Continuationism vs cessastionism?

[Muskokaman]

he's gone to bed.
cessationism is biblical
continuationism is not.

end of story.
a 5 year old can understand this.

So now I'm less than 5 in my spiritual maturity ok whatever floats your boat Kathy.

Perhaps all that reading of other mens opinions on the topic has hardened your heart?

Even I less than a 5 year old can undertand the words that Jesus spoke!

Perhaps Your view comes from systemic theology rather than inspired reading!

It ain't what you learned it's how you learned it!

To say that the gifts are not present and functioning is the same MISTAKE the church fathers made because of their own lack of faith in God and their preeminent worry of sustaining the Church body which they thought was more important than actual faith in God himself.

Did Jesus not say in God all things are possible?

 

[zone]

So now I'm less than 5 in my spiritual maturity ok whatever floats your boat Kathy.

Perhaps all that reading of other mens opinions on the topic has hardened your heart?

Even I less than a 5 year old can undertand the words that Jesus spoke!

Perhaps Your view comes from systemic theology rather than inspired reading!

It ain't what you learned it's how you learned it!

To say that the gifts are not present and functioning is the same MISTAKE the church fathers made because of their own lack of faith in God and their preeminent worry of sustaining the Church body which they thought was more important than actual faith in God himself.

Did Jesus not say in God all things are possible?

so the church has been an abject failure for 1800+ years?
only now coming into her full potential?

why?

because Joel wasn't really about Pentecost?

 

[Muskokaman]

so the church has been an abject failure for 1800+ years?
only now coming into her full potential?

why?

because Joel wasn't really about Pentecost?

Not entirely or we wouldn't be discussing theology right now eh?

how many examples of Church failure do you want or should I say mens failures because the church of Christ is very much alive.

But lets not get into denominational fracture or we will be chewing the fat for eternity.

You tell me the importance of Joel an OT prophet who was neither there at pentecost and whos words have been misinterpreted

 

[AnandaHya]

Not entirely or we wouldn't be discussing theology right now eh?

how many examples of Church failure do you want or should I say mens failures because the church of Christ is very much alive.

But lets not get into denominational fracture or we will be chewing the fat for eternity.

You tell me the importance of Joel an OT prophet who was neither there at pentecost and whos words have been misinterpreted

seriously? Peter inteperted Joel's prophecy at pentecost. I believe in the continuation of gifts but not of prophets and apostles and the fake signs and wonders crowd that popped up and go around tearing down what God built with HIS church as a witness to HIS truth.

next thing you will have book burnings and censorship where the only "Bible" available is the one which have heretical views injected as if they are original text.

It is amazing what ONE word add are removed does to the meaning of a sentence....

Genesis 3
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect

I also think everyone should tame their tongue and speak as oracles of God but that is another matter that most don't really understand or do either.

Hebrews 5:12
[ Spiritual Immaturity ] For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

 

[Muskokaman]

seriously? Peter inteperted Joel's prophecy at pentecost. I believe in the continuation of gifts but not of prophets and apostles and the fake signs and wonders crowd that popped up and go around tearing down what God built with HIS church as a witness to HIS truth.

next thing you will have book burnings and censorship where the only "Bible" available is the one which have heretical views injected as if they are original text.

It is amazing what ONE word add are removed does to the meaning of a sentence....

Genesis 3
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect

I also think everyone should tame their tongue and speak as oracles of God but that is another matter that most don't really understand or do either.

Hebrews 5:12
[ Spiritual Immaturity ] For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Blindsided what?
The question was Joel not Peters interp. all who who believe in Christ and teach his message are apostles but there were only 12 disciples BIG differenmce!
Terminology and proper understanding of terms definitively goes a long way to getting rid of injustice!

 

[AnandaHya]

Blindsided what?
The question was Joel not Peters interp. all who who believe in Christ and teach his message are apostles but there were only 12 disciples BIG differenmce!
Terminology and proper understanding of terms definitively goes a long way to getting rid of injustice!

?? what?

have you got the terms mixed up? there were 120 disciples in the room at Pentecost and 12 Apostles, add Paul and barnabas (spelling) and you got 14 Apostles....

what terms are we defining? gotta to read bedtime stories but the last two pages of post are concerning let me go back to the beginning and reread your words again. I hope you don't believe what your last few post imply you believe....

 

[Muskokaman]

Define Apostle?

Yes you are correct 120 at pentecost not doubting that for a second.

I suppose we should include Judas (although I don't really) and I always forget about barnabas my bad oops! sorry!

but we are way off topic and if I didn't think better I would say that was intentional ZONE

 

[AnandaHya]

No I would not given the choice and no your last line once again is ill founded in the belief that My children and wife need never be sick again because of my own personal faith in God

Job had abundant faith in God! Did that stop Satan from torturing him with plagues pestilence and the loss of his entire family? NO

Next?

you mean its all about YOUR FAITH and not God's mercy?

why are kids born with genetic disorders?

I was working at an EC or kids with special needs class yesterday and will be again tomorrow so it really is deep on my mind and weighs no my heart.

why don't these people who claim to having these miraclous powers of healing not travel the world and heal people with these medical problems? why do they blame the child or their families "lack of faith" at their failure to heal these individuals?

What power does prayer really have? why do people teach false promises and hopes to people already under so much strain to just make it day by day?

why is not faith in Christ and His work on the cross enough? why is not the unmerited gift of salvation more then enough? why are people so ungrateful that they seek always more to fulfill their pleasures and lusts? when do people stop seeking after their wants of power, prestige, importance, material comforts,etc and start praying and doing God's will?

at the end of the day, the only answer I get is

Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God

and a peace that passes understanding settles around my heart. there are a lot of things I do not know and i skimmed this thread but at the end of the day.

the only question that really matters is: Did you do God's will and glorify His name today?

then whatever answer you find in your heart you take it to God in prayer and lay it in His hands as an offering and ask God to help you do better tomorrow and spend time telling God your worries and fears and doubts and give them to Him as well as sharing the things you are thankful for, your happy moments and smiles and laughter. then listen to His response, read His love letter (the Holy Bible) rest and seek Him again in the morning and through faith that He will keep and guide you, you walk and work while there is light until He calls you back home.

alright I'm done ranting for the night. I'll see you guys and gals later. May God bless and keep you.

 

[AnandaHya]

Define Apostle?

Yes you are correct 120 at pentecost not doubting that for a second.

I suppose we should include Judas (although I don't really) and I always forget about barnabas my bad oops! sorry!

but we are way off topic and if I didn't think better I would say that was intentional ZONE

there are 120 DISCIPLES NOT Apostles....its page 20 on the thread being off topic is expected. not completely off topic if you figure out what apostles are and what is being referred to as the Apostolic age you might not be so prickly with cessationist.

Jesus had a lot of disciples but chose only 12 to build the foundation with. the rest are stones resting on the foundation but not part of the foundation itself.

Luke 6:13
And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:

Ephesians 2:19-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Muskokaman]

So far as children with disorders are concerned how many of their parents were drug users or drank during pregnancy etc. etc. point is tis:

The sins of the father shall fall on the head of the son

My oldest son is a prime example of this as he was diagnosed autistic at age 4 and not to go into depth but His deficiency is of my own doing and no one elses. I do not blame God but myself for his predicament.

So I think I am VERY qualified to speak about this!

Yes I did do Gods will today but I am sure I could have done more and I am also sure that I sinned today (noticed a really nice backside) I am a man with all the faults I do not profess Earthly perfection because I do not believe in it!

 

[AnandaHya]

So far as children with disorders are concerned how many of their parents were drug users or drank during pregnancy etc. etc. point is tis:

The sins of the father shall fall on the head of the son

My oldest son is a prime example of this as he was diagnosed autistic at age 4 and not to go into depth but His deficiency is of my own doing and no one elses. I do not blame God but myself for his predicament.

So I think I am VERY qualified to speak about this!

Yes I did do Gods will today but I am sure I could have done more and I am also sure that I sinned today (noticed a really nice backside) I am a man with all the faults I do not profess Earthly perfection because I do not believe in it!

what unneeded guilt to carry around.

I"m sorry but I have to disagree based on these scriptures:

Ezekiel 18

A False Proverb Refuted

1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:


‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 “ Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

Jeremiah 31
27 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that as I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to throw down, to destroy, and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD. 29 In those days they shall say no more:


‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

A New Covenant


31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

we are under the NEW covenant, Jesus shows us that Generational curses no longer apply.

John 9

1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I[a] must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

It is still TODAY for we still have LIGHT until Satan is released and there is again darkness for he will gather the multitudes for battle. Like the world before Jesus came with its animal and human sacrifices and demons were free to walk the Earth and be worshiped as "gods" (think they are going with title Manifest sons of God right now, but some like the title apostle or prophet and are applying for the ten crowns position with the number of followers they can beguile and get to worship them instead of God and learning HIS word and His will they seek their "leader's" robot instructions )

Hebrews 4:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:


“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”[a]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.


do you know what TODAY really means?

 

[damombomb]

So far as children with disorders are concerned how many of their parents were drug users or drank during pregnancy etc. etc. point is tis:

The sins of the father shall fall on the head of the son

My oldest son is a prime example of this as he was diagnosed autistic at age 4 and not to go into depth but His deficiency is of my own doing and no one elses. I do not blame God but myself for his predicament.

So I think I am VERY qualified to speak about this!

Yes I did do Gods will today but I am sure I could have done more and I am also sure that I sinned today (noticed a really nice backside) I am a man with all the faults I do not profess Earthly perfection because I do not believe in it!

May God turn this situation around for his glory,in Jesus name amen
Not to go of subject, but my youngest son has dislexia, I have always stood on the word of God for him,
He is now going to college for criminal justice,not to mention he has the gift of wisdom

 

[unclefester]

So far as children with disorders are concerned how many of their parents were drug users or drank during pregnancy etc. etc. point is tis:

The sins of the father shall fall on the head of the son

My oldest son is a prime example of this as he was diagnosed autistic at age 4 and not to go into depth but His deficiency is of my own doing and no one elses. I do not blame God but myself for his predicament.

So I think I am VERY qualified to speak about this!

Yes I did do Gods will today but I am sure I could have done more and I am also sure that I sinned today (noticed a really nice backside) I am a man with all the faults I do not profess Earthly perfection because I do not believe in it!

I'm with Ananda on this one as well Muskokaman. Your sons deficiency is not a punishment from God for any sins you yourself may have committed. I pray that your heart and mind are released from whatever guilt you have associated yourself with in regards to this matter. Here's an interesting C n' P from "got questions.org" that I dearly hope will help you. God bless your precious son my friend ..... and you and your family also.

Question: "Are children punished for the sins of their parents?"

Answer: Children are not punished for the sins committed by their parents; neither are parents punished for the sins of their children. Each of us is responsible for our own sins. Ezekiel 18:20 tells us, “The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.” This verse clearly shows that punishment for one’s sins is borne by that person.

There is a verse that has led some to believe the Bible teaches intergenerational punishment for sin, but this interpretation is incorrect. The verse in question is Exodus 20:5, which says in reference to idols, “You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” This verse is speaking not so much of punishment, but of consequences. It is saying that the consequences of a man’s sins can be felt generations later. God was telling the Israelites that their children would feel the impact of their parents’ generation as a natural consequence of their disobedience and hatred of God. Children raised in such an environment would practice similar idolatry, thus falling into the established pattern of disobedience. The effect of a disobedient generation was to plant wickedness so deeply that it took several generations to reverse. God does not hold us accountable for the sins of our parents, but we sometimes suffer as a result of the sins our parents committed, as Exodus 20:5 illustrates.

As Ezekiel 18:20 shows, each of us is responsible for his own sins and we must bear the punishment for them. We cannot share our guilt with another, nor can another be held responsible for it. There is, however, one exception to this rule, and it applies to all mankind. One man bore the sins of others and paid the penalty for them so sinners could become completely righteous and pure in the sight of God. That man is Jesus Christ. God sent Jesus into the world to exchange His perfection for our sin. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus Christ takes away the punishment for sin for those who come to Him in faith.

 

[Muskokaman]

what unneeded guilt to carry around.

I"m sorry but I have to disagree based on these scriptures:

Ezekiel 18

A False Proverb Refuted

1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:


‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 “ Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

Jeremiah 31
27 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that as I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to throw down, to destroy, and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD. 29 In those days they shall say no more:


‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

A New Covenant


31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

we are under the NEW covenant, Jesus shows us that Generational curses no longer apply.

John 9

1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I[a] must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

It is still TODAY for we still have LIGHT until Satan is released and there is again darkness for he will gather the multitudes for battle. Like the world before Jesus came with its animal and human sacrifices and demons were free to walk the Earth and be worshiped as "gods" (think they are going with title Manifest sons of God right now)

Hebrews 4:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:


“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”[a]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.


do you know what TODAY really means?

That aint happening until you dead as in the spirit alone when we are in the flesh we cannot achieve spiritual unity with God we may have an overflowing abundance of spirit for a while but that does not nullify our sin it merely sweeps it aside to make use of the vessel that is our body sin can still reenter at a later date. Many Christians decieve them selves by thinking they are saved because they feel freed of their sin yet go out and commit more sin and fail to recognize it as such!

 

[AnandaHya]

That aint happening until you dead as in the spirit alone when we are in the flesh we cannot achieve spiritual unity with God we may have an overflowing abundance of spirit for a while but that does not nullify our sin it merely sweeps it aside to make use of the vessel that is our body sin can still reenter at a later date. Many Christians decieve them selves by thinking they are saved because they feel freed of their sin yet go out and commit more sin and fail to recognize it as such!

what? are we talking two different languages?

when did we talk about spiritual unity with God?

if they go out and commit more sin they are obviously not being lead by the SPIRIT of God, so how does this even enter the conversation?

Generational curses are no more

.Fester explained it better,

maybe I'm just confusing cus I'm definitely confused by the response to my post.

we may be having communication difficulties me thinks....

 

[AnandaHya]

May God turn this situation around for his glory,in Jesus name amen
Not to go of subject, but my youngest son has dislexia, I have always stood on the word of God for him,
He is now going to college for criminal justice,not to mention he has the gift of wisdom

well praise God for that. can you include the kids in this class in your prayers? I think they could really use them.

 

[damombomb]

well praise God for that. can you include the kids in this class in your prayers? I think they could really use them.

Am happy to! May God bless each and every one of these little ones and turn there lives around for the glory of you Lord,each situation and their families,bless them mightly,for such is the kingdom of God! We ask this in Jesus name amen

 

[AnandaHya]

Am happy to! May God bless each and every one of these little ones and turn there lives around for the glory of you Lord,each situation and their families,bless them mightly,for such is the kingdom of God! We ask this in Jesus name amen

Amen. thanks

 

[zone]

Not entirely or we wouldn't be discussing theology right now eh?

how many examples of Church failure do you want or should I say mens failures because the church of Christ is very much alive.

But lets not get into denominational fracture or we will be chewing the fat for eternity.

You tell me the importance of Joel an OT prophet who was neither there at pentecost and whos words have been misinterpreted

ha?
joel PROPHESIED PENTECOST.

it just happened to come to pass.

finished.
done.
over.
history.
happened.
fulfilled.

 

[zone]

Define Apostle?

Yes you are correct 120 at pentecost not doubting that for a second.

I suppose we should include Judas (although I don't really) and I always forget about barnabas my bad oops! sorry!

but we are way off topic and if I didn't think better I would say that was intentional ZONE

what?
fer.........whatever.