Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

[Dave-L]

You surely are right! And some of the greatest heretics were also men who knew nothing of the original languages.

So how do you avoid being duped?

 

[Chester]

So how do you avoid being duped?

Now that is a good question! Just sit down with me and I will help you understand all these prophesies . . . LOL!

No, really - that is a really, really, really good question - and we must be very careful . . .
And there is not just a quick answer: I could say - "Listen to the Holy Spirit" - and that would be correct - but that has been abused by many, many people who claim their interpretation is "what the Spirit gave me".

For myself, I endeavor to interpret Scripture honestly and spiritually, but to hold my interpretation as just that - my interpretation. And then I listen to others, I keep studying, and keep listening to the Spirit, and sometimes "my interpretation" changes. (But God's inspired Word never changes! )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am not a Hebrew scholar - can't read it!
What I am pointing out is that you are quoting an English translation of a Greek translation of the Hebrew original.
Our modern English translations are directly translated from the Hebrew original.

The Septuagint definitely has value as a resource - I am not arguing that. It can be useful to help us understand how the Jews of the several centuries before Christ interpreted and understood the Old Testament.
It does not make sense, though, (to me at least) to use an English translation of the Septuagint to try to debunk someone's interpretation of Daniel's vision.

I don't see where the LXX translation supplies any difference in meaning (as Dave-L suggests... but seems nothing more than a ruse):

LXX -

Dan 9:25 -

καὶ G2532 γνώσῃ G1097 καὶ G2532 συνήσεις G4920 ἀπὸ G575 ἐξόδου G1841 λόγου G3056 τοῦ G3588 ἀποκριθῆναι G611 καὶ G2532 τοῦ G3588 οἰκοδομῆσαι G3618 Ιερουσαλημ G2419 ἕως G2193 χριστοῦ G5547 ἡγουμένου G2233 ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ G2033 καὶ G2532 ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα G1835 δύο G1417 καὶ G2532 ἐπιστρέψει G1994 καὶ G2532 οἰκοδομηθήσεται G3618 πλατεῗα G4113 καὶ G2532 τεῗχος G5038 καὶ G2532 ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ G3588 καιροί G2540


Dan 9:26 -

καὶ G2532 μετὰ G3326 τὰς G3588 ἑβδομάδας τὰς G3588 ἑξήκοντα G1835 δύο G1417 ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῗσμα G5545 καὶ G2532 κρίμα G2917 οὐκ G3756 ἔστιν G1510 ἐν G1722 αὐτῷ G846 καὶ G2532 τὴν G3588 πόλιν G4172 καὶ G2532 τὸ G3588 ἅγιον G40 διαφθερεῗ G1311 σὺν G4862 τῷ G3588 ἡγουμένῳ G2233 τῷ G3588 ἐρχομένῳ G2064 καὶ G2532 ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν G1722 κατακλυσμῷ G2627 καὶ G2532 ἕως G2193 τέλους G5056 πολέμου G4171 συντετμημένου G4932 τάξει G5010 ἀφανισμοῗς G854


Dan 9:27 -

καὶ G2532 δυναμώσει G1412 διαθήκην G1242 πολλοῗς G4183 ἑβδομὰς μία G1520 καὶ G2532 ἐν G1722 τῷ G3588 ἡμίσει G2255 τῆς G3588 ἑβδομάδος ἀρθήσεταί G142 μου G1473 θυσία G2378 καὶ G2532 σπονδή καὶ G2532 ἐπὶ G1909 τὸ G3588 ἱερὸν G2413 βδέλυγμα G946 τῶν G3588 ἐρημώσεων G2050 καὶ G2532 ἕως G2193 συντελείας G4930 καιροῦ G2540 συντέλεια G4930 δοθήσεται G1325 ἐπὶ G1909 τὴν G3588 ἐρήμωσιν G2050

____________

LXX - [bracketed words are filled in]

Dan 9:25 -[/B]

καὶ G2532 γνώσῃ G1097 [KNOW] καὶ G2532 συνήσεις G4920 [UNDERSTAND] ἀπὸ G575 [FROM] ἐξόδου G1841 [EXODUS (going forth)] λόγου G3056 [WORD / COMMAND / DECREE] τοῦ G3588 ἀποκριθῆναι G611 [TO BEGIN TO SPEAK (issuance / issued ['to give forth a decision [/judgment] from myself'])] καὶ G2532 τοῦ G3588 οἰκοδομῆσαι G3618 [TO BUILD] Ιερουσαλημ G2419 [JERUSALEM] ἕως G2193 [TILL / UNTO] χριστοῦ G5547 [CHRIST (MESSIAH)] ἡγουμένου G2233 [PRINCE] ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ G2033 [SEVEN SEVENS] καὶ G2532 ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα G1835 δύο G1417 [SIXTY-TWO SEVENS] καὶ G2532 ἐπιστρέψει G1994 [AGAIN (in Heb: H7725--used twice in this verse)] καὶ G2532 οἰκοδομηθήσεται G3618 [TO BUILD] πλατεῗα G4113 [STREET] καὶ G2532 τεῗχος G5038 [WALL] καὶ G2532 ἐκκενωθήσονται [_____ (anguish?? / troublous??)] οἱ G3588 καιροί G2540 [TIMES]

[compare with: https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-25.htm ]


Dan 9:26 -

καὶ G2532 μετὰ G3326 [WITH/ACCOMPANY (afterwards; in Heb: H310 hinder part)] τὰς G3588 ἑβδομάδας [SEVENS] τὰς G3588 ἑξήκοντα G1835 δύο G1417 [SIXTY-TWO] ἐξολεθρευθήσεται [_____(related to the G1835 word, I think <--)] χρῗσμα G5545 [ANOINTED] καὶ G2532 κρίμα G2917 [JUDGMENT / CUT OFF] οὐκ G3756 [NOT / NOTHING] ἔστιν G1510 [HAVE] ἐν G1722 [IN] αὐτῷ G846 [HIMSELF]
καὶ G2532 τὴν G3588 πόλιν G4172 [CITY] καὶ G2532 τὸ G3588 ἅγιον G40 [HOLY (things)] διαφθερεῗ G1311 [DESTROY] σὺν G4862 [(those) 'IDENTIFIED-WITH'] τῷ G3588 ἡγουμένῳ G2233 [PRINCE] τῷ G3588 ἐρχομένῳ G2064 [TO COME] καὶ G2532 ἐκκοπήσονται [____ (anguish?? / troublous??)] ἐν G1722 [IN] κατακλυσμῷ G2627 [FLOOD] καὶ G2532 ἕως G2193 [TILL / UNTO] τέλους G5056 [END] πολέμου G4171 [WAR] συντετμημένου G4932 [AN EXPIDITED DECREE] τάξει G5010 [ORDER / FIXED ARRANGEMENT] ἀφανισμοῗς G854 [DESTRUCTION]

[compare with: https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-26.htm ]


Dan 9:27 -

καὶ G2532 δυναμώσει G1412 [CONFIRM / STRENGTHEN] διαθήκην G1242 [COVENANT / TESTAMENT / WILL] πολλοῗς G4183 [MANY] ἑβδομὰς μία G1520 [ONE SEVEN] καὶ G2532 ἐν G1722 [IN] τῷ G3588 ἡμίσει G2255 [HALF] τῆς G3588 ἑβδομάδος [SEVEN] ἀρθήσεταί G142 [TAKE AWAY / CAUSE TO CEASE] μου G1473 [MY] θυσία G2378 [SACRIFICE / OFFERING] καὶ G2532 σπονδή [WITHOUT FORMAL TREATY / IMPLACABLE / WITHOUT TRUCE (/ to cause to cease??)] καὶ G2532 ἐπὶ G1909 [UPON] τὸ G3588 ἱερὸν G2413 [HOLY (things)] βδέλυγμα G946 [ABOMINATIONS] τῶν G3588 ἐρημώσεων G2050 [DESOLATIONS] καὶ G2532 ἕως G2193 [UNTIL / UNTO] συντελείας G4930 [END] καιροῦ G2540 [CONSUMMATION / TIME of the END] συντέλεια G4930 [END] δοθήσεται G1325 [POURED OUT (/ given?)] ἐπὶ G1909 [UPON] τὴν G3588 ἐρήμωσιν G2050 [DESOLATE]

[compare with: https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-27.htm ]



____________

As I've mentioned in past posts, the additional word/s "[prince] THAT SHALL COME" (v.26b) would be superfluous *IF* it were referring to the SAME person as in v.25. (To simply say, "he" or "the prince" [in the next verse] would suffice.) But instead, this is pointing to the one TO COME and aligns with a number of passages I've pointed out with this same "COME" *idea*, like "whose COMING [advent/arrival/presence/parousia]" 2Th2:9a (and what that parallels, which I won't go into in this post).

This passage is also SEQUENTIAL. Meaning, after the first one [messiah] is "CUT OFF" then later the city and the sanctuary are destroyed [70ad events] and then later after that is the "FOR ONE WEEK" thing [involving 'the prince that SHALL COME'].

 

[reneweddaybyday]

False Prophets do miracles so God can test us.

I believe we are tested by many things in this life, and God warns us to stay on track so that we are not led astray.

God gives us His Word so that we may know Him and not be taken captive. In Ephesians 4, we are instructed to grow up so that we are not tossed about by winds of doctrine:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive


False prophets lie in wait to deceive. iow, they don't just make a mistake. They purposefully deceive through trickery and/or subtle schemes.


The Lord Jesus Christ warned us about false prophets:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


We need to study God's Word so that we know truth from error when those false prophets come a-knocking.

 

[Diakonos]

So how do you avoid being duped?

-Don't make assumptions.
-Consult the whole Bible for every doctrine.
-Since "meaning exactly what you say" is the default of communication...Take God's Word at face value unless He indicates a figure of speech (and He does).
-Have a view of the Bible that is not in opposition to even a single passage.

Its called Dispensationalism.
We believe in a gap, yet there is no gap in our doctrine.

 

[Truth7t7]

-Don't make assumptions.
-Consult the whole Bible for every doctrine.
-Since "meaning exactly what you say" is the default of communication...Take God's Word at face value unless He indicates a figure of speech (and He does).
-Have a view of the Bible that is not in opposition to even a single passage.

Its called Dispensationalism.
We believe in a gap, yet there is no gap in our doctrine.

Dispensationalism falsely teaches that Daniels 69th week was Fulfilled at the cross of Calvary, and the 70th week will be fulfilled in the future revealing of the Antichrist?

That's a 70th week waiting for 2,000 years, if that ain't a gap what ya gonna call it?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Dispensationalism falsely teaches that Daniels 69th week was Fulfilled at the cross of Calvary...

Since that is exactly what the text says, and since the exact time from the decree of Cyrus to the crucifixion of Christ was 483 years, 69 weeks of years were indeed fulfilled at that time -- when Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself. (It should also be noted here that Ptolemy's Chronology (which is the basis of all chronologies), is off (in excess) by 83 years).

...and the 70th week will be fulfilled in the future revealing of the Antichrist?

Again, in view of the prophecies concerning the Antichrist in Daniel and other books, that is the only conclusion that can be drawn. The Antichrist has been allotted exactly 3 1/2 years for his reign, which leaves 3 1/2 years for the great Tribulation, for a total of 7 years (or one week or heptad of years).

That's a 70th week waiting for 2,000 years, if that ain't a gap what ya gonna call it?

What you are going to call it is a "Divinely Designed Gap". And here is the proof.

ACTS 1: THE GOSPEL AGE WOULD BEGIN AT PENTECOST
6 When they [the apostles] therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Even the apostles were not aware that the literal Kingdom of God on earth, as well as the redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel, would be postponed until the Gospel Age (Church Age) was completed -- until the fulness of the Gentiles had come into the Church. Thus they asked the above question, and were told that it was not for them to know the times and seasons. Neither was it for Daniel to know anything about the Church Age or the Gospel Age. Daniel was focused strictly on Israel and its future. Therefore he saw the 70 weeks as a continuous whole.

We also know -- without the shadow of a doubt -- that the 70th week is in the future, since Daniel 9:24 has NOT been fulfilled (and that is the key to this prophecy):

Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people [the Jews] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem]...
[1] to finish the transgression,
[2]and to make an end of sins,
[3]and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
[4] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
[5] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
[6] and to anoint the most Holy.

What does it mean "to bring in everlasting righteousness"? It means exactly what it says. That Israel and the whole world will be established in everlasting or eternal righteousness, in order for this prophecy to be fulfilled. So there are many things which must happen in the future to bring this about.

 

[cv5]

Dispensationalism falsely teaches that Daniels 69th week was Fulfilled at the cross of Calvary, and the 70th week will be fulfilled in the future revealing of the Antichrist?

That's a 70th week waiting for 2,000 years, if that ain't a gap what ya gonna call it?

Incorrect. Daniels 69th week was fulfilled at the Triumphal Entry, when Jesus presented Himself to Israel as their King.

 

[Truth7t7]

Incorrect. Daniels 69th week was fulfilled at the Triumphal Entry, when Jesus presented Himself to Israel as their King.

Correction, the 70 (Literal) weeks of Daniel are future weeks, and will start when a command is made in Jerusalem to rebuild the wall and street, and will end when the future Antichrist is revealed, the 3.5 year tribulation starts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Incorrect. Daniels 69th week was fulfilled at the Triumphal Entry, when Jesus presented Himself to Israel as their King.

Incorrect, Jesus triumphant entry ended the 69th week, “after 62 + 7 weeks shall be messiah the prince.

then we are told messiah is cut off (killed)

 

[garee]

Since that is exactly what the text says, and since the exact time from the decree of Cyrus to the crucifixion of Christ was 483 years, 69 weeks of years were indeed fulfilled at that time -- when Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself. (It should also be noted here that Ptolemy's Chronology (which is the basis of all chronologies), is off (in excess) by 83 years).

Again, in view of the prophecies concerning the Antichrist in Daniel and other books, that is the only conclusion that can be drawn. The Antichrist has been allotted exactly 3 1/2 years for his reign, which leaves 3 1/2 years for the great Tribulation, for a total of 7 years (or one week or heptad of years).

What you are going to call it is a "Divinely Designed Gap". And here is the proof.

ACTS 1: THE GOSPEL AGE WOULD BEGIN AT PENTECOST
6 When they [the apostles] therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Even the apostles were not aware that the literal Kingdom of God on earth, as well as the redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel, would be postponed until the Gospel Age (Church Age) was completed -- until the fulness of the Gentiles had come into the Church. Thus they asked the above question, and were told that it was not for them to know the times and seasons. Neither was it for Daniel to know anything about the Church Age or the Gospel Age. Daniel was focused strictly on Israel and its future. Therefore he saw the 70 weeks as a continuous whole.

We also know -- without the shadow of a doubt -- that the 70th week is in the future, since Daniel 9:24 has NOT been fulfilled (and that is the key to this prophecy):

Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people [the Jews] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem]...
[1] to finish the transgression,
[2]and to make an end of sins,
[3]and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
[4] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
[5] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
[6] and to anoint the most Holy.

What does it mean "to bring in everlasting righteousness"? It means exactly what it says. That Israel and the whole world will be established in everlasting or eternal righteousness, in order for this prophecy to be fulfilled. So there are many things which must happen in the future to bring this about.

The Kingdom of God is not on earth . His glory departed at the end of day three when it became corrupted . finding pride in the heart of Satan,

Believers are ambassadors as a kingdom of priest sent from the unseen city prepared as His bride. Our citizenship is not of this corrupted creation. When the time of reformation came (the veil was rent) .It exposed the many, many antichrists the man of sin or men that were there.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Kingdom of God is not on earth .

Not at present. But that does not mean that it will not be established as a literal, real, physical, spiritual, tangible Kingdom on earth in the future, AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. That is God's ultimate purpose for this earth.