Concerning the gift of tongues
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Hmm... the NIV and NASB have "mature" here, not "perfect". In English, they are very different concepts.
Stretched beyond the breaking point. It is unreasonable to believe that Paul's second letter to the Corinthians contains the explanation for a concept presented in his first letter. You have made the error of anachronism. Further, you're making the argument that Gentile Christians (who are probably unfamiliar with the Old Testament scriptures) would know and understand an oblique reference to an obscure passage in the Torah.
For your argument to be sound, it must be cohesive, congruent, and complete. You've failed to address the incomplete knowledge and to identify either the "imperfect" or the "perfect" adequately.
Verse 8 notes the pending cessation of knowledge, prophecies (plural), and tongues, all of which are gifts presented in the latter verses of chapter 12. These are all revelatory gifts, and it makes "perfect" sense that when there is no more need for revelation, then revelatory gifts will cease. Are we there yet? No.
If we had full knowledge (as we are fully known), then we wouldn't need to study Scripture. We wouldn't need preachers, and we wouldn't need to debate the meaning and application of Scripture. We still know in part, and still need the revelation that (at times) comes through study and prayer.
We don't yet see face to face. We aren't yet fully mature. We will get there, but not in this season. God still gives revelatory gifts including tongues because His church still needs them.
Stretched beyond the breaking point. It is unreasonable to believe that Paul's second letter to the Corinthians contains the explanation for a concept presented in his first letter. You have made the error of anachronism. Further, you're making the argument that Gentile Christians (who are probably unfamiliar with the Old Testament scriptures) would know and understand an oblique reference to an obscure passage in the Torah.
For your argument to be sound, it must be cohesive, congruent, and complete. You've failed to address the incomplete knowledge and to identify either the "imperfect" or the "perfect" adequately.
Verse 8 notes the pending cessation of knowledge, prophecies (plural), and tongues, all of which are gifts presented in the latter verses of chapter 12. These are all revelatory gifts, and it makes "perfect" sense that when there is no more need for revelation, then revelatory gifts will cease. Are we there yet? No.
If we had full knowledge (as we are fully known), then we wouldn't need to study Scripture. We wouldn't need preachers, and we wouldn't need to debate the meaning and application of Scripture. We still know in part, and still need the revelation that (at times) comes through study and prayer.
We don't yet see face to face. We aren't yet fully mature. We will get there, but not in this season. God still gives revelatory gifts including tongues because His church still needs them.
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yeah that verse says it all and you have not been able to disprove it's validity as for God revoking many gifts show me where in scripture he has said or done that if you continue to just give your opinion and no way of backing it up then I must assume you simply are unable to prove or disprove anything only give your opinion
besides that I went back and looked at your response to that verse and I wouldn't say you addressed it in fact you didn't disprove it in any way at all and still haven't so by all means do so otherwise you have lost this debate beaten by a single verse
besides that I went back and looked at your response to that verse and I wouldn't say you addressed it in fact you didn't disprove it in any way at all and still haven't so by all means do so otherwise you have lost this debate beaten by a single verse
INFLUENCE!
We were always told to stay away from the wrong crowd because of their influence on us!
Did Jesus argue with the Devil? NO!!
He/she who participates with/against ungodly mockers will take upon themselves at least some of their traits.
Thus the name-calling begins.
Did you ever notice that christians have a bad habit of going further with a mocker because they 'feel' justified by doing so?
That isn't the Spirit leading them to do that. They are being beguiled, tricked to comply with them so the mocker's arguments can continue, as they have done. The mocker then drags everyone down with him that argues with him.
Please, brethren, don't let him do that.
We were always told to stay away from the wrong crowd because of their influence on us!
Did Jesus argue with the Devil? NO!!
He/she who participates with/against ungodly mockers will take upon themselves at least some of their traits.
Thus the name-calling begins.
Did you ever notice that christians have a bad habit of going further with a mocker because they 'feel' justified by doing so?
That isn't the Spirit leading them to do that. They are being beguiled, tricked to comply with them so the mocker's arguments can continue, as they have done. The mocker then drags everyone down with him that argues with him.
Please, brethren, don't let him do that.
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No one will be able to present to you any verses proving that the "gifts" of current Pentecostals and their ilk is the same as practiced during the 1st Century Church.
If such verses existed they would have shown them long ago.
They are simply projecting their actions onto the events occurring in the New Testament text.
Also, there is no need for a "credible source" since they claim that the physical supernatural manifestations are not just in the past but actually ongoing. IOW, I don't need someone to show me a news article about a church healing people, I can just see the holes in the building's roof.
If such verses existed they would have shown them long ago.
They are simply projecting their actions onto the events occurring in the New Testament text.
Also, there is no need for a "credible source" since they claim that the physical supernatural manifestations are not just in the past but actually ongoing. IOW, I don't need someone to show me a news article about a church healing people, I can just see the holes in the building's roof.
let me inlighten you on something since you either refuse to accept it or just want to ignore it, no one claimed to have a physical supernatural manifestation as in the nt they only claimed to have the gifts of the spirit which is supernatural but you qwon't see tongues of fire on anyone. you still have not been able to refute Romans 11:29 you are just projecting at this point as you seem to do a lot. you also have a hibit of doing exactly what you accuse others of doing yet you don't have any issue doing so blindly as you either don't see yourself doing it or you simply don't care
You have lost this argument and have no leg to stand on all you do now is slander and just give your opinion
You have lost this argument and have no leg to stand on all you do now is slander and just give your opinion
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