Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johnson,
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Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Mat. 7:21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Those that refuse correction do NOT belong to God. You can't follow Christ following ungodly doctrine.
Mat. 7:21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Those that refuse correction do NOT belong to God. You can't follow Christ following ungodly doctrine.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
I saw this video a few years ago dealing with the Kundalini spirit warning.. But as for me i do not trust in any signs and wonders or supposed manifestations.. I disregard all signs and wonders in these end times and wait to hear what the preacher is preaching... You have to keep your guard up in these end times.. The Bible expressly warns that in the end times there would be lying signs and wonders..
Mark 13:KJV
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it
were possible, even the elect.
[video=youtube;2X1HC-3s3uI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1HC-3s3uI[/video]
I saw this video a few years ago dealing with the Kundalini spirit warning.. But as for me i do not trust in any signs and wonders or supposed manifestations.. I disregard all signs and wonders in these end times and wait to hear what the preacher is preaching... You have to keep your guard up in these end times.. The Bible expressly warns that in the end times there would be lying signs and wonders..
Mark 13:KJV
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it
were possible, even the elect.
[video=youtube;2X1HC-3s3uI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1HC-3s3uI[/video]
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
I think what happens with cessationists is that they are taught from the pulpit that charismatics are of the devil.
It is propaganda.
I saw a vid of a N Korean woman that said all they ever heard was that America was evil and their mortal enemy.
That is what they hear,till they have their eyes opened.
I think what happens with cessationists is that they are taught from the pulpit that charismatics are of the devil.
It is propaganda.
I saw a vid of a N Korean woman that said all they ever heard was that America was evil and their mortal enemy.
That is what they hear,till they have their eyes opened.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
You had 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 in your quote of my reply. Did you read it?
Paul written this after talking about the falling away from the faith and how that iniquity was already at work in his day in the 2 nd chapter of Thessalonians in how God permitted a strong delusion to occur for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, as it is about that iniquity because Paul reminded them of their faith in when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel; hence when they were saved. Then he expounded in the next chapter ( remember that originally, there were no chapters in his epistles to the churches ) about being delivered from those wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not walk after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as many of these movements of the spirit are with all that falling down and confusing stuff....as Paul by the Lord, commands us to withdraw, but not to treat them as teh enemy, but admonish them as brothers.
For if they do not repent, they will be excommunicated by God at the pre trib rapture event to hand them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh ( physical death ) so that their spirits may be saved in the day of Christ's return.
What the church fails to excommunicate, God will do for that very same purpose.
1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Make no mistake, a lot of believers have fallen away from the faith when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues or falling down or whatever when in according to our faith, Jesus Christ is in us. It is hypocrisy to say that He is in us and yet seek to receive Him again as if He is not in us.
Believers need to trust Jesus Christ now as their personal Good Shepherd to help them to see that apostasy to return to their first love and chase no more after seducing spirits to receive after a sign; to shun vain and profane babbling and pray normally so that they may know what they had prayed for to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name which is His will for us to do, and rest in Him that they are filled with the Spirit as a testimony that they are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. All eyes should be on the Bridegroom for He will be coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ, leaving those in the market place seeking to be filled, behind at the pre tribulational rapture event.
It is a damnation to become that vessel unto dishonor in His House because they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the door to the Marriage Supper is shut which is why those with His seal need to go to Jesus for help to discern and depart from this iniquity.
You had 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 in your quote of my reply. Did you read it?
Paul written this after talking about the falling away from the faith and how that iniquity was already at work in his day in the 2 nd chapter of Thessalonians in how God permitted a strong delusion to occur for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, as it is about that iniquity because Paul reminded them of their faith in when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth at the hearing of the gospel; hence when they were saved. Then he expounded in the next chapter ( remember that originally, there were no chapters in his epistles to the churches ) about being delivered from those wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not walk after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as many of these movements of the spirit are with all that falling down and confusing stuff....as Paul by the Lord, commands us to withdraw, but not to treat them as teh enemy, but admonish them as brothers.
For if they do not repent, they will be excommunicated by God at the pre trib rapture event to hand them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh ( physical death ) so that their spirits may be saved in the day of Christ's return.
What the church fails to excommunicate, God will do for that very same purpose.
1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Make no mistake, a lot of believers have fallen away from the faith when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues or falling down or whatever when in according to our faith, Jesus Christ is in us. It is hypocrisy to say that He is in us and yet seek to receive Him again as if He is not in us.
Believers need to trust Jesus Christ now as their personal Good Shepherd to help them to see that apostasy to return to their first love and chase no more after seducing spirits to receive after a sign; to shun vain and profane babbling and pray normally so that they may know what they had prayed for to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name which is His will for us to do, and rest in Him that they are filled with the Spirit as a testimony that they are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. All eyes should be on the Bridegroom for He will be coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ, leaving those in the market place seeking to be filled, behind at the pre tribulational rapture event.
It is a damnation to become that vessel unto dishonor in His House because they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the door to the Marriage Supper is shut which is why those with His seal need to go to Jesus for help to discern and depart from this iniquity.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Amen....I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....
How foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the "will of the Father" for salvation in being with the Lord when we die.
If we do not factor in the completed work of Christ for our salvation then we will come up with all kinds of man-made "works" we must do to "help" Jesus with our salvation.
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved without factoring in just what is the "will of the Father" for salvation which is what Jesus has already done for us.
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9 Good works do follow as a fruit of His life in us. Eph. 2:10 - but they do not produce salvation.
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
Amen....I have found at least 7 things about doing the will of God on this earth now that we are in Christ.
1) That we have eternal life in Christ - John 6:40
2) That we be filled with the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:16-21
3) That we live a pure, disciplined lifestyle - 1 Thess 4:3-4 ( we live out that holiness that is already in us in our new man ..created in Christ in righteousness and holiness )
4) That we are rejoicing in the Lord, praying without ceasing, and grateful - 1 Thess 5:16-18
5) That we be a law-abiding citizen - 1 Peter 2:13-16
6) That we believe and influence others to believe - 2 Peter 3:9
7) That we commit ourselves to God and other believers - 2 Cor 8:5
According to the works-based salvationists...if someone is not joyful one day or didn't pray for a couple of days...or was not grateful for a day or so and they died..then they would go to hell because they didn't do " the will of God"..( see #4 above )....
How foolish this nonsense is when we do not factor in the "will of the Father" for salvation in being with the Lord when we die.
If we do not factor in the completed work of Christ for our salvation then we will come up with all kinds of man-made "works" we must do to "help" Jesus with our salvation.
What about #5 above...if you speed and crash your car and die..you go to hell because you were not doing " the will of God"...again the complete foolishness of people that say..not doing the will of God are not saved without factoring in just what is the "will of the Father" for salvation which is what Jesus has already done for us.
The "doing of the will of God" for salvation is to believe on Christ and it is by grace through faith only - no works. Eph 2:8-9 Good works do follow as a fruit of His life in us. Eph. 2:10 - but they do not produce salvation.
The saint who rests in Christ and in His finished work is the will of God and what appears to be his free choices are actually God's will for him. It's loving God because you know His love for you, doing what is inside of you under His influence. Phil 2:13
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Since Jesus is a signs and wonders God,don't you think you need a little trust in Him?
That position you are taking is fear driven.
I/we are guaranteed gifts,power,and miracles.
It even says that "will a father put a scorpion in his childs hand that asks for a piece of bread"
You are,unwittingly,placing an evil dimension on the Heavenly Father.
Again. You are fear driven.
Since Jesus is a signs and wonders God,don't you think you need a little trust in Him?
That position you are taking is fear driven.
I/we are guaranteed gifts,power,and miracles.
It even says that "will a father put a scorpion in his childs hand that asks for a piece of bread"
You are,unwittingly,placing an evil dimension on the Heavenly Father.
Again. You are fear driven.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
I trust in God and His Word.. I do not trust in men and their signs and wonders... Especally when i have been warned in his Word to watch out for lying signs and wonders being used in the end times to lead people away from the truth and into deception.. I trust NO MAN.... Never..
God knows the truth ...
And fear and caution is good when it keeps one safe from danger..
I trust in God and His Word.. I do not trust in men and their signs and wonders... Especally when i have been warned in his Word to watch out for lying signs and wonders being used in the end times to lead people away from the truth and into deception.. I trust NO MAN.... Never..
God knows the truth ...
And fear and caution is good when it keeps one safe from danger..
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Any work of iniquity that is not repented of by the believer are at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event. The faithful saying is that any one who denies Him, not just by word, but by deed of that iniquity, they will be denied as 2 Timothy 2:12 declares BUT 2 Timothy 2:13 declares that even if they do not believe in Him any more, He still abides !!!!
Titus 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2 Timothy 2:18 speaks of how some err from the truth and have their faith overthrown; and surely a lot of believers TODAY become former believers because of the lie of the evolution theory to not believe in His words, but even they are called to go before that throne of grace for help to discern by the KJV so that with His help, they may depart from that exposed iniquity to be that vessel unto honor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP]20[/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
And that testifies that those left behind; the castaways, are the vessels of dishonor in His House that DID NOT DEPART from iniquity, but they are still in His House as 2 Timothy 2:19-21 testify.
So what you have shared is correct, but how you applied it is not. What I have shared is why how you applied it was not applied aptly.
So do not write off those people as not saved or not serious or not a christian, because it is what they have built on that foundation that will be judged for why you are correcting them, leading them into prayer to the One that will deliver them as only He can. That is Who you go to for help, right? So correct them, and lead them in prayer to Him for help.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
By sharing your faith in Him that you rely on Him all the time as your personal Good shepherd, believers living in sin may see their hope in Him too in being their Good Shepherd.
Any work of iniquity that is not repented of by the believer are at risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event. The faithful saying is that any one who denies Him, not just by word, but by deed of that iniquity, they will be denied as 2 Timothy 2:12 declares BUT 2 Timothy 2:13 declares that even if they do not believe in Him any more, He still abides !!!!
Titus 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2 Timothy 2:18 speaks of how some err from the truth and have their faith overthrown; and surely a lot of believers TODAY become former believers because of the lie of the evolution theory to not believe in His words, but even they are called to go before that throne of grace for help to discern by the KJV so that with His help, they may depart from that exposed iniquity to be that vessel unto honor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP]20[/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
And that testifies that those left behind; the castaways, are the vessels of dishonor in His House that DID NOT DEPART from iniquity, but they are still in His House as 2 Timothy 2:19-21 testify.
So what you have shared is correct, but how you applied it is not. What I have shared is why how you applied it was not applied aptly.
So do not write off those people as not saved or not serious or not a christian, because it is what they have built on that foundation that will be judged for why you are correcting them, leading them into prayer to the One that will deliver them as only He can. That is Who you go to for help, right? So correct them, and lead them in prayer to Him for help.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
By sharing your faith in Him that you rely on Him all the time as your personal Good shepherd, believers living in sin may see their hope in Him too in being their Good Shepherd.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Thx for the "lively" discussion (above).
So my research continues...
A friend of mine (who is in ministry) has renounced his involvement with and adherence to NAR leaders. He posted this web article, which I include below for your discernment and comment. I'll be "interviewing him about this very topic tonight...
New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) - Berean Research
Thx for the "lively" discussion (above).
So my research continues...
A friend of mine (who is in ministry) has renounced his involvement with and adherence to NAR leaders. He posted this web article, which I include below for your discernment and comment. I'll be "interviewing him about this very topic tonight...
New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) - Berean Research
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
The last I heard, the man who put that video together believes in signs and wonders. He's also friends with Torben Sondergaard from the Last Reformation, and they are on a video together.
If the preacher is on target do you still reject them? Jesus warned about false prophets showing lying and signs and wonders in the last days, but He didn't say that signs and wonders in the last days were all from false prophets. Peter, quoted Joel about the outpouring of the Spirit which would result in prophesying in the last days, a passage which also mentions signs in the last days.
Jesus warned of false prophets, but he also encouraged people to receive prophets. And He said He would send prophets. In Ephesians 4, we see that He ascended and gave prophets to men. There were prophets in the Jerusalem church in Acts, and apparently there were prophets in the congregation as far away as in Corinth. And there are many other gifts and ministries as well.
The last I heard, the man who put that video together believes in signs and wonders. He's also friends with Torben Sondergaard from the Last Reformation, and they are on a video together.
If the preacher is on target do you still reject them? Jesus warned about false prophets showing lying and signs and wonders in the last days, but He didn't say that signs and wonders in the last days were all from false prophets. Peter, quoted Joel about the outpouring of the Spirit which would result in prophesying in the last days, a passage which also mentions signs in the last days.
Jesus warned of false prophets, but he also encouraged people to receive prophets. And He said He would send prophets. In Ephesians 4, we see that He ascended and gave prophets to men. There were prophets in the Jerusalem church in Acts, and apparently there were prophets in the congregation as far away as in Corinth. And there are many other gifts and ministries as well.
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Hi, i was trying to see where 'Truth' between "pentacostals" and non-pentacostals" is either "fostered" or "grafted"
in with Christians who are taught that speaking in tongues for example is from the Devil. How can such a mutual discussion bring about any kind of agreement other than to condemn one another? "Pentacostals" in my belief are as evil as the day is Light. But, I do speak from being a first hand witness and one-time follower. In early Christianity, people of different languages often met in newly forming churches. The gift of "tongues" was manifest specifically so "all" could hear the sermon in their own languages. There absolutely had to be an "interpreter" if one were speaking with an unknown tongue. That was a requirement by Lord GOD. It is expressly forbidden today as they have ceased. And speaking in tongues is for "unbelievers"
Hi, i was trying to see where 'Truth' between "pentacostals" and non-pentacostals" is either "fostered" or "grafted"
in with Christians who are taught that speaking in tongues for example is from the Devil. How can such a mutual discussion bring about any kind of agreement other than to condemn one another? "Pentacostals" in my belief are as evil as the day is Light. But, I do speak from being a first hand witness and one-time follower. In early Christianity, people of different languages often met in newly forming churches. The gift of "tongues" was manifest specifically so "all" could hear the sermon in their own languages. There absolutely had to be an "interpreter" if one were speaking with an unknown tongue. That was a requirement by Lord GOD. It is expressly forbidden today as they have ceased. And speaking in tongues is for "unbelievers"