Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[SarahM777]

​How many AOG churches did you attend?

Two,One near Chicago and the other near Milwaukee,the one near Milwaukee was also the same one my sister and I attended for a time. That was also the church that started saying prayers to the angel Michael She was in one near La Crosse,Wi.

 

[RickShafer]

Church of Christ?

No instruments in worship.
That certainly is as biblical as anything else you have posted Sarah.
No instruments listed in the N.T.?
Just like no mating. (Don't procreate) The church should have died out around 100A.D. at the latest.
No good kingdoms either in the N.T. So there goes another ordination.

Lets see.....of the three ordinations concerning mankind:
1. No mating in the N.T. - no human family (Mary doesn't count, that was God)
2. No righteous kingdoms in the N.T. - (Anarchy for sure is commanded for God's chosen)
3. No instruments listed in worship in the N.T. - (Acapella is certain in true worship)

So let's add up the total: Holy people will follow every nonwritten tennant in the New Testament and not mate, not obey godless government, and not use musical instruments.
So we are looking at a bunch of singing anarchist celibates who will die out by the start of the second century.

Of all of the 2200 denominations you had to pull up that one........and so the seeing through a glass darkly remains. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[SarahM777]

Church of Christ?

No instruments in worship.
That certainly is as biblical as anything else you have posted Sarah.
No instruments listed in the N.T.?
Just like no mating. (Don't procreate) The church should have died out around 100A.D. at the latest.
No good kingdoms either in the N.T. So there goes another ordination.

Lets see.....of the three ordinations concerning mankind:
1. No mating in the N.T. - no human family (Mary doesn't count, that was God)
2. No righteous kingdoms in the N.T. - (Anarchy for sure is commanded for God's chosen)
3. No instruments listed in worship in the N.T. - (Acapella is certain in true worship)

So let's add up the total: Holy people will follow every nonwritten tennant in the New Testament and not mate, not obey godless government, and not use musical instruments.
So we are looking at a bunch of singing anarchist celibates who will die out by the start of the second century.

Of all of the 2200 denominations you had to pull up that one........and so the seeing through a glass darkly remains. Thanks for proving my point.

You don't like that is this one better for you? Either the word does have multiple meanings going from Greek to English or it does not.

Here is a look at the adjective TELEIOS as it is used in the New Testament. TELEIOS is translated as perfect, complete, mature. The meaning almost exclusively describes a mature Christian. When describing things instead of people, the gender will be neuter or, in one instance, feminine gender. Most of the time, the adjective has a named subject that it modifies. But in the 1 Corinthians 13 passage, only the context can determine because the adjective stands alone: "the perfect." So the meaning of the adjective is determined by the context. I believe that the "perfect" of 1 Cor. 13 is the completed word of God.

New Testament usage:
WHEN THE ADJECTIVE DESCRIBES BELIEVERS

• Mt. 5:48 (describing Christians and God) “ye (plural) are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” The adjective "perfect" is masculine gender. Since it is speaking of God, neither the neuter nor feminine are appropriate.
• Mt. 19:21 “If you wish to be complete (TELEIOS), go an sell your possessions.” Again, the adjective is masculine describing the rich young ruler had he followed Jesus.
• 1 Cor. 2:6 “yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature. . . .” "Wisdom" is the direct object, "to the mature" (is plural, masculine)" is the indirect object of the sentence. The “mature” are the disciples who, unlike the self-righteous and wise of the world, believe the Gospel.
• 1 Cor. 14:20 “Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature. The adjective describing mature thinking is (masculine)."
• Eph. 4:13 “Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD, to a MATURE MAN, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” (With this passage, note the similarity between the section from verse 8-15 and 1 Cor. 13). The “mature man” is the direct object and is masculinegender. There is no doubt that this perfection, maturity, completeness is describing the Church and not Jesus. The Church matures, becoming like Jesus. This section in Ephesians is describing the Church in its infancy, just as is 1 Corinthians 13. In both passages the use of the miraculous (through Apostles and Prophets) is present to help bring the church to the place of maturity.
• Phil. 3:15, “Let as many of us as are mature, have this attitude. . .” The adjective is again (masculine) and it is clear that Paul is talking about mature Christians.
• Col. 1:28, "We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom so that we may present every man COMPLETE in Christ.” To be “complete” is the direct object describing his mission. “In Christ” is the indirect object, showing specifically WHERE completeness is found. Again, the adjective TELEION is in themasculine gender.
• Col. 4:12, “Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand PERFECT and fully assured in all the will of God.” The subject PERFECT is in themasculine gender.
• Heb. 5:14, “But solid food is for the MATURE . . .” Again, it is masculine gender describing mature Christians.Jas. 3:2, “the perfect man.” The adjective is in themasculine because the adjective must agree withmasculine “man”.

WHEN THE ADJECTIVE DESCRIBES THINGS

• Rom. 12:2, God’s will (Note that God's will learned through the New Testament revelation), “the perfect” will of God. The adjective here is neuter. God is not neuter, but His perfect will is neuter???
• 1 Cor. 13:10, ____________ (fill in the blank since that is the point of this discussion) “But when the TELEION comes, the partial will be done away.” The adjective, translated “perfect”, is the subject of the sentence and the gender is neuter. The gender neutral would not be used if God or Jesus Christ were in mind.
• Heb. 9:11, Heavenly Tabernacle; Jesus went into the more PERFECT tabernacle in heaven. The adjective here is the feminine gender. It is not Jesus who is feminine, but the tabernacle. The feminine PERFECT is a place.
• Jas. 1:4, The outcome of trials, perfected faith, The PERFECT (neuter) result of endurance is to make you PERFECT(masculine) and complete (masculine). The neuter PERFECT is an outcome or result.
• Jas. 1:17, God's gifts. "Every good thing given and every PERFECT gift is from above, coming down fromthe Father of lights. . .” The perfect gift is neuter gender.
• Jas. 1:25, The Law of Liberty. “The pefect Law”. Here, the thing or the noun is the “Law”, that the adjective isclearly describing. Because the “law” is masculine gender, then the adjective (teleion) must agree. Itwould not be proper for it is be neuter or feminine. But in 1 Cor. 13, the subject is unnamed, and onlyindirectly arrived at as being the ‘knowing’ no longer ‘in part’, but in full.
• 1 Jn. 4:18, Agape Love. “there is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear . . .” Here it is an adjectivedescribing a mature love.The usage of the word in 1 Cor. Is contrasted to the infant period of the church when childish things liketongues, knowledge, and prophesy were still necessary.

A Conquering Faith: "PERFECT" IS NOT WHAT YOU THOUGHT, 1 CORINTHIANS 13:10

 

[presidente]

It's the SAME WORD in every instance. IT MUST BE DETERMINED FROM WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE PASSAGE.
It's no different in Greek then it is in an English when words HAVE MULTIPLE meanings.

That's true, but also taking into consideration the flow of argument throughout the entire book and the teaching of the rest of scripture.

That's the problem with the approach that some cessationists take to I Corinthians 13, trying to read cessationism into it.

Take a look at these verses:

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.



The verses are about Paul who went to sleep in Christ before the canon was completed, but if you want to take it losely where Paul was a child and those who have the completed canon are adults, then you are saying that your speech, knowledge, and understanding is so great, that Paul's was childish by comparison. Notice this speaks of the individual 'I', not some collective knowledge of 'we.'

You also have to hide from the fact that Paul gives us an idea of the time frame when he writes in I Corinthians 1

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Context is important.


Theologians have seen the problem of the cessationist interpretaton of the passage that makes the reader superior to Paul.

This is a quote from Martin Lloyd Jones

It means that you and I, who have the Scriptures open before us, know much more than the apostle Paul of God's truth.... It means that we are altogether superior... even to the apostles themselves, including the apostle Paul! It means that we are now in a position in which... 'we know, even as also we are known' by God... indeed, there is only one word to describe such a view, it is nonsense."

(Martin Lloyd Jones as quoted in Wayne Grundem's Systematic Theology on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.)


John Calvin writes that some people ignorantly (or stupidly depending on your translation) apply the perfection spoken of in I corinthians 13:10 to the current age.

Hence we infer, that the whole of this discussion is
ignorantly applied to the time that is intermediate.

and of verse 12

so long as we dwell in the body we are absent from the Lord;
for we walk by faith, not by sight.

Our faith, therefore, at present beholds God as absent. How so? Because
it sees not his face, but rests satisfied with the image in the mirror;
but when we shall have left the world, and gone to him, it will behold
him as near and before its eyes.

Concerning seeing through a glass darkly in verse 12, Calvin wrote,

In the first place, there can be no doubt that it is the ministry of
the word, and the means that are required for the exercise of it, that
he compares to a looking-glass For God, who is otherwise invisible, has
appointed these means for discovering himself to us.

He also wrote,

Now I know in part That is, the measure of our present knowledge is
imperfect, as John says in his Epistle, (1 John 3:1,2,) that

we know, indeed, that we are the sons of God,
but that it doth not yet appear, until we shall see God as he is.

Then we shall see God -- not in his image, but in himself, so that
there will be, in a manner, a mutual view.

It's funny. I'd never read Calvin about that, but I often think of the same verse from I John when I read that verse now I know in part, but then I shall know as I am known.

See <http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom39.txt>


My Bad Sophistry detector was going off when I was reading your commentator's comments about Greek gender. The way some Bible commentators try to spin an argument out of grammatical components like this make language so complicated that the Greeks speakers of the first century themselves would not have been able to decode it.

 

[SarahM777]

Church of Christ?

No instruments in worship.
That certainly is as biblical as anything else you have posted Sarah.
No instruments listed in the N.T.?
Just like no mating. (Don't procreate) The church should have died out around 100A.D. at the latest.
No good kingdoms either in the N.T. So there goes another ordination.

Lets see.....of the three ordinations concerning mankind:
1. No mating in the N.T. - no human family (Mary doesn't count, that was God)
2. No righteous kingdoms in the N.T. - (Anarchy for sure is commanded for God's chosen)
3. No instruments listed in worship in the N.T. - (Acapella is certain in true worship)

So let's add up the total: Holy people will follow every nonwritten tennant in the New Testament and not mate, not obey godless government, and not use musical instruments.
So we are looking at a bunch of singing anarchist celibates who will die out by the start of the second century.

Of all of the 2200 denominations you had to pull up that one........and so the seeing through a glass darkly remains. Thanks for proving my point.

And Rick none of that has anything to do with the fact the Greek Interlinear Bible translates that same word as MATURE.

 

[presidente]

That certainly is as biblical as anything else you have posted Sarah.
No instruments listed in the N.T.?
Just like no mating. (Don't procreate)

What about 'and he knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son.' That was before Pentecost, so how about 'Defraud ye not one another.'

Whew! I'm glad that's in there.

 

[SarahM777]

That's true, but also taking into consideration the flow of argument throughout the entire book and the teaching of the rest of scripture.

That's the problem with the approach that some cessationists take to I Corinthians 13, trying to read cessationism into it.

Take a look at these verses:

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Again if the Greek Interlinear translates it as mature does this change the meaning when the verse is rendered as such

10 But when that which is MATURE is come,then that which is in part shall be done away with.

Then is it not possible that Paul is talking about the mature completed revelation of God and about Jesus Christ,of who He is,what He did,how that applies to our lives etc? And if that is the case then what else do we need to have revealed about that?

 

[presidente]

And Rick none of that has anything to do with the fact the Greek Interlinear Bible translates that same word as MATURE.

Nor does how the Greek Interlinear Bible translates mature support the cessationist argument. It just doesn't make sense in context.

Honestly, just reading the passage through, I think how in the world can anyone read that and come up with the idea that this is talking about the Bible being completed? It makes no sense.

 

[presidente]

I found some other historical Bible commentaries of I Corinthians 13 online at E-Word Today E-mail Devotional.

John Wesley

Verse 10. But when that which is perfect is come - At death and in the last day. That which is in part shall vanish away - Both that poor, low, imperfect, glimmering light, which is all the knowledge we now can attain to; and these slow and unsatisfactory methods of attaining, as well as of imparting it to others.

The Geneva Bible commentary

13:12 6 For i now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

(6) The applying of the similitude of our childhood to this present life, in which we darkly behold heavenly things, according to the small measure of light which is given to us, through the understanding of tongues, and hearing the teachers and ministers of the Church. And our man's age and strength is compared to that heavenly and eternal life, in which when we behold God himself present, and are enlightened with his full and perfect light, to what purpose would we desire the voice of man, and those worldly things which are most imperfect? But yet then all the saints will be knit both with God, and between themselves with most fervent love. And therefore charity will not be abolished, but perfected, although it will not be shown forth and entertained by such manner of duties as belong only and especially to the infirmity of this life.
(i) All this must be understood by comparison.

 

[vic1980]

All you have given is twisted logic.

Supplied no Scripture to show gifts have ceased.

Have been refuted countless times, and now my integrity is questioned.

You don't believe me? That's fine. But, if you ever want to meet me face to face, I am open to this. And we will go on the street together and follow the Lord's Word which tells us to pray for the sick. As far as prophesy is concerned, I have seen this in action and I have been used like this many times...

I've seen prophets know to the day, what has happened to people, what they were wearing, the injury etc, then they prayed for them to be healed, like James tells us to have an elder pray and they were. One man like this James Maloney.

He has gone around the world preaching the gospel and I have seen many miracles from his prayers.
Another man is Mohesh Chavda under his preaching over 500k were saved and I have personally met him as well. Many miracles under this man. God told me I would meet him and that day I was invited to go and see him.
Another man is Reinhard Bonke millions have come to the gospel from him going around the world to follow the great commission and God backs him up.
Another man is Randy Clark I have met him personally, hundreds of thousands have come to the gospel and I met him personally, when he prayed for me, I felt the power of God like I had never before, and a lot of my fear, worry, depression were taken away... I was in a room where many were healed.

I've seen metal removed. Cancer healed. Pain taken away many times. I've seen people who couldn't walk well, be healed. I've prayed for people over Facebook, Skype and even the prayer room in the CC and get healed.

This is my testimony, call me a liar if you wish, don't believe me if you wish, we all will give an account.

One day we will all give an account for our lives, I will give an account for believing that God still heals today, that God still still speaks to people. And you will give an account for not believing He still heals today and that He doesn't speak to people, except through His word.

It is what it is, but I will not attack your integrity. Nor will I call you a liar.

You have made your stand, regardless of what anyone says, and what Scripture says you have made up your mind.

For those, who do have an open mind to doing what God is calling us to do. Pray for the sick. Ask Him to speak to people through you, and you can test the spirits for yourself. I don't see any good fruit coming from my participation in this thread. Those who write have made up their minds yes or no.

But if anyone is on the edge, just keep an open mind, and pray to the Holy Spirit to open your eyes that you will not have a hard heart to what God is doing. Above all things, we must always be open to what God is doing. So be sensitive to His voice. And follow it, right or wrong, at least you can say that you followed the Spirit when we give an account.

C.

Amen Brother Cee, i can testify also on How God still heals and does these same very thing. But there are some here that deny his power ,and have lifted the ways of men, there views ,there ideas there commentaries. Instead of embracing the truth that Jesus Christ has given us.

God Bless

 

[RickShafer]

And Rick none of that has anything to do with the fact the Greek Interlinear Bible translates that same word as MATURE.

Big deal.
Do you think you are mature by making exclusionary laws against musical instruments in praise?
Well, Paul said to obey the earthly rulers because they are a terror to evil, but he got his head chopped off by one: Nero.
What I'm saying is that "Mature" is more than a word Sarah, it is the word in context.
- CONTEXT! -
--CONTEXT! -

 

[Stephen63]

Ahh And therein lies the problem

The Greek Interliner Bible translates that word as this

teleion
teleion
G5046
a_ Acc Sg n
mature
maturity


That same word Teleion has different meanings depending on the CONTEXT of the passage



Having now examined these other uses of various forms of teleios, we are ready to more closely examine 1 Corinthians 13:10 in its context. Here we return to our key verse in this discussion. Because of an apparent bias that 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 refers to the end of time and to Christ in His return, most translators ignore the contrast of to teleion and ek merous. But the context, with this important contrast, is not to be ignored. Most translations render to teleion as "the perfect." However, honoring the context, the NRSV correctly translates it, "...but when the complete comes..."
"The complete (to teleion)" is clearly contrasted with ek merous, literally, out of pieces or parts. That which was "in part"--the knowledge of truth imparted through the gift of knowledge, the revelations of God's will imparted to believers through the gift of prophecy, and the disclosing of His will through the authorized interpretation of the tongues (languages) spoken by one with the gift of tongues--was to pass away and cease when "the teleion" would come. To teleion (usually translated "the perfect" but more properly translated "the complete" in the light of the contrasted terms in this context) was promised to come when that which was in part was to be done away. They would pass away because they were no longer needed. They were vital bits and pieces of God's will and truth being given progressively and incrementally until absorbed in the full deposit of His will and truth (the COMPLETE), and this was in the hands of the church and was widely distributed.
Several gifts or gifted offices were put in place when the church was in its infancy. God had a vital purpose to bring about through the use of these, and that purpose was thatthe church might be edified and firmly established in THE COMPLETED TRUTH THAT GOD WAS PROGRESSIVELY REVEALING.

Church of Christ - What is the "Perfect" in I Corinthians 13:10?


It's the SAME WORD in every instance. IT MUST BE DETERMINED FROM WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE PASSAGE.
It's no different in Greek then it is in an English when words HAVE MULTIPLE meanings.

COMPLETE is the proper translation. It's WHAT is completed is where most cessationists have in error.
Adam Clarke's Commentary:
But when that which is perfect—The state of eternal blessedness; then that which is in part—that which is imperfect, shall be done away; the imperfect as well as the probationary state shall cease for ever.


Barnes Commentary:
Verse 10. But when that which is perfect is come. Does come; or shall come. This proposition is couched in a general form. It means that when anything which is perfect is seen or enjoyed, then that which is imperfect is forgotten, laid aside, or vanishes. Thus, in the full and perfect light of day, the imperfect and feeble light of the stars vanishes. The sense here is, that in heaven-a state of absolute perfection-that which is "in part," or which is imperfect, shall be lost in superior brightness. All imperfection will vanish. And all that we here possess that is obscure shall be lost in the superior and perfect glory of that eternal world. All our present unsatisfactory modes of obtaining knowledge shall be unknown. All shall be clear, bright, and eternal.


Bible Background Commentary:
13:8-13. As in 1 Cor. 13:1-3, Paul demonstrates here that love is a greater virtue than the gifts; in this case it is because love is eternal, whereas the gifts are temporary. Some Old Testament prophets predicted the outpouring of the Spirit in the final time, accompanied by ability to speak under the Spirit’s inspiration (Joel 2:28); but other prophecies noted that all the citizens of the world to come would know God, hence there would be no reason for exhortation (Jeremiah 31:33-34). Paul believes that the time of the Spirit’s gifts, including mere human knowledge, is the current time, between Jesus’ first and second comings (cf. 1 Cor. 13:10, 12).


Bible Knowledge Commentary:
What Paul meant when he referred to the coming of perfection is the subject of considerable debate. One suggestion is that perfection described the completion of the New Testament. But verse 12 makes that interpretation unlikely. A few have suggested that this state of perfection will not be reached until the new heavens and new earth are established. Another point of view understands perfection to describe the state of the church when God’s program for it is consummated at the coming of Christ. There is much to commend this view, including the natural accord it enjoys with the illustration of growth and maturity which Paul used in the following verses.


Life Application Bible Notes:
13:10-12 When Paul wrote of "full understanding," he was referring to when we must see Christ face to face. God gives believers spiritual gifts for their lives on earth in order to build up, serve, and strengthen fellow Christians. The spiritual gifts are for the church. In eternity, we will be made perfect and complete and will be in the very presence of God. We will no longer need the spiritual gifts, so they will come to an end. Then, we will have a full understanding and appreciation for one another as unique expressions of God's infinite creativity. We will use our differences as a reason to praise God! Based on that perspective, let us treat each other with the same love and unity that we will one day share.


Matthew Henry Concise:
AND BY ITS ABIDING, AND ITS SUPERIORITY. 13:8-13
Charity is much to be preferred to the gifts on which the Corinthians prided themselves. From its longer continuance. It is a grace, lasting as eternity. The present state is a state of childhood, the future that of manhood. Such is the difference between earth and heaven. What narrow views, what confused notions of things, have children when compared with grown men! Thus shall we think of our most valued gifts of this world, when we come to heaven. All things are dark and confused now, compared with what they will be hereafter. They can only be seen as by the reflection in a mirror, or in the description of a riddle; but hereafter our knowledge will be free from all obscurity and error. It is the light of heaven only, that will remove all clouds and darkness that hide the face of God from us. To sum up the excellences of charity, it is preferred not only to gifts, but to other graces, to faith and hope. Faith fixes on the Divine revelation, and assents thereto, relying on the Divine Redeemer. Hope fastens on future happiness, and waits for that; but in heaven, faith will be swallowed up in actual sight, and hope in enjoyment. There is no room to believe and hope, when we see and enjoy. But there, love will be made perfect. There we shall perfectly love God. And there we shall perfectly love one another. Blessed state! how much surpassing the best below! God is love, 1Jn 4:8, 16. Where God is to be seen as he is, and face to face, there charity is in its greatest height; there only will it be perfected.


Word Pictures in the New Testament
That which is perfect (to teleion). The perfect, the full-grown (telos, end), the mature. See note on §1 Cor. 2:6. Hotan elthēi is second aorist subjunctive with hotan, temporal clause for indefinite future time.


Adult Questions for LESSONMaker
Why will prophecy, tongues, and knowledge pass away? (13:8-9)
How will we be different when we see Christ? (13:10-12)
What is our spiritual imperfection like? (13:11)
How do adults and children act and reason differently? (13:11)
How will our knowledge of God change when we see Christ? (13:12)
*What is the greatest of all gifts?


HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU WANT? Are you still not gonna believe?

 

[Stephen63]

Two,One near Chicago and the other near Milwaukee,the one near Milwaukee was also the same one my sister and I attended for a time. That was also the church that started saying prayers to the angel Michael She was in one near La Crosse,Wi.

There are wackos in every denomination. Plus, other Pentecostal denominations don't believe such.... not even UPC!

 

[RickShafer]

Any one that prays to angels hasn't read Hebrews.
I've never seen it.

I've seen (earlier this week), a catholic pray to a saint, but I have never, ever seen any church pray to angels.
- It was in Wisconsin? Did they also pray to Brett Favre?

- - I think much of the continual kicking against the pricks is a reaction to a bad experience in a 'SPIRIT FILLED' church.

 

[Apostol2013]

Nothing will be perfect until the believers are in their new bodies with Christ

 

[zone]

No, I don't care to pass out names to you for you to sneer at.

then the conversation with you is over - you got nuthin'
thx anyways.

 

[Kerry]

My,my, my such arguing among christians. This only goes to show that what you have been taught whether wrong or right PPl will defend to the inth degree. Folks tongues are biblical, there is no doubt about it. Many have tried to rid tongues by saying it has ceased. That is not biblical. The hardest thing most times is to unlearn what you have been taught. The cross is the most difficult thing for christians raised in church to understand. To get the full meaning of what happened at the cross you must unlearn what you have been taught. Tongues are a gift of the Holy Spirit and cannot be denied, they can only be denied by what you have been raised and taught by. The Holy Spirit has been crossing the lines and I pray He continues. More and more Southern Baptist preachers are speaking in tongues, some losing their church only to start new ones. The Spirit will continue to move despite mans effort to stop Him and you can bank on that!!!

 

[zone]

You mean like the numerous references to miracles and visions and such long after the Twelve had passed away? Especially in the second century, there is plenty of evidence that the church accepted miracle. Even during the time of the Montanists and later, the mainstream 'orthodox' or 'catholic' church accepted prophecy as a genuine gift.

no they didn't.

There were other churches that believed in or practiced spiritual gifts, apparently, before Parham's Bible college.

list them.

Parham did not have experience with the gift at that time. Maybe he hadn't dug deeply enough into I Corinthians 14.

dug deeply into 1 Corinthians?
they were occultists and spiritists and necromancers, bud.
read the history.

if they depart from sound doctrine exchanging the scripture for wailing and laughing and whatnot it's not of God.
simplez.

Probably a number of people who would later be Pentecostals speculated on such things. It could be Ozman's speaking in tongues in German and people recognizing it, if the Topeka newspaper article is to believed, that reinforced the idea.

were tongues known human languages at Pentecost?
of course they were.

you got something else going on.

gibbering in nonsense isn't of God. but have fun.

 

[zone]

My,my, my such arguing among christians. This only goes to show that what you have been taught whether wrong or right PPl will defend to the inth degree. Folks tongues are biblical, there is no doubt about it. Many have tried to rid tongues by saying it has ceased. That is not biblical. The hardest thing most times is to unlearn what you have been taught.

ya...i watched the instructional video - it said turn off your brain.

i don't think i'll be doing that.

satan appearing as an angel of light and such.

i don't need a burning in the bosom.

were tongues known human languages or not?

 

[Kerry]

ya...i watched the instructional video - it said turn off your brain.

i don't think i'll be doing that.

satan appearing as an angel of light and such.

i don't need a burning in the bosom.

were tongues known human languages or not?

You don't want the burning in your heart? MY, my, my. Tongues are a language that is or has been spoken on Earth and not learned. It is not the language of angels as some have said. Angels speak all the languages of Earth and so does satan and his crew. Tongues are biblical. It is a gift of The Holy Spirit and the evidence of being baptised in The Holy Spirit. Plainly the bible describes this. Most churches do not accept it and call it taboo, because they don't understand it nor can they control it. It goes against the flesh. I would also mention that the pentecostal movement came from Methodist and Baptist who were hungry for God and felt a burning in their heart for more of what God had to offer.