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A
And the statement above is why you get put back on my ignore list PeterJens. It was nice while it lasted, but you can't help but make assumptions about people you talk with.
Jesus is Lord. The discussion is how to wage a spiritual war against the lies the world propagates.
How to discern between good and evil.
Jesus is Lord. The discussion is how to wage a spiritual war against the lies the world propagates.
How to discern between good and evil.
Sorry. I thought the thread was about how to define the word possession meant.
We are called to be light in the darkness, by showing life and light, love and kindness,
support and listening to the ill and lost in the world.
Now as christians if we find in our hearts we do not overflow to others then this is
a problem.
Now the op had proposed to define what to be demonised meant after claiming
scripture or translations had got it wrong.
But it appears that this is simply not been done, so I suggest this is all a red
herring.
We are called to be light in the darkness, by showing life and light, love and kindness,
support and listening to the ill and lost in the world.
Now as christians if we find in our hearts we do not overflow to others then this is
a problem.
Now the op had proposed to define what to be demonised meant after claiming
scripture or translations had got it wrong.
But it appears that this is simply not been done, so I suggest this is all a red
herring.
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Lauren,
On another thread you said this
"I have had interaction with both sides of the spiritual realm and that is why I am super cautious."
What did you mean?
I wonder because you have said I was talking rubbish elsewhere,
and had no understanding etc. It always makes me a little puzzled
with such a response, but this potential background gives me some
insight to where you are coming from.
On another thread you said this
"I have had interaction with both sides of the spiritual realm and that is why I am super cautious."
What did you mean?
I wonder because you have said I was talking rubbish elsewhere,
and had no understanding etc. It always makes me a little puzzled
with such a response, but this potential background gives me some
insight to where you are coming from.
A
So Lauren..,, what are your thoughts?
I always remember that faith is a gift from God and found the story of Peter encouraging because even when we think we have been defeated by the enemy (Peter denied Jesus 3 times, it would have felt like betrayal of a friend and failure.) however, Jesus prayed and Peter was given enough faith to still hope. Even though he did not go to prison or die with Jesus.
Can you imagine how humbling that would be? It seems to me that Jesus used it to remind Peter to be encouraging to the brethren who feel weak and afraid. That they can have faith and endure whatever God calls them to. That God does not give us more than we can bear and if we find ourselves crushed, then maybe it wasn't God who asked us to be imprisoned but our own pride?
That was what I got from the second portion.
However I do wonder how much control demons have upon people and how much the person is still in control? Is there different levels of demonization?
If people preach doctrines of demons, then demons don't have to be even present. They just need one false minister to spread their lies.
What is different when demons are present versus, when they just have a minion?
I heard the theory that demons are fallen angels. Other say they are the nephilim after the flood, cursed to be bodiless spirits (don't believe it but it's in that book of Enoch folks want to believe is scriptures).
What do you believe demons are? Are they the same as evil spirits?
Wish I had time to learn Greek, maybe when kids go to college.
I always remember that faith is a gift from God and found the story of Peter encouraging because even when we think we have been defeated by the enemy (Peter denied Jesus 3 times, it would have felt like betrayal of a friend and failure.) however, Jesus prayed and Peter was given enough faith to still hope. Even though he did not go to prison or die with Jesus.
Can you imagine how humbling that would be? It seems to me that Jesus used it to remind Peter to be encouraging to the brethren who feel weak and afraid. That they can have faith and endure whatever God calls them to. That God does not give us more than we can bear and if we find ourselves crushed, then maybe it wasn't God who asked us to be imprisoned but our own pride?
That was what I got from the second portion.
However I do wonder how much control demons have upon people and how much the person is still in control? Is there different levels of demonization?
If people preach doctrines of demons, then demons don't have to be even present. They just need one false minister to spread their lies.
What is different when demons are present versus, when they just have a minion?
I heard the theory that demons are fallen angels. Other say they are the nephilim after the flood, cursed to be bodiless spirits (don't believe it but it's in that book of Enoch folks want to believe is scriptures).
What do you believe demons are? Are they the same as evil spirits?
Wish I had time to learn Greek, maybe when kids go to college.
P
biblical reference for biblical study
https://bible.org/seriespage/survey-bible-doctrine-angels-satan-demons
https://bible.org/seriespage/survey-bible-doctrine-angels-satan-demons
A
Poor peterjens, you have the mistaken impression that this thread is for you. This labeling anything that does not fit what you want from the thread a "red herring".
When in truth, Lauren created this thread so we could discuss scriptures and what we have learnt about demons, the spiritual war, victory over satan, spiritual gifts, armor of God or anything of that nature.
I for one am not going to debate you or try and get you to understand what I believe because it's pointless, when you are in this mood where you get abrasive and argumentative.
So I will pray for you and wish you a good day. Then go and listen to the last sermon Prodigal posted.
When in truth, Lauren created this thread so we could discuss scriptures and what we have learnt about demons, the spiritual war, victory over satan, spiritual gifts, armor of God or anything of that nature.
I for one am not going to debate you or try and get you to understand what I believe because it's pointless, when you are in this mood where you get abrasive and argumentative.
So I will pray for you and wish you a good day. Then go and listen to the last sermon Prodigal posted.
I have been for many years a person who believed it was better to cling to Jesus and the Word of God, than worry about the devil. However, that means I forgot my family history.
My husband got extremely sick a year after we were married, and he never really recovered. He was on prophylactic antibiotics for quite a few years. (We found out in 2008 these infections were caused by having no spleen to filter Strep and Staph infections - a pneumoccous vaccine helped a lot - one which we failed to renew every 5 years when we moved provinces and changed doctors.)
Anyway, back in the early years, I kept having these dreams about something grabbing his shoulder. It had all these legs that were embedded in my husband, and it could not be torn off without hurting him. One Sunday, we went to church, and the pastor preached on this topic - and how demons do not possess Christians, (with a lot of Scripture) but they can oppress people. Then he used the illustration of something grabbing on your shoulder (the same shoulder I saw in my dreams) and how you couldn't rip it off. He said you had to break each leg separately to receive freedom, and much prayer against the demons. We were both stunned. He went up for prayer, and that is when each leg started to break. I don't remember what each leg was, but he has been better, except the one time we forgot the vaccine, which was one of the legs.
So yes, I forgot that amazing vision and confirmation from God, as well as his physical healing. I just kept clinging to God, which is not a bad thing, but doesn't fully address this issue.
So I got a book called "Moving Mountains" by John Eldridge, last time I was in a Christian bookstore. God told me to buy it.And the first time I was in a bookstore in years, choosing to use on-line sources for books.
It was a nice book, but I really held back a bit. Then he got to the chapters on oppression and talked a lot about it. I didn't like it. So I prayed more. Then I read a bit more. I prayed more, and God said, "Why don't you try some of these prayers?" So i did! I felt a lot of oppression lifting.
So now, I am convinced we do have to be aware of the authority we have in Jesus Christ over all manner of things. And trust that God is in control, but he also wants us to grow up into the image of Christ, and that does include the authority he has given us over demonic forces, and yes, asking for help from angels - they are real, too!
By the way, I do recommend this book. It is a keeper!
My husband got extremely sick a year after we were married, and he never really recovered. He was on prophylactic antibiotics for quite a few years. (We found out in 2008 these infections were caused by having no spleen to filter Strep and Staph infections - a pneumoccous vaccine helped a lot - one which we failed to renew every 5 years when we moved provinces and changed doctors.)
Anyway, back in the early years, I kept having these dreams about something grabbing his shoulder. It had all these legs that were embedded in my husband, and it could not be torn off without hurting him. One Sunday, we went to church, and the pastor preached on this topic - and how demons do not possess Christians, (with a lot of Scripture) but they can oppress people. Then he used the illustration of something grabbing on your shoulder (the same shoulder I saw in my dreams) and how you couldn't rip it off. He said you had to break each leg separately to receive freedom, and much prayer against the demons. We were both stunned. He went up for prayer, and that is when each leg started to break. I don't remember what each leg was, but he has been better, except the one time we forgot the vaccine, which was one of the legs.
So yes, I forgot that amazing vision and confirmation from God, as well as his physical healing. I just kept clinging to God, which is not a bad thing, but doesn't fully address this issue.
So I got a book called "Moving Mountains" by John Eldridge, last time I was in a Christian bookstore. God told me to buy it.And the first time I was in a bookstore in years, choosing to use on-line sources for books.
It was a nice book, but I really held back a bit. Then he got to the chapters on oppression and talked a lot about it. I didn't like it. So I prayed more. Then I read a bit more. I prayed more, and God said, "Why don't you try some of these prayers?" So i did! I felt a lot of oppression lifting.
So now, I am convinced we do have to be aware of the authority we have in Jesus Christ over all manner of things. And trust that God is in control, but he also wants us to grow up into the image of Christ, and that does include the authority he has given us over demonic forces, and yes, asking for help from angels - they are real, too!
By the way, I do recommend this book. It is a keeper!
A
Highlight!
I. The Activity of Demons
Demons are involved in carrying out Satan’s evil plans (2 Cor.11:15). What Satan is said to be doing (see above) is their work directly.
A. Demons promote idolatry (Lev.17:7; Deut.32:17; Ps.106:36-38). This activity is blatant in primitive cultures.
B. Demons are active in hindering the spiritual progress of believers every way they can (see Satan’s activities). They are deliberate and organized in these attempts (Eph.6:10-12).
C. Demons promote false teaching (1 Tim.4:1).
D. Demons can possess and afflict people (see supplement).
1. They cause physical ailments (dumbness – Matt.9:32,33; blindness – Matt.12:22; convulsions – Matt.17:15-18; Mark 9:20; self-injury – Mark 5:5; 9:22).
2. They cause mental disorders (withdrawal, nudity, filth, irrational behavior – Luke 8:27-29; suicidal mania – Mark 9:22).
3. They inflict problems upon believers as well, if allowed by God (Job’s troubles – Job 2:7-9; Paul’s "thorn in the flesh": - 2 Cor. 12:7).
E. Demons promote selfishness and division in the church (James 3:13-16).
I. The Activity of Demons
Demons are involved in carrying out Satan’s evil plans (2 Cor.11:15). What Satan is said to be doing (see above) is their work directly.
A. Demons promote idolatry (Lev.17:7; Deut.32:17; Ps.106:36-38). This activity is blatant in primitive cultures.
B. Demons are active in hindering the spiritual progress of believers every way they can (see Satan’s activities). They are deliberate and organized in these attempts (Eph.6:10-12).
C. Demons promote false teaching (1 Tim.4:1).
D. Demons can possess and afflict people (see supplement).
1. They cause physical ailments (dumbness – Matt.9:32,33; blindness – Matt.12:22; convulsions – Matt.17:15-18; Mark 9:20; self-injury – Mark 5:5; 9:22).
2. They cause mental disorders (withdrawal, nudity, filth, irrational behavior – Luke 8:27-29; suicidal mania – Mark 9:22).
3. They inflict problems upon believers as well, if allowed by God (Job’s troubles – Job 2:7-9; Paul’s "thorn in the flesh": - 2 Cor. 12:7).
E. Demons promote selfishness and division in the church (James 3:13-16).
L
truly all I was hoping for
so much truth that is being brought to the table...
ARIEL
'bout sums it up
we need to take this subject matter out of the dark (where the devil likes it) and bring it into the light...where the Holy Spirit enables us to understand what we need to know and encourage each other
the devil is a created being and has no power over our God and he is already defeated
Christians are often woefully ignorant on the subject and don't understand they can be a target because of their faith
actually, it is a wonderful and perfect victory that we have and to be a part of helping people get free and stay free and point them to the word and get them studying and living for God..gives meaning to our lives on this earth
read your post Angela...thank you for posting that....
will be in and out
again, really, thanks so much guys!!!
so much truth that is being brought to the table...
ARIEL
'bout sums it up
we need to take this subject matter out of the dark (where the devil likes it) and bring it into the light...where the Holy Spirit enables us to understand what we need to know and encourage each other
the devil is a created being and has no power over our God and he is already defeated
Christians are often woefully ignorant on the subject and don't understand they can be a target because of their faith
actually, it is a wonderful and perfect victory that we have and to be a part of helping people get free and stay free and point them to the word and get them studying and living for God..gives meaning to our lives on this earth
read your post Angela...thank you for posting that....
will be in and out
again, really, thanks so much guys!!!
brother Peter,
you must recognize that the 'red-herring' is yours and yours alone, created by yourself and
your thoughts,..this is fine if this gives you something to substantiate your beliefs...
this does not mean that others feelings and thoughts and convictions are not proper for where
they are in their Spiritual Journey,,,you must not take offense or fear what others have experienced
or have been shown by their Maker, Jesus Christ...it is unkind to imply that they are not of God just
because you don't understand where they are in their walk or by how much The Holy Spirit has revealed
to them...
it is obvious that most of the posters Love their Lord and Creator and serve Him, thus they would
be your sisters and brothers in Christ...you are showing a lack of confidence and trust
and these two things always come from within a lacking/need within ourselves....
I have found this to be so from past experience in my own past weaknesses...GBY
you must recognize that the 'red-herring' is yours and yours alone, created by yourself and
your thoughts,..this is fine if this gives you something to substantiate your beliefs...
this does not mean that others feelings and thoughts and convictions are not proper for where
they are in their Spiritual Journey,,,you must not take offense or fear what others have experienced
or have been shown by their Maker, Jesus Christ...it is unkind to imply that they are not of God just
because you don't understand where they are in their walk or by how much The Holy Spirit has revealed
to them...
it is obvious that most of the posters Love their Lord and Creator and serve Him, thus they would
be your sisters and brothers in Christ...you are showing a lack of confidence and trust
and these two things always come from within a lacking/need within ourselves....
I have found this to be so from past experience in my own past weaknesses...GBY
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This is a real testimony which I was looking for. It is always hard to believe what effects
us and how it works and comes into being.
What touches me is you found victory is sharing need, getting prayer and reaching out to
the Lord. I know I know nothing about this type of thing, other than the Lord brings us
victory if we listen to Him and walk.
Thankyou for sharing.
us and how it works and comes into being.
What touches me is you found victory is sharing need, getting prayer and reaching out to
the Lord. I know I know nothing about this type of thing, other than the Lord brings us
victory if we listen to Him and walk.
Thankyou for sharing.
Not sure what you are trying to say. Does Jesus give us the victory? Is the cross the power
of God in our lives? Are we made holy and free?
So when people raise things that appear to put this into doubt am I wrong to what something
more substantial than a word is translated in correctly and demons do not possess people but
people possess them. This all has zero biblical foundation, yet you appear to be saying I should
just give in. Not how following Jesus words though.
of God in our lives? Are we made holy and free?
So when people raise things that appear to put this into doubt am I wrong to what something
more substantial than a word is translated in correctly and demons do not possess people but
people possess them. This all has zero biblical foundation, yet you appear to be saying I should
just give in. Not how following Jesus words though.
There is an important distinction we need to make as well. God has told us in His word that the spiritual is more real than the natural. Remember in the OT when Elisha was praying with his servant and his servant saw only the forces surrounding the people. Elisha had him see the angelic host which surrounded the enemy.
Similarly, many people forget that Satan and his demons also are spiritual. They are very real.
This does not mean we quake and fear at the fact that Satan is spiritual and can affect us spiritually. It means we do need to put on our armor and stand against him. And the only way we can stand against Him is by being submitted to God.
1) Submit to God
2) Resist the Devil
Without being submitted to the Lord, we can open doors making it very difficult to resist and making us very open to oppression.
Like you have stated before, many Christians today do not like to talk about Satan and his demons and just say cling to the cross of Christ and nothing can affect you. When we come into a born again life, we have to realize that by standing in the truth, we will be accosted by the enemy. When we speak the words of truth, we will come into opposition.
I think that some other points of discussion would be the threefold attack Satan takes on born again believers.
The Flesh - Satan appeals to our flesh and tries to make us stumble through the flesh. Remember, the very nature of our flesh is against the ways and will of God.
The World - the tenets of the world are also in opposition to the Lord. Satan is behind the major powers of the earth. This is why the focus on humanism and possibly even transhumanism have been taking the major stage in the minds of the world. We have attacks against God's absolute truth at every turn, forcing our children to accept Evolution, LGBT, man being the authority instead of God, etc.
Direct spiritual attack by the Enemy and his demons is the other method of attack, and many people, even born-again believers can be spiritually oppressed to the breaking point.
Some years ago I had a thought. The Lord gives us authority spirituality, like a weapon we
could us, but if we do not, we let the enemy take control and do things, because we have
the rights and the Lord calls us to exercise them.
It is like kids in playground. If we have no boundaries or restrictions, or prayer or limitations
on what the enemy can do, then he will do whatever comes to his mind.
So for me the focus we should have is how to exercise the authority in the spiritual realm.
I remember a pastor talking about a conviction to pray for people travelling on a train near
where he lived going off to commit suicide. After continual prayer things started to change.
As people of light we walk with a real heritage in this world. But often we do not encourage
one another to see the abject need and problems all around us. For instance depression among
young men is getting close to the main cause of death among them.
I am speaking partly to myself here, we need a clearer vision how to reach out and help bring
this light into people whose lives have become so dark and painful, they want to literally stop
living.
could us, but if we do not, we let the enemy take control and do things, because we have
the rights and the Lord calls us to exercise them.
It is like kids in playground. If we have no boundaries or restrictions, or prayer or limitations
on what the enemy can do, then he will do whatever comes to his mind.
So for me the focus we should have is how to exercise the authority in the spiritual realm.
I remember a pastor talking about a conviction to pray for people travelling on a train near
where he lived going off to commit suicide. After continual prayer things started to change.
As people of light we walk with a real heritage in this world. But often we do not encourage
one another to see the abject need and problems all around us. For instance depression among
young men is getting close to the main cause of death among them.
I am speaking partly to myself here, we need a clearer vision how to reach out and help bring
this light into people whose lives have become so dark and painful, they want to literally stop
living.
L
can you imagine Jesus praying for you? that's mind blowing IMO!
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.
4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham.
6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
Jesus Like Melchizedek
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[SUP]a[/SUP]
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’ ”[SUP]b[/SUP]
22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[SUP]c[/SUP] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.28For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
so, we always have a way made for us into the presence of God and Jesus saves completely..as He did Peter...each of us
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Peter was not punished or left out...He was invited by Jesus and participated in the 'haul' of fish...we cut ourselves off when we do not feel worthy..we cannot make ourselves worthy..Jesus says come anyway...I have made the way for you
I certainly think there are. In the NT we see different levels of demonization people who did not know they had a demon..ie the man in the synagogue
21They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. 22The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.
23Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out,24“What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”25“Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!” 26The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. Mark 1
from that, all the way to the man in the tombs who came into his right mind after Jesus cast out all the demons in him...legion they called themselves..prior to being set free by Jesus, he went about naked, chains could not contain him and he cut himself and of course terrorized everyone. You can see the end result of what demons seek to do in this person..destroy and take control.
so you have both ends of the spectrum and of course from the old through the new, we see demons altering human behavor...in the OT for example, we have Saul throwing a spear at David...the Bible states that when David sang and played, the moods Saul would get into would be quieted..so here we see a demon or demons, responsible for depression and anger and jealousy
and so on
I think the demons are present in the one that preaches such things...if not in, certainly around. accepting false doctrine is very dangerous...it is not biblical to just accept any and all things spiritual as from God just because they happened in a church or house meeting or because they make you feel good...there are entire movements that are deceptive and some are subtle..things are presented to appear acceptable to the person..the devil comes as an angel of light...when I say devil here, I mean the demons, not the devil personally
for most of my life I have believed they are fallen angels...I think that has always been a very acceptable and 'safe' belief
now, I am not sure of that and I would have to say that I believe I do not really know
you?
Wish I had time to learn Greek, maybe when kids go to college
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.
4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham.
6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
Jesus Like Melchizedek
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[SUP]a[/SUP]
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’ ”[SUP]b[/SUP]
22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[SUP]c[/SUP] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.28For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
so, we always have a way made for us into the presence of God and Jesus saves completely..as He did Peter...each of us
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Peter was not punished or left out...He was invited by Jesus and participated in the 'haul' of fish...we cut ourselves off when we do not feel worthy..we cannot make ourselves worthy..Jesus says come anyway...I have made the way for you
I certainly think there are. In the NT we see different levels of demonization people who did not know they had a demon..ie the man in the synagogue
21They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. 22The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.
23Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out,24“What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”25“Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!” 26The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek. Mark 1
from that, all the way to the man in the tombs who came into his right mind after Jesus cast out all the demons in him...legion they called themselves..prior to being set free by Jesus, he went about naked, chains could not contain him and he cut himself and of course terrorized everyone. You can see the end result of what demons seek to do in this person..destroy and take control.
so you have both ends of the spectrum and of course from the old through the new, we see demons altering human behavor...in the OT for example, we have Saul throwing a spear at David...the Bible states that when David sang and played, the moods Saul would get into would be quieted..so here we see a demon or demons, responsible for depression and anger and jealousy
and so on
I think the demons are present in the one that preaches such things...if not in, certainly around. accepting false doctrine is very dangerous...it is not biblical to just accept any and all things spiritual as from God just because they happened in a church or house meeting or because they make you feel good...there are entire movements that are deceptive and some are subtle..things are presented to appear acceptable to the person..the devil comes as an angel of light...when I say devil here, I mean the demons, not the devil personally
for most of my life I have believed they are fallen angels...I think that has always been a very acceptable and 'safe' belief
now, I am not sure of that and I would have to say that I believe I do not really know
you?
Wish I had time to learn Greek, maybe when kids go to college
L
that is really an extraordinary way that God led you and set your husband free and at the same time introduced you to the reality of the negative spiritual forces that can be directed at us
you mention oppression...
1.to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power:a people oppressed by totalitarianism.
2.to lie heavily upon (the mind, a person, etc.):Care and sorrow oppressed them.
3.to weigh down, as sleep or weariness does.
4.Archaic. to put down; subdue or suppress.
5.Archaic. to press upon or against; crush.
it is accurate in portraying the feelings that can be experienced by a person and accurate in describing the actions of a demon...none of that has to be internal either
P
So you got a scary movie...click off goes the tv. A story or two ..bad dreams maybe .
Those of you who are foolish enough to think that our opposition is a piece of cake need to know the wisdom of this thread.
I have experienced first hand what is being taught and shown here. I will not go into details but to say I saw a Christian home ripped a part. Heard things, and seen not worth repeating. It took 2yrs. To get any kind of peace.
I will never forget that battle and praise God for his rescue. Saints the best strategy of war is to know your enemy. He is a lion, his hate for you is enormous. He has no mercy, he wants you dead. Worst of all he's not dumb by any means.
Good insightful thread here...keep up the good work grumpy
Those of you who are foolish enough to think that our opposition is a piece of cake need to know the wisdom of this thread.
I have experienced first hand what is being taught and shown here. I will not go into details but to say I saw a Christian home ripped a part. Heard things, and seen not worth repeating. It took 2yrs. To get any kind of peace.
I will never forget that battle and praise God for his rescue. Saints the best strategy of war is to know your enemy. He is a lion, his hate for you is enormous. He has no mercy, he wants you dead. Worst of all he's not dumb by any means.
Good insightful thread here...keep up the good work grumpy