Consequences of sinning

Ariel82 · Jun 5, 2017

Romans 8.

26Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, becauseg the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,h for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can bei against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.j 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord

Magenta · Jun 5, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Being born again of the Spirit of God... when do you think that happens? Do we walk after the Spirit of God when He has accomplished His work in us to bring us to belief in Him Whom He sent? I do understand your skepticism, because it does seem sometimes from our limited view that there are people who say they are saved but maybe do not act it, or it looks like their theology is all messed up, so they are lacking in understanding. Is sanctification not an ongoing process? I also agree that not all who say they are Christian, really are. It seems obvious that some are religious but lost. However, only God knows the heart of a person in regard to Him.

KALYNA18 · Jun 5, 2017

s To even think you could get away with doing something in secret, or thinking trying to hide it from the Lord God, is foolish. You can't hide nothing from God. James 4:17 So whoever knows to do good, and what you ought to do and does it not, it is sin. {Sin separates us from God, just as the sin of disobedience separated from God in the Garden of Eden. God had to put them out. It is a worse thing, to be separated from God, confessing, repentance, leads unto salvation. No there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, to those, who are in him, not away, and in sin.

KALYNA18 · Jun 5, 2017

Magenta said:

amen it's sad that one time in a bible class, the teacher asked what's the difference between religion, and relationship with Jesus. Some one said, WHAT? they were active church goers, but that was it. Religion does put the dark blinders on ;you, and it will sweep you into the dark current. There's a song, only the strong survive, it is true. WE need to get stronger, and grow spiritual roots, in the Lord, and when people spew poison, in the ears, for years, you could take the word, Luke 1-:19 and use that weapon against it as a healing. Being born again, is vital, and spiritual growth any reason it says, when we became new in Christ, we were feeders on milk only, and not on meat. babes never growing in the word. Ty for the good words.

KALYNA18 · Jun 5, 2017

Ariel82 said:

amen, and in the latter days, there shall be a great falling away. bv. Lover's of the things of the worldly pleasures, more than loving the Lord. Haters' of those who do good, YOu can not love two masters, either you will hate one, and love the other, bv, Revelation, God will spit you out of his mouth, for being neither hot , or cold, but lukewarm. Just a play game of being called a christian, and really are not. A dangerous game, to do Don't play with God's authority, and his souerency. What he says, will be, his words do not return back to him void. Meaning, they will accomplish what he says. Believe it.

followjesus · Jun 5, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I'm becoming convinced lately that you intentionally avoid what's being said in scripture in order to omit it. Like above your saying Jesus set us free by what he did for us, yet what Jesus is saying in John 8:31-36 is that if you really keep my words, then you will know the truth and the truth will make you free. They ask "free of what, we're not slaves" Jesus replies with the anyone who sins is a slave to it verse ....it often appears intentionally done I notice always you do that, like you are only interested in the verses that support what you are saying, so you have to omit the thugs being said about obeying the gospel.

Like the verse u are referring to in John 14 about Jesus said he'd be with us forever he's not a liar, yet you are pulling one verse when all he is saying there makes the true context and is the same as John 8 in the verses all around him saying he'll be with us forever, you avoid completely " If anyone loves me, he will obey my commands, and I will pray the father, and he will give you another comforter to be with you forever the spirit of truth....

While at the same time, the other folks who point to the context, you then begin explaining things contrary and why we need the gog lenses that only sees the verses that make the context void, It's a dangerous path my friend. One should feel secure in the things Jesus said, there really is no need to only accept a handful of them, because that drastically changes the truth, and seems to be a blindfold to so many

BillG · Jun 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

My understanding of the following verses

Hebrews 10:26-29
The Just Live by Faith
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Is that it is a wilfull rejection of Jesus.

sin willfully: The reference here is not to an occasional act of sin, but to a conscious rejection of God. The OT speaks in Num. 15:30, 31 of committing willful sin. A person who sinned presumptuously was to be cut off from the people. To sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth is apostasy. If a Christian rejects God’s provision for his or her salvation, there is no other remedy for sins (see also Num. 15:29–31), since forgiveness of sins can only be found in Christ’s perfect sacrifice.
10:27 With no hope of forgiveness (v. 26), all that one can expect is judgment, described here as a fiery indignation. Those who choose to disobey God become His adversaries. (NKJV bible study notes)

deliberately: Open rebellion against God’s laws was described as “sinning with a high hand” (see note on Num 15:30-31). Here the author has in mind specifically a rejection of Christ and his work. Christ’s sacrifice for sins has done away with the sacrificial system of the old covenant (9:11–10:18). If a person rejects the Son’s sacrifice, there is no other sacrifice—nowhere else to go—for forgiveness. A person who rejects Christ can only expect judgment as one of God’s enemies (cp. Isa 26:10-11).
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Willful sinning” in this passage carries the idea of consciously and deliberately rejecting Christ.

To know God’s way, to hear it preached, to study it, to count oneself among the faithful, and then to turn away is to become apostate.

Sinning willfully carries with it the idea of sinning continually and deliberately. Such a person does not sin because of ignorance, nor is he carried away by momentary temptations he is too weak to resist.

The willful sinner sins because of an established way of thinking and acting which he has no desire to give up. The true believer, on the other hand, is one who lapses into sin and loses temporary fellowship with God. But he will eventually come back to God in repentance because his heavenly Father will continually woo and convict him until he can’t stay away any longer.

The true apostate will continue to sin, deliberately, willingly and with abandon. John tells us that “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God”

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So I would say that in Hebrews is the total rejection of Jesus and his saving grace through him and not through the law. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy, therefore anyone who rejects Jesus is under the same judgement. They reject the grace offered by God through the once for all sacrifice of Jesus.

I think with regard to 1 John 3:9 it does not mean rejection of Christ as such, I think he is saying habitual sin is not consistent with the Christian walk but he who is born of God does not sin in this way because God's seed is in him.

So I think if soemwone falls foul of this then it's because they have rejected Christ and have no concern of or for Christ.

I think a believer will struggle with sin, also some sin that they find difficult to overcome but they hate it with a passion, maybe can't understand why they are doing it, but will come before God, be like Jacob as such.

I think all we need to be careful not to judge too quickly of a professing beliver who is walking in a way that we know is not right.
We need to come alongside and talk and walk, find out what's going on behind the scenes.
Maybe they need healing or faulty foundations replaced.

I think one of the problems today in the modern church is that we talk about praying the sinners prayer and leave it at that.
Jesus made it quite clear their is a cost when we come to him, but the benefits far outweigh the costs.

New beleivers need discipleship, a firm grounding in the faith, foundations laid on Jesus.

I do actually say to new beleivers what Paul says in Romans 6, Gods grace is not an excuse to sin, but if you do sin then his grace forgives you. You now have the Holy Spirit in you, to help you, to conform you to the image of Jesus.

Just my simple thoughts.

Sorry about the long post.

CherieR · Jun 5, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I was reading an old journal this morning and came across this writing. I can't remember where it came from or if it's a compilation of some things from others as well as myself but I though it might be good to ponder.

3 Ways sinning affects the life of the Christian

1) Christian bondage

Whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. The more our minds are submitted to sinning in all it's forms - the more in bondage we become.

In reality we are free in Christ - in our new creation - the inner man of the new heart; however, the one who lives in sinning has lost sight of their freedom and sin will rule their life. Sinning bluffs us into submission by it's deceitfulness but it has no power other than what we give it. Rom. 6:12-14.

2) Religious Bondage

Legalistic religion masquerades as "godliness". Legalism doesn't trust God, so it implements rules. Many under legalism declare that Christ is sufficient with their lips, but if people really believed this they wouldn't turn to human effort instead of receiving what Christ has already done by faith.

At the heart of legalism is a distrust of God despite what the lips may be saying.

Legalism is just as much a source of bondage as out-right sinning is. Yes, legalism is sinning because it is not by faith.

Many who live by legalism deny that they are legalists. Perhaps we should clarify what legalism is. Legalism is to attempt to make yourself right, do good works, or keep yourself in God's will by human effort. It is to focus on any law other than the law of faith and of love.

When the Christian struggles with sinning, the message of the gospel is "Trust in Christ, for this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith." Our responsibility as teachers and brethren is to help one another find comfort in the love and grace of God and remind each other that even after failures, we have victory in Christ.

Cont....

I don't know about legalism being an actually sin, but I think it shows a lack of understanding. It get a person jumbing through hoops trying to to good work when they need to rest or trying to please God by good things they do when God is already pleased with his children. Great post by the way!

CherieR · Jun 5, 2017

followjesus said:

Jesus did say if you love me you will keep my commands. I don't think, however, that we need to strive to keep his commands. It comes naturally as we love Jesus more and more and abide in him. Abiding in Jesus, I believe, involves resting. How can we rest if we are striving to do good? How can we love Jesus to the fullness when we believe we have to strive to do good works in order to please him? We already please God because we are in Christ and Jesus' righteousness is imputed to us as his children.

Meggido · Jun 5, 2017

Stephen63 said:

KJV versions are the only one that adds this last part: who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ariel82 · Jun 5, 2017

Meggido said:

Jubilee Bible 2000
So that now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit

Webster's Bible Translation
There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

World English Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don't walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Young's Literal Translation
There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;

Meggido · Jun 5, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,

International Standard Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in union with the Messiah Jesus.

NET Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

New Heart English Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
There is therefore no condemnation to those in Yeshua The Messiah who do not walk in the flesh.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So those who are believers in Christ Jesus can no longer be condemned.

New American Standard 1977
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Jubilee Bible 2000
So that now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

King James 2000 Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

American King James Version
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

American Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
THERE is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh.

Darby Bible Translation
[There is] then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

English Revised Version
There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Weymouth New Testament
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus;

World English Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don't walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Young's Literal Translation
There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Commentary

Ariel82 · Jun 5, 2017

You shouldn't say "only" just that the majority of other translations don't include it in verse one.

However the whole chapter shows that it doesn't change the meaning of the message presented if it is included.

Which Bible Version Is Best?

Omitted Verses
It is often pointed out that modern translations omit a few of the verses found in the KJV, and this is sometimes believed to be an attempt to distort the Bible's teachings. However, the real reason is that certain verses are not found in the oldest and best Bible manuscripts. Thus, they are omitted to accurately preserve the original Bible text. (The chapter and verse numbers were added to the Bible in the Middle Ages; they were not part of the original Bible manuscripts. Thus, an omitted verse does not mean that something was omitted from the original writings.)
Some of these extra verses were added to certain manuscript copies as margin notes or as prayers for use in public worship. Those manuscripts were then copied and recopied without making it clear that the extra verses were later additions. The most famous example is the doxology, "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen." that the KJV adds to the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:13. That phrase is not found in any of the oldest manuscripts of Matthew.

stonesoffire · Jun 5, 2017

The meaning of to walk after is long for...desire. Our hearts desire for the Spirit of God has no condemnation.

Meggido · Jun 5, 2017

Ariel82 said:

the best bible version is the one people will continue to read.

My point is that certain verses are used to promote a works based/conditions based salvation and Romans 8.1 is one of them.

Chris1975 · Jun 5, 2017

Ariel82 said:

I would assume then going back to the Greek here should then settle it.

KJV W/ STRONGS BIBLE - ROMANS 8
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8:1 [There is] therefore 686 now 3568 no 3762 condemnation 2631 to them which are in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424, who walk 4043 5723 not 3361 after 2596 the flesh 4561, but 235 after 2596 the Spirit 4151.

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stonesoffire · Jun 5, 2017

Megiddo

Wasn't that phrase a notation of the side of a translators page and then added?

stonesoffire · Jun 5, 2017

I don't think you went back to the greek there Chris.

Chris1975 · Jun 5, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Click on the hyperlinks (the 3 and 4 digit numbers)

Ariel82 · Jun 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Not really. It seems you are being nitpicky.

So I wanted to show that if you want to be precise, you shouldn't use the word "only"

Romans 8
5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

*****

Those verses shows that the notations on the manuscript used to translate the KJV is not in error but just reiterates what is later said in the same chapter.

If folks want to make it into a works based salvation motif,they would be wrong. However one must chose whom they shall serve: the flesh or the Spirit,

Consequences of sinning

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