4-6); whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them; when they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them; and began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fish, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood (Matt.24:37-39). Then the earth reproved the unrighteousness.
Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, made them see that which was behind them and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of ever valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots;
Armers taught the solution of sorcery
Barkayal taught the observers of the stars;
Akibeel taught signs
Tamiel taught astronomy
And Asaredel taught the motion of the moon.
And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.
The following is what God told Michael the archangel regarding the angels that sinned:
To Michael likewise the Lord said: Go and announce his crime to Samyaza, and to the others who are with him, who have been associated with woman, that they might be polluted with all their impurity. And when all theirs sons shall be slain, when they shall see the destruction of their beloved, bind them for seventy generations underneath the earth, even to the day of judgment and of the consummation, until the judgment, the effect of which will last forever, be completed. (2 Pet.2:4, Jude 6)
The above is just a few excerpts from Ethiopic Enoch, which continues to go into great detail regarding Gen.6:1-4 and everything that took place regarding those angels that took wives and all that they taught, including Enoch's travels with the angels of heaven, the watchers.
I didn't say he was go to hell for it. But here you go. "We’re the generation that saw the fig tree bud forth, as Israel became a nation again in 1948. As a rule, a generation in the Bible lasts 40 years. . . . Forty years after 1948 would bring us to 1988." from his book, Future Survival.
Here's what he said in his 1978 book End Times: “If I understand Scripture correctly, Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the ‘budding of the fig tree,’ the birth of the nation of Israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord’s return. I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981. (1948 + 40 – 7 = 1981).”
He also said which would cover him if '88 was wrong and give him lots of time. “it is possible that Jesus is dating the beginning of the generation from 1967, when Jerusalem was again under Israeli control for the first time since 587 B.C. We don’t know for sure which year actually marks the beginning of the last generation.” From Future Survival.
So that would of made the rapture happen in 2000 taking away the 7 years for the tribulation, since he was pre-trib. He did use the words, "if I understand Scripture correctly", "it is possible"
I found this when getting the information you wanted. June 22 1997, David Hocking admits the damage Chuck Smith’s false prophecies have caused. “So the rapture is coming in 1981. I've met people all over this country who believed that, followed that, anticipated that. It did not come and as a result many of them bombed out, dropped out, copped out; they're not around anymore.”NOT something to joke about Dave since it’s partially Chuck Smith’s fault. What I found interesting about this is it was about the same time 1997 that David left Costa Mesa or asked to leave, I don't remember if he still taught in the Calvary's or not. We used to call it Costa Meca, when we were going to the Thursday night Bible study. Using the words "if I understand correctly" or "it is possible" doesn't clean up a prediction, what cleans it up is never saying it.
There's the information you wanted, God bless.
Here's what he said in his 1978 book End Times: “If I understand Scripture correctly, Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the ‘budding of the fig tree,’ the birth of the nation of Israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord’s return. I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981. (1948 + 40 – 7 = 1981).”
He also said which would cover him if '88 was wrong and give him lots of time. “it is possible that Jesus is dating the beginning of the generation from 1967, when Jerusalem was again under Israeli control for the first time since 587 B.C. We don’t know for sure which year actually marks the beginning of the last generation.” From Future Survival.
So that would of made the rapture happen in 2000 taking away the 7 years for the tribulation, since he was pre-trib. He did use the words, "if I understand Scripture correctly", "it is possible"
I found this when getting the information you wanted. June 22 1997, David Hocking admits the damage Chuck Smith’s false prophecies have caused. “So the rapture is coming in 1981. I've met people all over this country who believed that, followed that, anticipated that. It did not come and as a result many of them bombed out, dropped out, copped out; they're not around anymore.”NOT something to joke about Dave since it’s partially Chuck Smith’s fault. What I found interesting about this is it was about the same time 1997 that David left Costa Mesa or asked to leave, I don't remember if he still taught in the Calvary's or not. We used to call it Costa Meca, when we were going to the Thursday night Bible study. Using the words "if I understand correctly" or "it is possible" doesn't clean up a prediction, what cleans it up is never saying it.
There's the information you wanted, God bless.
The book of Enoch is not in the canon of Scripture for a reason. You really discount Scripture because Jesus only said it once. Do you apply that same form of interpretation to John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."?
II Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
II Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
No! Jesus was saying that "this generation" the one where those signs begin to take place, would not pass away until all of those signs had taken place. Those signs have not yet taken place, but will take place during that last seven years in fulfillment of the decree that was given upon Israel and Jerusalem.
Okay but you still have to deal with the whole of Scripture and the structure of Genesis 6:1, 4 "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,........There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same were mighty men were of old, men of renown."
The context of this chapter is, "men multiply on the face of the earth". So, there were, either refers to the men multiplying or when the sons of God came into. The giants were not a result of the union, because they were there before that union and after the union. The children born from that union, the same were mighty men, men of renown. The judgement is for the wickedness of men, not because angels had sex with their wives.
Genesis 6:5-7 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
The context of this chapter is about men being wicked before God, it has nothing to do with angels or demons or fallen angels, which leads my to a question I have, as mention the term, sons of God appears 11, 9 of them no one will denied that it's talking about beings that are right right fellowship with God, so how are this first use of the term about beings that are rebelling against God? Where in Scripture are beings that are sinning against God cal His sons? Remember when Jesus said and many in the Evangelical community use. Let it be established by two or three witnesses, which I've given, OT procreate after it's kind, Jesus said angels do not marry or are they given in marriage and the epistles Paul tells about heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, how they are not the same. Which goes to, after it's own kind, it's impossible for angels and humans to procreate.
The context of this chapter is, "men multiply on the face of the earth". So, there were, either refers to the men multiplying or when the sons of God came into. The giants were not a result of the union, because they were there before that union and after the union. The children born from that union, the same were mighty men, men of renown. The judgement is for the wickedness of men, not because angels had sex with their wives.
Genesis 6:5-7 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
The context of this chapter is about men being wicked before God, it has nothing to do with angels or demons or fallen angels, which leads my to a question I have, as mention the term, sons of God appears 11, 9 of them no one will denied that it's talking about beings that are right right fellowship with God, so how are this first use of the term about beings that are rebelling against God? Where in Scripture are beings that are sinning against God cal His sons? Remember when Jesus said and many in the Evangelical community use. Let it be established by two or three witnesses, which I've given, OT procreate after it's kind, Jesus said angels do not marry or are they given in marriage and the epistles Paul tells about heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, how they are not the same. Which goes to, after it's own kind, it's impossible for angels and humans to procreate.
Mules are made from mixing kinds of animals. Mixing different kinds was forbidden in the Torah. It was forbidden, not impossible. Ligers and Tions have been bread as well. Zebras have been cross-bread with horses or donkeys.
Matthew 22:30 tells us "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
The angels in heaven do not marry or reproduce.
But in Jude, we read of angels that sinned that did not keep their proper abode, which we might assume was heaven. The angels in heaven do not marry or give in marriage, but these angels were not in heaven.
Jude
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
II Peter 2 mentions the angels that sinned as well:
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
Notice the sequence, angels sinning, the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot. This is the sequence of events in Genesis, the sons of God and daughters of men passage, the flood, and then Sodom and Gomorrah.
If a group of angels fell with Satan and became demons, then who are these angels who sinned before the flood who were already bound and reserved to judgement? Why wasn't Satan already bound at this time if he was a part of the group Peter speaks of here?
Matthew 22:30 tells us "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
The angels in heaven do not marry or reproduce.
But in Jude, we read of angels that sinned that did not keep their proper abode, which we might assume was heaven. The angels in heaven do not marry or give in marriage, but these angels were not in heaven.
Jude
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
II Peter 2 mentions the angels that sinned as well:
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
Notice the sequence, angels sinning, the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot. This is the sequence of events in Genesis, the sons of God and daughters of men passage, the flood, and then Sodom and Gomorrah.
If a group of angels fell with Satan and became demons, then who are these angels who sinned before the flood who were already bound and reserved to judgement? Why wasn't Satan already bound at this time if he was a part of the group Peter speaks of here?
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What people miss is the age of those people that actually took place in the idolatry. When God says they shall wonder 40 years until this generation shall pass away. If the people who defiled the Lord's Mountain were 20 then that would make this generation around 68. I have researched the generation age of people through out the years and have found that the Generation of the 1948 had a average (men/women) of 68-70 years.
Having 70 years from 1948 or 2018 be the year.....I HAVE NO IDEA. However, I will say that a lot more of the prophecies are coming together these days than there was in 1988. Prophecy of Revelation tells us we are are very close to the final "END DAYS". When I do not know but I keep watching for them.
Having 70 years from 1948 or 2018 be the year.....I HAVE NO IDEA. However, I will say that a lot more of the prophecies are coming together these days than there was in 1988. Prophecy of Revelation tells us we are are very close to the final "END DAYS". When I do not know but I keep watching for them.
The angels are those who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode. The first angels that rebelled. So as I've already asked where's the Scripture for the second fall of angels and the Scripture where beings that have rebelled against God are call sons of God?
Did you notice the semicolon, "unto judgment;".
Donkeys and zebras are from the same family, species or of the same kind, equidae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equidae
Lions and tigers are from the same family, species or of the same kind, felidae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae
This is the last post I'm going to answer, it seems like no one is reading my other posts, because I'm answering the same posts and misinterpretation. If someone comes up with something new based on Scripture, I'm not answering. The argument has become an exercise in circular reasoning and examples of eisegesis.
Did you notice the semicolon, "unto judgment;".
Donkeys and zebras are from the same family, species or of the same kind, equidae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equidae
Lions and tigers are from the same family, species or of the same kind, felidae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae
This is the last post I'm going to answer, it seems like no one is reading my other posts, because I'm answering the same posts and misinterpretation. If someone comes up with something new based on Scripture, I'm not answering. The argument has become an exercise in circular reasoning and examples of eisegesis.
Hi Pres, you keep pulling my chain, of course a woman can have a normal baby and the child has a growth hormone problem and becomes quite tall, not at all the same thing. Besides, we have giants described by name and their fathers and grandfathers described by name and they were certainly not angels. Hey, if you can cross a male great dane with a female dash hound and show me the pups then you have proven your position.
Samuel23,
The Anakites were descended from the Nephilim, so not first generation offspring. I believe that was the group that the Israelite spies thought were so big, they were like grasshoppers compared to them.
I don't know if there were 45 foot giants. But since we can't observe the births of 45 foot giants, we can't say, if they existed, they weren't born the size of human children. Modern giants typically grow large some time after birth.
If one of these 'sons of God' had a baby girl that grew 10 feet and another one produced a child with her that grew to 20 feet, etc., that might make giants grow. Whatever the Nephilim were, they weren't sterile or a people-group wouldn't have been descended from them.
The Anakites were descended from the Nephilim, so not first generation offspring. I believe that was the group that the Israelite spies thought were so big, they were like grasshoppers compared to them.
I don't know if there were 45 foot giants. But since we can't observe the births of 45 foot giants, we can't say, if they existed, they weren't born the size of human children. Modern giants typically grow large some time after birth.
If one of these 'sons of God' had a baby girl that grew 10 feet and another one produced a child with her that grew to 20 feet, etc., that might make giants grow. Whatever the Nephilim were, they weren't sterile or a people-group wouldn't have been descended from them.
Johnny_B
Leviticus 19:19 says,
'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
(NIV)
Bible commentaries point out that, based on this, breeding mules out of horses and donkeys was forbidden, though Israelites imported them in the time of David. The idea that the breeding of a mule was forbidden is a traditional Jewish interpretation, showing up in the Mishneh.
Why forbid breeding different kinds if it were impossible?
Leviticus 19:19 says,
'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.'Keep my decrees. "'Do not mate different kinds of animals. "'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. "'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
(NIV)
Bible commentaries point out that, based on this, breeding mules out of horses and donkeys was forbidden, though Israelites imported them in the time of David. The idea that the breeding of a mule was forbidden is a traditional Jewish interpretation, showing up in the Mishneh.
Why forbid breeding different kinds if it were impossible?