Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

[Chester]

They all say the same thing, but the LXX makes it clear the prince is the same person each time mentioned = Jesus. Are you a Dispensationalist?

No, they do not all say the same thing (what I mean is that the wording in English is different), but you interpret them all the same way.

I don't know what you think a "dispensationalist" is? I just believe the Bible . . . LOL!

 

[Dave-L]

No, they do not all say the same thing (what I mean is that the wording in English is different), but you interpret them all the same way.

I don't know what you think a "dispensationalist" is? I just believe the Bible . . . LOL!

Do you believe in the pre-trib rapture? The millennium? Antichrist is yet future, not seen yet? A third temple? If so you are a Dispensationalist.

 

[Chester]

I do have some knowledge of Greek, and if I had the time I would analyze the Greek wording of the Septuagint. But I do not have time for that now. Furthermore, that would make little sense, for it is the Hebrew and not the Septuagint which is "God-breathed".

 

[Dave-L]

I do have some knowledge of Greek, and if I had the time I would analyze the Greek wording of the Septuagint. But I do not have time for that now. Furthermore, that would make little sense, for it is the Hebrew and not the Septuagint which is "God-breathed".

So you cannot trust any translation even though Jesus used one?

 

[Chester]

Do you believe in the pre-trib rapture? The millennium? Antichrist is yet future, not seen yet? A third temple? If so you are a Dispensationalist.

Well now you have more work because you will have to tell me what you mean by all of those terms . . . I am not just trying to avoid your question - but just the "millenium" - there are so many ideas what this thing is? So do I believe in "the millenium"? I can't answer that! I just believe what the Bible says. I just will stick with what the Bible says - you can call me what you want I guess.

 

[Chester]

So you cannot trust any translation even though Jesus used one?

Translations can be called trustworthy, yes. But translations are not "God-breathed".

 

[Dave-L]

Translations can be called trustworthy, yes. But translations are not "God-breathed".

So faith does not come by hearing the word and we are wasting our time studying the bible?

 

[Dave-L]

Well now you have more work because you will have to tell me what you mean by all of those terms . . . I am not just trying to avoid your question - but just the "millenium" - there are so many ideas what this thing is? So do I believe in "the millenium"? I can't answer that! I just believe what the Bible says. I just will stick with what the Bible says - you can call me what you want I guess.

You don't know what the bible says but just stick with that?

 

[Chester]

So faith does not come by hearing the word and we are wasting our time studying the bible?

LOL! Did I say we are wasting our time studying the Bible? I did not say that.

I just pointed out that your quote was not from the Septuagint, but from an English translation of it!

 

[Dave-L]

LOL! Did I say we are wasting our time studying the Bible? I did not say that.

I just pointed out that your quote was not from the Septuagint, but from an English translation of it!

But you cannot trust any translation? The Pharisees know Hebrew. Will you take their word?

 

[Chester]

You don't know what the bible says but just stick with that?

LOL! You are funny! So if you want it - here it is: Here is a key part of what the Bible says about the thousand years - what some people call the "millenium". This is what I believe:

(from Revelation 20)
1 Καὶ εἶδον ἄγγελον καταβαίνοντα ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ἔχοντα τὴν κλεῖν τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ ἅλυσιν μεγάλην ἐπὶ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ.

2 καὶ ἐκράτησεν τὸν δράκοντα, ὁ ὄφις ὁ ἀρχαῖος, ὅς ἐστιν Διάβολος καὶ ὁ Σατανᾶς, καὶ ἔδησεν αὐτὸν χίλια ἔτη,

3 καὶ ἔβαλεν αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν ἄβυσσον, καὶ ἔκλεισεν καὶ ἐσφράγισεν ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ, ἵνα μὴ πλανήσῃ ἔτι τὰ ἔθνη, ἄχρι τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη · μετὰ ταῦτα δεῖ λυθῆναι αὐτὸν ⸃ μικρὸν χρόνον.

4 Καὶ εἶδον θρόνους, καὶ ἐκάθισαν ἐπ’ αὐτούς, καὶ κρίμα ἐδόθη αὐτοῖς, καὶ τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν πεπελεκισμένων διὰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ καὶ διὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ οἵτινες οὐ προσεκύνησαν τὸ θηρίον οὐδὲ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἔλαβον τὸ χάραγμα ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτῶν · καὶ ἔζησαν καὶ ἐβασίλευσαν μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ χίλια ἔτη.

5 οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη. αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη.

6 μακάριος καὶ ἅγιος ὁ ἔχων μέρος ἐν τῇ ἀναστάσει τῇ πρώτῃ · ἐπὶ τούτων ὁ δεύτερος θάνατος οὐκ ἔχει ἐξουσίαν, ἀλλ’ ἔσονται ἱερεῖς τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τοῦ χριστοῦ, καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν μετ’ αὐτοῦ χίλια ἔτη.

7 Καὶ ὅταν τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη, λυθήσεται ὁ Σατανᾶς ἐκ τῆς φυλακῆς αὐτοῦ,

 

[Dave-L]

LOL! You are funny! So if you want it - here it is: Here is a key part of what the Bible says about the thousand years - what some people call the "millenium". This is what I believe:

(from Revelation 20)
1 Καὶ εἶδον ἄγγελον καταβαίνοντα ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ἔχοντα τὴν κλεῖν τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ ἅλυσιν μεγάλην ἐπὶ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ.

2 καὶ ἐκράτησεν τὸν δράκοντα, ὁ ὄφις ὁ ἀρχαῖος, ὅς ἐστιν Διάβολος καὶ ὁ Σατανᾶς, καὶ ἔδησεν αὐτὸν χίλια ἔτη,

3 καὶ ἔβαλεν αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν ἄβυσσον, καὶ ἔκλεισεν καὶ ἐσφράγισεν ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ, ἵνα μὴ πλανήσῃ ἔτι τὰ ἔθνη, ἄχρι τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη · μετὰ ταῦτα δεῖ λυθῆναι αὐτὸν ⸃ μικρὸν χρόνον.

4 Καὶ εἶδον θρόνους, καὶ ἐκάθισαν ἐπ’ αὐτούς, καὶ κρίμα ἐδόθη αὐτοῖς, καὶ τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν πεπελεκισμένων διὰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ καὶ διὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ οἵτινες οὐ προσεκύνησαν τὸ θηρίον οὐδὲ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἔλαβον τὸ χάραγμα ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτῶν · καὶ ἔζησαν καὶ ἐβασίλευσαν μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ χίλια ἔτη.

5 οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη. αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη.

6 μακάριος καὶ ἅγιος ὁ ἔχων μέρος ἐν τῇ ἀναστάσει τῇ πρώτῃ · ἐπὶ τούτων ὁ δεύτερος θάνατος οὐκ ἔχει ἐξουσίαν, ἀλλ’ ἔσονται ἱερεῖς τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τοῦ χριστοῦ, καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν μετ’ αὐτοῦ χίλια ἔτη.

7 Καὶ ὅταν τελεσθῇ τὰ χίλια ἔτη, λυθήσεται ὁ Σατανᾶς ἐκ τῆς φυλακῆς αὐτοῦ,

There is no millennium. The 100 years are a symbol of the binding of Satan. They are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.

 

[Chester]

But you cannot trust any translation? The Pharisees know Hebrew. Will you take their word?

The scholars who translated the English versions also knew Hebrew - Do I trust them? Not always - but mostly they did a good job.

Do I trust the Pharisees? - not always - Jesus called them some nasty names sometimes - but definitely the Septuagint can be helpful!

 

[Dave-L]

The scholars who translated the English versions also knew Hebrew - Do I trust them? Not always - but mostly they did a good job.

Do I trust the Pharisees? - not always - Jesus called them some nasty names sometimes - but definitely the Septuagint can be helpful!

How do you know the translators did a good job if you cannot read Hebrew?

 

[Chester]

There is no millennium. The 100 years are a symbol of the binding of Satan. They are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.

Is what you wrote there your English translation of Revelation 20?

Hey, you are allowed your interpretation. I have no problem with that. Just don't make your interpretation equal to "God-breathed" Scripture.

 

[Chester]

How do you know the translators did a good job if you cannot read Hebrew?

I have some good friends who read Hebrew!

 

[Dave-L]

Is what you wrote there your English translation of Revelation 20?

Hey, you are allowed your interpretation. I have no problem with that. Just don't make your interpretation equal to "God-breathed" Scripture.

Jesus teaches against millennialism. My interpretation comes from his view of it.

 

[Dave-L]

I have some good friends who read Hebrew!

Some of the greatest heretics were original language scholars.

 

[Chester]

Jesus teaches against millennialism. My interpretation comes from his view of it.

Now that is better - You are admitting this is your interpretation - and I have no problem with that . . .

 

[Chester]

Some of the greatest heretics were original language scholars.

You surely are right! And some of the greatest heretics were also men who knew nothing of the original languages.