Continuationism vs cessastionism?
- Thread starter Muskokaman
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1
I think strangelove was doing a little misdirection with his tongues are still for today, but not for today dance. His attempts to distinguish between learned tongues and miraculous tongues did nothing more than delay the pending answer we seek. Where does it say miraculous tongues, as he so distinctifes it, where in the Bible does it say they have ceased?
1
Also from 1 corinthians 12 and 14, it seems pretty clear that it's talking about more than someone's ability to learn a language.
1 cor 12
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
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1 Cor 14
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
If this is speaking of simple ability to learn languages, then it would imply that anytime simply talks in another language they're speaking by the spirit.
Only the Spirit can give someone the ability to utter mysteries.
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
Now if this was talking about the simple ability to learn a language then speak it, there would be no need to ask God to know what you're saying, because if you learned it naturally, then you'd have a clue what you're saying! The fact you have to ask for an interpretation shows that it is indeed something MORE.
1 cor 12
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
-----
1 Cor 14
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
If this is speaking of simple ability to learn languages, then it would imply that anytime simply talks in another language they're speaking by the spirit.
Only the Spirit can give someone the ability to utter mysteries.
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
Now if this was talking about the simple ability to learn a language then speak it, there would be no need to ask God to know what you're saying, because if you learned it naturally, then you'd have a clue what you're saying! The fact you have to ask for an interpretation shows that it is indeed something MORE.
L
If the gifts have ceased then it includes all this list:-
1 Corinthians 12:28
(28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
But because they have not ceased we just need to ask the question "How do we know if someone who has a gift is from God?" The same can be said for miracles "How do we know if a miracle is from God?"
1 Corinthians 12:28
(28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
But because they have not ceased we just need to ask the question "How do we know if someone who has a gift is from God?" The same can be said for miracles "How do we know if a miracle is from God?"
U
Hope ya don't mind a lil' cut n' paste.
4) So, the purpose of tongues was to be a sign to unbelieving Jews. One sign was to show that salvation was for the Gentiles also (hence the foreign languages). Clearly, the sign is no longer needed.
The first church in Jerusalem was entirely Jewish and they badly needed convincing that Gentiles were part of God's salvation plan as they were fiercely, often violently, opposed to it. One example in Acts 11 shows this opposition and how tongues was used as a sign to verify that the Gentiles were in God's plan. Today, we have the Bible to explain the mystery of the church (Eph 3:1-6). Tongues, prophecy and knowledge are grouped because they had a limited purpose and when that purpose was served they were removed.
What was the purpose of tongues?
1) 1 Cor 14:22 says, “Tongues then ... are a sign for unbelievers”. The word “then” (“Wherefore” inthe KJV) means that this verse is referring back to the previous verse(s).
2) 1 Cor 14:21 says that God will speak to “this people”. The New Testament term “this people”
always refers to Jews and the unbelievers being referred to in 1 Cor 14:22 (from Isa 28) were Jews.
3) In Acts, whenever tongues was used Jews were present.
4) So, the purpose of tongues was to be a sign to unbelieving Jews. One sign was to show that salvation was for the Gentiles also (hence the foreign languages). Clearly, the sign is no longer needed.
5) Tongues was also a sign of judgment against the Jews. The quote in 1 Cor 14:21-22 comes from Isaiah 28:11-13 where judgment is pronounced against Israel. Their Temple was destroyed in 70AD.
Tongues is nowhere said to be a sign of a Christian being saved through receiving the Holy Spirit, nor is it said to be either a Prayer Language, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or Tongues of Angels. These things can only be read into the text. The Bible only says that tongues was a sign to unbelieving Jews, nothing more.The first church in Jerusalem was entirely Jewish and they badly needed convincing that Gentiles were part of God's salvation plan as they were fiercely, often violently, opposed to it. One example in Acts 11 shows this opposition and how tongues was used as a sign to verify that the Gentiles were in God's plan. Today, we have the Bible to explain the mystery of the church (Eph 3:1-6). Tongues, prophecy and knowledge are grouped because they had a limited purpose and when that purpose was served they were removed.
U
Hello 1still. Here's a little more food for thought on the subject ...... very short and brief. Seems the shorter posts tend to get read a bit more. More C n' P for the most part but it explains it rather nicely 
If the three items of 1 Cor 13:8 were not going to cease before we see Jesus, why does the Bible even mention "ceasing" ? If they were meant to be around until the end, like healing etc, why would God even bring up the matter of ceasing ? In vs.9-10, only prophecy and knowledge are spoken of in reference to perfection. Why? Because they are the very two gifts used since Genesis for the inspired writing of Scripture. With the completed Bible, these 'in part' gifts were withdrawn. Why ? It is so no one can add to the already perfect Word. There are six items mentioned in the passage 1 Cor 13:8-13. Of these six, three are said to remain and three are said to cease. Clearly, if words mean anything, three cease at some point in time while the other three remain beyond that point, until we see Jesus ... when faith and hope will also cease. Love ........ it'll always remain
If the three items of 1 Cor 13:8 were not going to cease before we see Jesus, why does the Bible even mention "ceasing" ? If they were meant to be around until the end, like healing etc, why would God even bring up the matter of ceasing ? In vs.9-10, only prophecy and knowledge are spoken of in reference to perfection. Why? Because they are the very two gifts used since Genesis for the inspired writing of Scripture. With the completed Bible, these 'in part' gifts were withdrawn. Why ? It is so no one can add to the already perfect Word. There are six items mentioned in the passage 1 Cor 13:8-13. Of these six, three are said to remain and three are said to cease. Clearly, if words mean anything, three cease at some point in time while the other three remain beyond that point, until we see Jesus ... when faith and hope will also cease. Love ........ it'll always remain Well I can't go against what I feel in my heart and I have never seen a movie in my life that moved me as much as a few testimonials I saw plus some strange things I have both witnessed and heard of from very credible people I know personally. I am of the mindset as the Lord himself stated" if your faith be great enough you shall say to that mountain move and it will flee from before you" Having faith is the biggest part of the equation and without it it would be a difficult road indeed!
Tell us what it is then Stilly.
Coz now I'm completely baffled by your position.
I dont see anywhere in your verses anyone has to ask God anything about what someones saying. It says pray that THEY may interpret. In other words, pray for the gift of interpretation of foreign languages.
All I see is rebuking the Corinthian church for talking foreign languages without interpretation.
Coz now I'm completely baffled by your position.
I dont see anywhere in your verses anyone has to ask God anything about what someones saying. It says pray that THEY may interpret. In other words, pray for the gift of interpretation of foreign languages.
All I see is rebuking the Corinthian church for talking foreign languages without interpretation.