Continuationism vs cessastionism?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#61
#61
Crossfire said:
To answer your question; is God finished building the Church? My answer would have to be no. While the foundations might have already been laid the church is still under construction. Once you start building a structure, you can not change the foundation or it creates instability. I believe there is more than enough evidence that the church is becoming more and more unstable due to certain belief system (Cessationism) trying to add onto a foundation that has already been laid (the Scriptures).
Click to expand...
one of Cessationism basic tenets is that the foundation is already laid by the Apostles and prophets in the first century and they vehemently object to others they perceive as adding to scriptures.

I don't agree with everything they believe but I respect their position and understand why they take their stance.

I find it ironic that a cessationist would agree with everything you posted in the above statement except that the belief system of Cessationism adds to the foundation which is Scripture because that is the main part of their whole message.
 
Last edited:
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#63
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
0
#63
Well there is another can o worms
I never said anything about new age apostles just that the foundational gifts are still in service to say this does not mean we have new age apostles floating around merely that the gifts are still in use.
The phrase "the perfect" when placed in context of the time frame could not refer to the bible as it wasn't completed yet so therefore it must be the second coming of Christ which if I'm not mistaken hasn't happened yet.
Taking gifts for granted is probably the biggest reason for denial of their existence by cessationists.
Today the sun would have to turn black and the moon red just so some would believe and even then many would deny it and say it was merely an iron ore cloud of dust the earth was passing through on its orbit around the sun that caused it.
I have much reservation when it comes to faith healers because so many are nothing more than charlotans so it is easy to see why cessationists blow off continuationists like their off their rocker.
The winter of 1942-1943 was the coldest on record in 100 years Germanys blitzkreig was halted like it ran in to a wall in Russia and on the western front and if it was not for this miraculous turn of events many of us today would be speaking German not English. Some will say that it was just a lucky stroke I think not. More likely is divine intervention than a stroke of good luck.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#64
#64
AnandaHya said:
one of Cessationism basic tenets is that the foundation is already laid by the Apostles and prophets in the first century and they vehemently object to others they perceive as adding to scriptures.

I don't agree with everything they believe but I respect their position and understand why they take their stance.

I find it ironic that a cessationist would agree with everything you posted in the above statement except that the belief system of Cessationism adds to the foundation which is Scripture because that is the main part of their whole message.
Click to expand...
I can understand their position. However, in my opinion, they're the ones attempting to distort the foundation that has already been laid. The invention of an Apostolic era to me is like trying to add to the scriptures. While saying the gifts are no longer needed is like trying to take away from the scriptures.

Although I can totally understand how some would be turned off by the way the certain charismatics act. It is ridiculous.

Anyways, just my opinion for what it's worth.
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#65
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
0
#65
AnandaHya said:
one of Cessationism basic tenets is that the foundation is already laid by the Apostles and prophets in the first century and they vehemently object to others they perceive as adding to scriptures.

I don't agree with everything they believe but I respect their position and understand why they take their stance.

I find it ironic that a cessationist would agree with everything you posted in the above statement except that the belief system of Cessationism adds to the foundation which is Scripture because that is the main part of their whole message.
Click to expand...
I like your eloquence Ana!
 
U

unclefester

Guest
#66
#66
Crossfire said:
I can understand their position. However, in my opinion, they're the ones attempting to distort the foundation that has already been laid. The invention of an Apostolic era to me is like trying to add to the scriptures.
Click to expand...
Crossfire said:
What is an "era" but a fixed point in time in which a period of years is recognized ? When one speaks of the apostolic era, they are simply speaking of the "time period" in which the apostles were physically present upon the earth. There is absolutely nothing "inventive" whatsoever in this statement as I am certain that we will all agree that this is a fact. The apostles were physically present during this era or time period some 2,000 yrs. ago. How does any of what I have just said "distort the foundation that has already been laid" by these chosen of God apostles in whom I wholeheartedly affirm ? To further examine what might be your intended meaning and content , I can only extrapolate that you are a continuationist in the context of believing that the offices of apostles and prophets, much like the "gift of tongues" by today's understanding and interpretation (most generally adhere to all if they are a proponent of one) are still needed and in exisitence today ? If this is the case Crossfire, where and who are these apostles of today ? Were they handpicked by Christ Himself ? Will they be suffering a martyr's death like those of old ? Are the "signs and wonders" .......the miracles they are performing which testify to the fact that Jesus is truly who He claimed he was ......are these miracles of healing and the raising of the dead.....where can I read of them ? Would it be unreasonable for me to conclude that if "God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow", ......so would His chosen apostles be also.....and the things that they perform as a testament to Christ's validity ? Furthermore, "The Acts Of The Apostles" of old is documented and written, inspired by the very Spirit of God Himself. Where can I find similar writings of the acts and words of the "continuation apostles" of the middle years and of today ?? Wouldn't they be serving in the same manner for the cause of Christ as were the true apostles some 2,000 yrs. ago ? Of course they would. And in like manner, so would the "gift of tongues' also be as they were at the pentecost ....i.e.....earthly languages miraculously spoken for the benefit of the non-believers present.
Click to expand...
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#67
#67
Plains of the Serengeti
 
D

DaivdM

Guest
#68
#68
Strangelove said:
Are people being physically raised from the dead?

If not then you have to admit to some kind of cessationism.

you may have to adapt your Def.
Click to expand...
Actually yeah, there still people that God is raising from the dead at this time through his servants
 
4

4runner

Banned
#69
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#69
Crossfire said:
I can understand their position. However, in my opinion, they're the ones attempting to distort the foundation that has already been laid. The invention of an Apostolic era to me is like trying to add to the scriptures. While saying the gifts are no longer needed is like trying to take away from the scriptures.

Although I can totally understand how some would be turned off by the way the certain charismatics act. It is ridiculous.

Anyways, just my opinion for what it's worth.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, especially with the part that the way some Charismatics behave is ridiculous. However that is not reason to make up extra biblical doctrine denying the gifts of the Spirit.

Never throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#75
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
0
#75
DaivdM said:
Why do you think I was talking about youtube?
Click to expand...
Lots of testimonials of raised from the dead on you tube seen probably 10 myself.
That is one I would have to see for myself to believe it and he would have to be dead at least 3 days before I would buy it and yes there is even one of those but the guy Reinhard Bonnke and his charismatic lets save 1.6 million people in 1 night routine I don,t buy or his raisng of a dead man if you listen to three different stories on the same particular show you start to see a trend form and I don't think it had anything to do with Reinhard Bonnke but more than likely the faith of his wife and friends that raised him from his slumber. Watch it and form your own opinion and see what you think
but personally I don't buy it!
 
D

DaivdM

Guest
#76
#76
Muskokaman said:
Lots of testimonials of raised from the dead on you tube seen probably 10 myself.
That is one I would have to see for myself to believe it and he would have to be dead at least 3 days before I would buy it and yes there is even one of those but the guy Reinhard Bonnke and his charismatic lets save 1.6 million people in 1 night routine I don,t buy or his raisng of a dead man if you listen to three different stories on the same particular show you start to see a trend form and I don't think it had anything to do with Reinhard Bonnke but more than likely the faith of his wife and friends that raised him from his slumber. Watch it and form your own opinion and see what you think
but personally I don't buy it!
Click to expand...
You are right, not all testimonies are true,
Jesus said... Bless you who has not seen and believe... We do not walk by sign, but by faith...

You don't believe cuz u have not seem.... That mean you do not have faith...
 
M

Muskokaman

Banned
#77
Aug 18, 2011
971
7
0
#77
DaivdM said:
You are right, not all testimonies are true,
Jesus said... Bless you who has not seen and believe... We do not walk by sign, but by faith...

You don't believe cuz u have not seem.... That mean you do not have faith...
Click to expand...
Nope sorry That means I don't buy parlour tricks. Being dead as in not NDE near death experience but 3 days on the ground and rotting not this rainbow and the serpet thing where a guy is drugged and the effects look or mimic death I mean Death as in decomposition is well underway... if I see that or hear tell of it I will be the first one out the door to go see but as yet no one has shown me any proof of risen from the grave since the apostolic era if you know of some tell me
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#79
#79
unclefester said:
What is an "era" but a fixed point in time in which a period of years is recognized ? When one speaks of the apostolic era, they are simply speaking of the "time period" in which the apostles were physically present upon the earth. There is absolutely nothing "inventive" whatsoever in this statement as I am certain that we will all agree that this is a fact. The apostles were physically present during this era or time period some 2,000 yrs. ago. How does any of what I have just said "distort the foundation that has already been laid" by these chosen of God apostles in whom I wholeheartedly affirm ? To further examine what might be your intended meaning and content , I can only extrapolate that you are a continuationist in the context of believing that the offices of apostles and prophets, much like the "gift of tongues" by today's understanding and interpretation (most generally adhere to all if they are a proponent of one) are still needed and in exisitence today ? If this is the case Crossfire, where and who are these apostles of today ? Were they handpicked by Christ Himself ? Will they be suffering a martyr's death like those of old ? Are the "signs and wonders" .......the miracles they are performing which testify to the fact that Jesus is truly who He claimed he was ......are these miracles of healing and the raising of the dead.....where can I read of them ? Would it be unreasonable for me to conclude that if "God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow", ......so would His chosen apostles be also.....and the things that they perform as a testament to Christ's validity ? Furthermore, "The Acts Of The Apostles" of old is documented and written, inspired by the very Spirit of God Himself. Where can I find similar writings of the acts and words of the "continuation apostles" of the middle years and of today ?? Wouldn't they be serving in the same manner for the cause of Christ as were the true apostles some 2,000 yrs. ago ? Of course they would. And in like manner, so would the "gift of tongues' also be as they were at the pentecost ....i.e.....earthly languages miraculously spoken for the benefit of the non-believers present.
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no biblical evidence of an Apostolic Era. By biblical evidence I am talking about prophecies which predict such a thing in the past. Every major 'ERA' in the bible was preceded with multiple prophecies letting us know what is / was going to happen.

One of God's major calling cards is using prophecies to alert of something before it happens. I do not believe 1 Cor 13 to be such a prophecy because there are no other prophecies to support it like every other major event in the Scriptures.

Again, just my opinion.
 
Last edited:
D

DaivdM

Guest
#80
#80
Muskokaman said:
Nope sorry That means I don't buy parlour tricks. Being dead as in not NDE near death experience but 3 days on the ground and rotting not this rainbow and the serpet thing where a guy is drugged and the effects look or mimic death I mean Death as in decomposition is well underway... if I see that or hear tell of it I will be the first one out the door to go see but as yet no one has shown me any proof of risen from the grave since the apostolic era if you know of some tell me
Click to expand...
Didn't you just say, you dont believe in videos?

I know some people who has done it, but they are Spanish people, not english people....

But do you beleive in those people who has die and gone to heaven and come back?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.