Clergy.

[Stephen63]

Gee whiz, Yet, if you want to get to the core issues within the church, it's not the "clergy" so much as it is the "elder boards" that actually run the church! It's been my experience that elder boards do more damage to a church than any pastor..... they're the ones that tell him what to do.

Show me a church that has evil running it & I'll show you a church that has a corrupt board managing it like they own it.

 

[Kefa54]

I totally agree but I know two, one man/preacher church's with no elders or deacons. They are quite interesting in the wrong way.


Kefa

Gee whiz, Yet, if you want to get to the core issues within the church, it's not the "clergy" so much as it is the "elder boards" that actually run the church! It's been my experience that elder boards do more damage to a church than any pastor..... they're the ones that tell him what to do.

Show me a church that has evil running it & I'll show you a church that has a corrupt board managing it like they own it.

 

[PeterJens]

You need full time people in the church, it is simply to big a community and too difficult a task without someone to administer, co-ordinate and manage the needs on a simple level.

The task is often so complicated and the needs too large, the sincere "clergy" have nervous breakdowns because they do not know when to say enough.

The other problem is to be professionally religious implies a sense of staying in one place, were often these same people wonder in and out of faith etc. It is then difficult for them to admit their spiritual position because their income is dependent on walking with the Lord.

I met one vicar who said "I do not know if I am buddhist, hindu or christian" which is fine for a member of a fellowship going through a hard time, but not for the leader of a church or fellowship. But he did not resign or anything, so it is no wonder many churches fail or slowly slip away, because the "leaders" are not what they appear.

 

[Yet]

The OP has a serious problem with church.

Well I was kinda hoping that everyone, in light of the scriptures I point to, would have a problem with organized religion.

Those traditions of men are stubborn suckers, dontchaknow?

 

[Yet]

Gee whiz, Yet, if you want to get to the core issues within the church, it's not the "clergy" so much as it is the "elder boards" that actually run the church! It's been my experience that elder boards do more damage to a church than any pastor..... they're the ones that tell him what to do.

Show me a church that has evil running it & I'll show you a church that has a corrupt board managing it like they own it.

Well gee wiz. Smile. The appointed pastor causes more damage than good, even unintentionally. I could rewrite the article here but it would be easier for this old guy if you'd just go read it. Have your bible handy. Then when your done there go to truth for free and keep studying. I love that word free. Has anyone noticed that I don't charge a dime for all my teaching efforts here?

 

[Kefa54]

I honestly want to understand your position. BUT with out one reference to scripture I can't agree.

The entire article you refered to didn't have any scripture to back it up.


Kefa

 

[Kefa54]

The other day I talked to a fine young man. He said he didn't go to church because it was full of hypocrites.

Uhm...Never mind.

Kefa

 

[Yet]

Here's some scripture my dear kind friend. I've used these and other verses about a million times. Nobody's getting it but a few. Read all my threads. I use scripture all day long.
3John vs.9 I wrote unto the ecclesia but Diotrephes, who loved the preeminence among them, didn't receive us.

Why didn't he write to the senior pastor? Was he off in the Bahamas checking on the mission work? Enquiring mind wants to know. Come to ponder on it. There's not one letter written to any Pastor Awesome! Imagine that!

Preeminence....hmmmm....what does that mean? It means he was elevating himself into an upper level status as chief pastor over God's heritage. He wanted to be the clergy man renown! Making a division! Everyone special but Diotrephes more special than the special. Isn't that special?
Ouch! Don't you just love the simple word of God? I know I do!

2Tim.3:4 ....high minded....Greek: typhoomai: lifted up with pride. Ouch again?

1Tim6:17 high minded:Greek: hypselophroneo: to be arrogant. Ooooo..somebody stop me!

Romans 11:20 Same as 1Tim. 6:17 ...ego tickled. Bong! Don't you just love God's word?

3John clearly tells us that no one individual is to 'lord it over God's heritage'. See: Matt.20. That one will mess you up good.

I just love what Jesus said in Matt. 20 when He said(by the way, Jesus is the Mighty God) 'but it shall not be so among you'! What was Almighty God saying? Not one man shall try for the preeminence among them! You are all brothers, shoulder level!

One Head! Not two! No, no, no, it's not a man, like at your church, it's Christ! Get over it! And the body is not one member but many! All functioning in turn. Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! I gotta headache. Smile! Be free. Be blessed. Broken record bids thee goodnight!
Loving that bible! Don't you! Sure you do. You know you do!

 

[Kefa54]

Something I learned a long time ago. If I have to feel like I beat a person in a discussion? That is the flesh and pride jumping in the discussion.

These discussions here are not competitions.

Kefa

 

[Yet]

Something I learned a long time ago. If I have to feel like I beat a person in a discussion? That is the flesh and pride jumping in the discussion.

These discussions here are not competitions.

Kefa

Kefa, I love you already. Just before I read your post here guess what I was thinking? Just seconds ago. Iron sharpens iron but we don't have to beat each other in the head with those irons! Wow! That's the Holy Spirit my kind brother.
Ill keep on sharing his beautiful word but pray for me that I don't get my back up. And when I'm proven wrong, I'll humbly bow my head and cry. Smile. The old stinkin' flesh you know. Get my feathers outta joint ya know. Don't wanna go there.

 

[zzz98]

Here's some scripture my dear kind friend. I've used these and other verses about a million times. Nobody's getting it but a few. Read all my threads. I use scripture all day long.
3John vs.9 I wrote unto the ecclesia but Diotrephes, who loved the preeminence among them, didn't receive us.

Why didn't he write to the senior pastor? Was he off in the Bahamas checking on the mission work? Enquiring mind wants to know. Come to ponder on it. There's not one letter written to any Pastor Awesome! Imagine that!

Preeminence....hmmmm....what does that mean? It means he was elevating himself into an upper level status as chief pastor over God's heritage. He wanted to be the clergy man renown! Making a division! Everyone special but Diotrephes more special than the special. Isn't that special?
Ouch! Don't you just love the simple word of God? I know I do!

2Tim.3:4 ....high minded....Greek: typhoomai: lifted up with pride. Ouch again?

1Tim6:17 high minded:Greek: hypselophroneo: to be arrogant. Ooooo..somebody stop me!

Romans 11:20 Same as 1Tim. 6:17 ...ego tickled. Bong! Don't you just love God's word?

3John clearly tells us that no one individual is to 'lord it over God's heritage'. See: Matt.20. That one will mess you up good.

I just love what Jesus said in Matt. 20 when He said(by the way, Jesus is the Mighty God) 'but it shall not be so among you'! What was Almighty God saying? Not one man shall try for the preeminence among them! You are all brothers, shoulder level!

One Head! Not two! No, no, no, it's not a man, like at your church, it's Christ! Get over it! And the body is not one member but many! All functioning in turn. Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! I gotta headache. Smile! Be free. Be blessed. Broken record bids thee goodnight!
Loving that bible! Don't you! Sure you do. You know you do!

Isn't Timothy a pastor with two letters of the bible addressed to him personally?

 

[Yet]

Isn't Timothy a pastor with two letters of the bible addressed to him personally?

Yes, he was a co worker with Paul. A pastor among many pastors, shepherds, poimen, but not as the word pastor is defined today. Let me give you this. Let's say you just got saved an hour ago. Now your leading someone to the Lord or you are feeding someone the word of God that you have thus far discerned. You are a pastor. Shepherd. You are ministering to someone the word or maybe you bought someone a meal whose living on the street.
Pastoring is simply taking care of or ministering.

Did Paul write 'unto Pastor Tim'? No. Because God condemns religious titles. Matt.23

Paul left him at Ephesus for a season. Not forever, to straighten out some issues.

Did Paul tell Tim to set up an office with a shingle and start pulling tithes? No. That's all bogus.

Get in there, teach the word, get things squared away, then get out, and get back before winter, was the plan.

I just love the word of God!

 

[zzz98]

Yes, he was a co worker with Paul. A pastor among many pastors, shepherds, poimen, but not as the word pastor is defined today. Let me give you this. Let's say you just got saved an hour ago. Now your leading someone to the Lord or you are feeding someone the word of God that you have thus far discerned. You are a pastor. Shepherd. You are ministering to someone the word or maybe you bought someone a meal whose living on the street.
Pastoring is simply taking care of or ministering.

Did Paul write 'unto Pastor Tim'? No. Because God condemns religious titles. Matt.23

Paul left him at Ephesus for a season. Not forever, to straighten out some issues.

Did Paul tell Tim to set up an office with a shingle and start pulling tithes? No. That's all bogus.

Get in there, teach the word, get things squared away, then get out, and get back before winter, was the plan.

I just love the word of God!

I was just pointing out instructions to a pastor, Timothy, when you said there were none in the bible. I still don't agree with your assesment of pastors

 

[Yet]

One man or one another. This article is for the serious seekers of God's truth and design for His assembly of the ekklesia.

Enter if you dare. Be warned that the invented traditions of men are going to take a serious hit. Elvis sang a song with words 'I did it My Way'. Why don't we try God's way and see how that works. I'm just saying. Be free. Be blessed.

Building Up the Body - One Man or One Another? -- by Jon Zens

 

[zzz98]

One man or one another. This article is for the serious seekers of God's truth and design for His assembly of the ekklesia.

Enter if you dare. Be warned that the invented traditions of men are going to take a serious hit. Elvis sang a song with words 'I did it My Way'. Why don't we try God's way and see how that works. I'm just saying. Be free. Be blessed.

Building Up the Body - One Man or One Another? -- by Jon Zens

Frank Sinatra sang that song first

 

[Yet]

I was just pointing out instructions to a pastor, Timothy, when you said there were none in the bible. I still don't agree with your assesment of pastors

I never said said there were no pastors in the bible. I said that all elders are pastors. 1Peter5 and Acts 20

Totally wild how my words are so twisted beyond recognition. I wonder how that happens.

 

[Kefa54]

All of our elders preach from time to time. But it is obvious in our Church the pastor is the gifted teacher.



.

I never said said there were no pastors in the bible. I said that all elders are pastors. 1Peter5 and Acts 20

Totally wild how my words are so twisted beyond recognition. I wonder how that happens.

 

[Yet]

All of our elders preach from time to time. But it is obvious in our Church the pastor is the gifted teacher.



.

Some elders teach better than others. Fine. Kefa, for the twenty millionth time. The scriptures do not support the exaltation of one elder and given a salary. Or was that the trillionth time. I lost count. Help me out here. Smile.

Taking to liberals and Christians.

Talk to a liberal how his beliefs are destroying this country, and you get a blank stare.

Talk to a churched to death Christian how his beliefs are holding down the body of Christ, and you get a blank stare.

 

[Yet]

2Peter 2. ...even as there shall be false teachers among you, ...teaching damning falsehoods..denying(reject as unfounded) the Lord that bought them....and by greed will use twisted scripture to empty your wallet...their damnation is coming.
.....but these brute beasts speak evil of the scriptures they don't understand...shall utterly perish in their own corruption....
shall receive the reward of unrighteousness as they that count it joy to riot: Greek: tryphe: live in luxury, splendor, living in indulgence off the backs of the deceived ..........spots they are and blemishes, sporting: Greek: entryphao: revel, carouse, to party......with their own lies while they feast with you.......enticing unstable souls(Christians) ..with a heart they have trained in greedy practices.....cursed children who have forsaken the right way....and gone astray as Balaam who sold out Israel (the church) for a buck......

 

[Yet]

This just in. ...spots and blemishes they are...

Whoa baby...hold on to your crash helmet, buckle your seat belt. This is going to be an 'ouch 'moment!
These false teachers, by virtue of their presence in our assemblies, eat away as a cancer to the body of Christ.

So THAT'S the gut ache I had all those years sitting in that expensive pew. It's all beginning to make sense now.

Read: they are ....

Blemishes: to diminish or destroy that which is perfect.

Christ birthed His ekklesia saying it is good. His body holy. Perfect. Then comes the enemy, spewing forth a flood of falsehood through men by renouncing His way, instituting mans way, which is pagan deception, conquering the assembly of the saints, driving a stake into the very heart of the every member participation gathering, subduing it under his control by the deeds of the Nicolaitans, clerical/ laity distinction, forever subjecting the body of Christ to impotency, while one man with the forbidden title displaces Christ forcing Him outside the door where He continually knocks. (If only someone would hear and answer the door).
You are not going to get it but what more can I say?