CONTENTIOUS CALVINISM: Misrepresenting The Doctrines Of Grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

SpurgeonFan

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2017
6
0
1
#1
Calvanism should not be contentious. As one who holds to the "Doctrines of Grace", I know there can be many theological differences with our brothers of a more Arminian persuasion. However, that should never be the cause of anger, bitterness, or strife...especially if we claim to believe salvation (and the theological sanctification) of every believer is entirely in the sovereign hand of a faithful God working by His Spirit. We are not the Holy Spirit! Can we debate Sure. Can we disagree? Yes, but we must do so while seeking to keep the bonds of unity where they may be found with those who may not hold positions exactly as we do. A true "Calvanist" knows that their life's goal is never to make more Calvanists, rather it is to lift up the immeasurable qualities of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by the Gospel to all around us. God will work out everything else!
 

SpurgeonFan

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2017
6
0
1
#2
That being said I am interested in discussing what the Bible has to say about how to handle/discuss theological or doctrinal differences from a Biblical perspective. Scripture quotes on the subject would be fantastic.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
9,283
384
83
#3
I do not think you are a Calvinist. You cant even type the word properly... New nick, one post...

On the other hand, I agree with you.
 

SpurgeonFan

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2017
6
0
1
#4
Hahaha. I guess that's what I get :). I caught it but it was too late to change. New word of the day.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#5
I do not think you are a Calvinist. You cant even type the word properly... New nick, one post...

On the other hand, I agree with you.
He posts eerily like Samuel23...
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
2,975
247
63
#6
Calvanism should not be contentious. As one who holds to the "Doctrines of Grace", I know there can be many theological differences with our brothers of a more Arminian persuasion. However, that should never be the cause of anger, bitterness, or strife...especially if we claim to believe salvation (and the theological sanctification) of every believer is entirely in the sovereign hand of a faithful God working by His Spirit. We are not the Holy Spirit! Can we debate Sure. Can we disagree? Yes, but we must do so while seeking to keep the bonds of unity where they may be found with those who may not hold positions exactly as we do. A true "Calvanist" knows that their life's goal is never to make more Calvanists, rather it is to lift up the immeasurable qualities of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by the Gospel to all around us. God will work out everything else!
The most toxic debates i have seen within Christian forums have been about calvinism.. It really brings out the worst in people.. I try to avoid discussing it.. But the adherents of it make a habit of trying to introduce it into every thread they can.. Toxic stuff.. I would rather debate catholics, muslims, wiccans then calvinists..
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,890
628
113
#7
Calvinism and the reformation are going to create tension as their birth sources from the separation of bible believing people parting ways from the Roman Catholic church.

This whole argument was set in the differing understanding of salvation by grace wholly apart from works which the reformation lays claim to and the Arminian ideology of grace to salvation coming from sacraments or works of atonement by men.

Both sides have pushed their arguments way past the bounds of biblical reason. Some great men of God were forced to take more extreme positions on the subject to remain able to preach and see souls saved. We see that continuing today as proponents of Calvinism and Arminianism still overstate their positions according to the bible.

In essence we ought to preach the gospel and let God minister in the hearts of men that we will see souls saved and added to the kingdom of God. If they were elect or not is not our concern. Our responsibility is to witness to the lost and dying world that we have received so great salvation in Christ.

A saved Calvinist and a saved Arminian are still saved and sealed unto eternal life by the same blood of Christ and by the same Holy Spirit.

The sinner under Holy Spirit conviction over his sin is not concerned as to whether he is a Calvinist or an Arminian only that Jesus will save him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
190
63
#8
I agree you can be saved in spite of error but not because of it.

Having said that, I have a problem with most systematic theologies because so many eventually come to beliefs that are detrimental to the walk of the Christian.

Like a person must strive to keep their salvation, or some are a special elect that God has chosen, or that Jesus died only for the sins of the elect, or that Jesus only died for a person's present sins not future sins which are all so unbiblical.

The "perseverance of the saints" ...I have read this explained in so many different ways.
Then I realized I do not need to know what Piper, MacArthur, Spurgeon, Calvin and J. C. Ryle teach and that they were actually adding more confusion.

Scripture became more clear without them.

So I do think it is important to discuss to some degree the different views because false beliefs can rob a person of their own personal joy and fellowship with God. I know it did for me.



Calvinism and the reformation are going to create tension as their birth sources from the separation of bible believing people parting ways from the Roman Catholic church.

This whole argument was set in the differing understanding of salvation by grace wholly apart from works which the reformation lays claim to and the Arminian ideology of grace to salvation coming from sacraments or works of atonement by men.

Both sides have pushed their arguments way past the bounds of biblical reason. Some great men of God were forced to take more extreme positions on the subject to remain able to preach and see souls saved. We see that continuing today as proponents of Calvinism and Arminianism still overstate their positions according to the bible.

In essence we ought to preach the gospel and let God minister in the hearts of men that we will see souls saved and added to the kingdom of God. If they were elect or not is not our concern. Our responsibility is to witness to the lost and dying world that we have received so great salvation in Christ.

A saved Calvinist and a saved Arminian are still saved and sealed unto eternal life by the same blood of Christ and by the same Holy Spirit.

The sinner under Holy Spirit conviction over his sin is not concerned as to whether he is a Calvinist or an Arminian only that Jesus will save him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
59
48
#9
Welcome to CC, not a good idea to rebuke in your first post.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,890
628
113
#10
I agree you can be saved in spite of error but not because of it.

Having said that, I have a problem with most systematic theologies because so many eventually come to beliefs that are detrimental to the walk of the Christian.

Like a person must strive to keep their salvation, or some are a special elect that God has chosen, or that Jesus died only for the sins of the elect, or that Jesus only died for a person's present sins not future sins which are all so unbiblical.

The "perseverance of the saints" ...I have read this explained in so many different ways.
Then I realized I do not need to know what Piper, MacArthur, Spurgeon, Calvin and J. C. Ryle teach and that they were actually adding more confusion.

Scripture became more clear without them.

So I do think it is important to discuss to some degree the different views because false beliefs can rob a person of their own personal joy and fellowship with God. I know it did for me.
I'm not saying don't discuss but don't war to the point of severing fellowship with each other and the Lord.

Only a small number of core doctrines should merit separation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
190
63
#11
I understand now and agree completely!!;)


I'm not saying don't discuss but don't war to the point of severing fellowship with each other and the Lord.

Only a small number of core doctrines should merit separation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

SpurgeonFan

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2017
6
0
1
#12
Rebuke? I suppose it could be seen that way. More intended as an encouragement to common unity. Been on CC a long time reading everything, but rarely commenting. I created a new account since my old email account was compromised.

I posted a question following my original post in hopes of spurring on a Biblical discussion, but I think it kind of got lost in the shuffle. Here is what I posted...

"I am interested in discussing what the Bible has to say about how to handle/discuss theological or doctrinal differences from a Biblical perspective. Scripture quotes on the subject would be fantastic."
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#13
So who were you before your email was compromised?
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#15
Cool. Don't think we ever spoken.welcome to BDF. It can get messy in here. hope you have your spiritual armor on.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#16
That being said I am interested in discussing what the Bible has to say about how to handle/discuss theological or doctrinal differences from a Biblical perspective. Scripture quotes on the subject would be fantastic.
Galatians 2 v. 11 Paul rebuked Peter

I always like the passages in James 3 about heavenly wisdom.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#17
The Bible tells us some issues it doesn't matter, such as if a woman has long or short hair..

1 Corinthians 11
13Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, 15but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,803
186
63
#18
Hi Spurgeonfan,

Welcome back to CC. Sorry to hear about your email.

1 Corinthians 13 would be a good place to begin. We need to pray and make sure our heart is right. Too many argue for arguments sake or to show how much
knowledge they have and use only their brain and not their heart too.

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails .....

Welcome-Back.jpg Welcome-Back.jpg
 

SpurgeonFan

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2017
6
0
1
#19
Cool. Don't think we ever spoken.welcome to BDF. It can get messy in here. hope you have your spiritual armor on.
It took me a long time, but I have learned the spiritual disciple or agreeing to disagree, walking away, or saying I'm sorry LOL
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
12,205
337
83
#20
I do not think you are a Calvinist. You cant even type the word properly... New nick, one post...

On the other hand, I agree with you.


Things that make you go "hummm".