Contrast of The Mega Church with the Bible Believing Church

[posthuman]

Comparing pentecost to mega church ?

you made the statement that churches get to be "MEGA" by teaching 'prossperity and wof'
so here's an obvious example of a 'mega' church that is absolutely contrary to your blanket statement.

it's never safe to assume. so i gave you an example that contradicts your assumption. yeah.

I was once in the crowd of the mega church.

being "in the crowd" in one single church does not make you an expert on every other church that has a certain size congregation.
it doesn't even guarantee that you have any idea what that particular church teaches.
there are probably millions of people in small, cozy "traditional" American churches who are 'in the crowd' there but have no idea what the gospel of Christ is. research continually shows that people can attend churches for decades and not be able to coherently state their church's doctrines or pass a simple Bible quiz. many people are 'in the crowd' at a church for 50, 60 years and never have read the Bible at all, and couldn't tell you what the sermon was about come monday morning.

so when you were 'in the crowd' did you ever go out of your way to actually connect with any bible study groups? talk to elders about doctrine and theology? go deeper at all?
or didja just get herded along like a spectator?

you get out of church something proportional to what you put into it. that goes for any church, mini or mega or in-between.

 

[posthuman]

I wont be responding to you anymore. It is pointless.

i ain't ignoring you tho sweetie

if you want to be seen as petty, unreachable, closed-minded and vain, then be petty, condescending, unreachable and vain.

if you want to be seen as caring about the deeper truths of things, and able to reach out to people with kindness and meekness, then care about things that are beyond superficial, and actually act with mercy and meekness.

it's pretty easy, and it's something everyone can do for themselves.
AND it's Biblical!

 

[gb9]

o.k., real bit of my life right here : I attend a large 1500+ people multiple service church. full band, lights, etc.. on mother's day, I went with my mom to her small country church. now, living in a college town, I can tell you most 20 year olds ain't going to a church that has a 6-8 member choir, piano, and hear a man just stand up and yell LIVE RIGHT OR ELSE!

young people want sound doctrine, Biblical history, hear the historic backdrop of Bible time periods, and also be told to live righteous lives and make good choices. so, there is my personal " mega church" story.

and, nothing wrong with small churches with simple styles, and fire and brimstone messages. but that is not going to fit with everyone. sound doctrine can be and is delivered with different styles.

different does not mean wrong.

 

[Depleted]

How does a church get to be MEGA? Focus on prosperity!
The WOF mention also goes hand and hand with the prosperity church.
I hope that clears it up for you.

How did my church become mega? Well, they started in the 1820's and preached God. People grew in the Lord and took what they learned to practice it in their lives. By the 1850's there were enough people joined together, to need a daughter church. (The parent church isn't around anymore. The Daughter church is now a great grandmother church.) The church became part of the community, (if memory serves me, and it doesn't alway, I think they even housed wounded soldiers when the hospitals couldn't fit them all during the Civil War.)

They landed on the conservative side of the fundamentalist-modernist controversy in the 1920's and
Donald Barnhouse became the Teaching Elder. He started some radio show, which seems to have been one of those first radio shows and preached the Bible. (You can even still hear some of his shows.) After him was James Boice, and it kept growing. It kept growing because it maintains its stance on teaching nothing but Bible and does so by starting on Gen. 1:1 and working all the way through to Revelations before returning back to Genesis. And it helps the community by feeding the hungry, (both God's food and fill-your-stomach food), housing homeless, giving clothes to those who need clothes, counseling people with sexual sin, going on college campuses to help the students and staff to know God better, helping the disabled and getting help from the disabled, missionaries around the world, teaching people how to budget, and so much more.

And when enough people from some area around them needs a place closer to home and a place to reach out to a more local community, the spend the time and money to develop another daughter church.

My church has doctors and lawyers. One of our doctors went to DC for a while to be the Surgeon General -- C. Everett Coop. Some of our members start businesses. One you may have heard of even though his stores closed since he died -- John Wanamaker. One of the women in our church is forever struggling with Lyme Disease. She had a service dog for a while, until the dog dies. She wrote a newsletter for Disabled people around the country, so other churches could learn how to start their own disabled grou in their churches. The problem is she is always in great pain, so she writes when she can. Used to be a quarterly newsletter. Now it might come out about once every two years. Do you think she's poor? Nope. Her husband runs the IT department for one of our more famous area hospitals.

Another member was a friend of mine. She's not known for anything famous, but she did amazingly well being a single mom in a wheelchair living on the minimum Social Security gives people who were born disabled. Her daughter got a great education.

And then there is this cool brother I use to love. He's from Beirut Lebanon, until his Catholic family had to leave in a hurry because of a civil war where the instigators decided to kill all the Christians. Somewhere between that little scared boy and the man I knew, he came to know the Lord, moved to America, got a good job analyzing soil before his company built science labs and chemical plants around Philly. I met him when he was one of two Ruling Elders who tried to keep a struggling daughter church going in our section of the city. By then he was just getting to the point of becoming an American citizen and had met and married to love of his life. They had a baby, but lived here they didn't feel safe raising their daughter, so they moved away from the city. Last I heard (which was after they moved away), he was spearheading trying to start another daughter church i my section of the city.

So we have rich, we have poor, we have in-between. We have Republicans, Democrats and probably more than one Libertarian. We have kids, we have old people, and a lot of in-betweens. We have babes in Christ, learned scholars, and a lot of in-between.

What is your problem with "megachurches?" Start a church in 2016 and follow God. If it's not huge by 2200, something went wrong. Someone forgot the focus is on God. People are hungry for God. All they need to is hear the message. God does the rest!

 

[MsSuzanna]

How did my church become mega? Well, they started in the 1820's and preached God. People grew in the Lord and took what they learned to practice it in their lives. By the 1850's there were enough people joined together, to need a daughter church. (The parent church isn't around anymore. The Daughter church is now a great grandmother church.) The church became part of the community, (if memory serves me, and it doesn't alway, I think they even housed wounded soldiers when the hospitals couldn't fit them all during the Civil War.)

They landed on the conservative side of the fundamentalist-modernist controversy in the 1920's and
Donald Barnhouse became the Teaching Elder. He started some radio show, which seems to have been one of those first radio shows and preached the Bible. (You can even still hear some of his shows.) After him was James Boice, and it kept growing. It kept growing because it maintains its stance on teaching nothing but Bible and does so by starting on Gen. 1:1 and working all the way through to Revelations before returning back to Genesis. And it helps the community by feeding the hungry, (both God's food and fill-your-stomach food), housing homeless, giving clothes to those who need clothes, counseling people with sexual sin, going on college campuses to help the students and staff to know God better, helping the disabled and getting help from the disabled, missionaries around the world, teaching people how to budget, and so much more.

And when enough people from some area around them needs a place closer to home and a place to reach out to a more local community, the spend the time and money to develop another daughter church.

My church has doctors and lawyers. One of our doctors went to DC for a while to be the Surgeon General -- C. Everett Coop. Some of our members start businesses. One you may have heard of even though his stores closed since he died -- John Wanamaker. One of the women in our church is forever struggling with Lyme Disease. She had a service dog for a while, until the dog dies. She wrote a newsletter for Disabled people around the country, so other churches could learn how to start their own disabled grou in their churches. The problem is she is always in great pain, so she writes when she can. Used to be a quarterly newsletter. Now it might come out about once every two years. Do you think she's poor? Nope. Her husband runs the IT department for one of our more famous area hospitals.

Another member was a friend of mine. She's not known for anything famous, but she did amazingly well being a single mom in a wheelchair living on the minimum Social Security gives people who were born disabled. Her daughter got a great education.

And then there is this cool brother I use to love. He's from Beirut Lebanon, until his Catholic family had to leave in a hurry because of a civil war where the instigators decided to kill all the Christians. Somewhere between that little scared boy and the man I knew, he came to know the Lord, moved to America, got a good job analyzing soil before his company built science labs and chemical plants around Philly. I met him when he was one of two Ruling Elders who tried to keep a struggling daughter church going in our section of the city. By then he was just getting to the point of becoming an American citizen and had met and married to love of his life. They had a baby, but lived here they didn't feel safe raising their daughter, so they moved away from the city. Last I heard (which was after they moved away), he was spearheading trying to start another daughter church i my section of the city.

So we have rich, we have poor, we have in-between. We have Republicans, Democrats and probably more than one Libertarian. We have kids, we have old people, and a lot of in-betweens. We have babes in Christ, learned scholars, and a lot of in-between.

What is your problem with "megachurches?" Start a church in 2016 and follow God. If it's not huge by 2200, something went wrong. Someone forgot the focus is on God. People are hungry for God. All they need to is hear the message. God does the rest!

I am not speaking of the church established by God and one that has grown to be large. I am speaking of the mega churches that have cropped up in mass numbers who are not established in Christ. There is a difference and the difference is Christ.

 

[posthuman]

i just think it's wrong to be condescending towards great swaths of Christianity, especially ones in which God appears to be moving, reaching people with the gospel --

-- when we basically have zero knowledge of what's being taught in all these places. we're being judgemental, making unsubstantiated assumptions, and fairly-well high-brow and snooty about the whole thing, and it doesn't smell like good behaviour to me.

that's all.

if anyone has got specific issues with specific pastors or teachings, that's something else entirely.
but condemning every church over a certain membership level or every church that has a worship group who plays a certain musical style -- even if you put in a little caveat in fine print: not every church is like this but in general
folks.. what good is coming from this?
we sound like the world. judging by appearance, not righteous judgement.

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.
(John 7:24)​

you want to judge me and ignore me because i say stuff like this?
fine. it's not on my head. i'm just relating what i hear the Spirit inside me saying, 'cause i figure that's my job and the whole reason that God would bother giving me any kind of understanding in the first place: to share it.
if i'm mis-interpreting what's going on here, then sorry 'bout that -- in that case, this post isn't about you. it's about what we ought to be careful not to do.

 

[Depleted]

Thats the whole point! Christ is the truth! The word is Christ. He is the MAIN focus in biblically sound churches. A biblically sound church does not add in all the worshiptainment. They dont need to

What you described as a "Bible-believing church" isn't. What you described as the opposite of your version of Mega Church is no better than a Mega Church (by your definition of the word.)

It's rather like worrying about roaches because lice are so much better. Don't you see that?

 

[Sirk]

i ain't ignoring you tho sweetie

if you want to be seen as petty, unreachable, closed-minded and vain, then be petty, condescending, unreachable and vain.

if you want to be seen as caring about the deeper truths of things, and able to reach out to people with kindness and meekness, then care about things that are beyond superficial, and actually act with mercy and meekness.

it's pretty easy, and it's something everyone can do for themselves.
AND it's Biblical!

Blessed is the peacemaker. I've always wondered why the people who have the most turmoil in their own lives somehow think they can do better in everyone else's.

 

[Depleted]

Lynn -

nah, don't bother.

​

love,
post

LOL Right after I learn why a donkey's son is called a colt too. (Part of my list of things I'll never get around to researching. lol)

 

[MsSuzanna]

What you described as a "Bible-believing church" isn't. What you described as the opposite of your version of Mega Church is no better than a Mega Church (by your definition of the word.)

It's rather like worrying about roaches because lice are so much better. Don't you see that?

It's rather like worrying about roaches because lice are so much better.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[ladylynn]

Nope. Some of that isnt true in a biblical church. Which btw, you can find a biblical church that isnt mega. It will not bring the multitudes in this day and age. People do not want a bible studying church but they want a church where they get entertained ad their ears tickled. Which btw, Ill divide myself from the worldly church any day of the week. I will NOT be a part of a church where Jesus isnt the focus but the worshiptainment with a 15 minute commentary on one scripture is. Jesus said this would happen. Its happening. WOF, prosperity, filthy lucre has surely taken its stand hasnt it. And guess what? It will surely NOT stand!

Years ago when our family first got saved and we joined the church we had a wonderful beginning. The people who discipled us were older seasoned Christians who had ministered in the same church for years and had families in the church for 2 and 3 generations. They and their kids got married in this church and they were now raising their families there and their kids were having babies in this Bible Baptist church.

Even the man who was the pastor of the church 30yrs before went there with his wife. All about family and sameness in the community. A feeling of security. I remember the smell of the old and lovely wooden pews., the summer icecream socials, the Bible studies, the feminine frilly dresses we wore and the men with their 3 piece suits., the smell of the church sanctuary and the Sunday school rooms.

The smell of leather Bibles and the sound of the crinkling rice paper of our brand new Scoifield Bibles in the services when the pastor said "turn to verse...." The feeling of sameness and unity as we all turned the pages and you could hear the crinkling ... was very comforting.

This church joined with other Bible Baptist churches in the surrounding areas as far as 6 hours away or more and we all met in this old huge barn a Christian family owned and donated for the use of the preaching and housing for the use of those pastors their families who would be preaching that conference week. It was called Saddlebag Bible Conference here in NY. It was held in the Summers.

The memories were wonderful and to this day leave their marks on those of us who were part of this fellowship. Because of this fellowship in our churches we know all the old time hymns and can sing in just about any church. This church and it's fellowship no longer exsist. The Saddlebag Bible Conferences in the Summer here in NY is gone. Mostly due to time and change of people's lives as well as church doctrinal differences.

There was a major argument between those that were perceived to be Armenian because they didn't preach election. While the 5 point Calvinists as we know feel it is a calling to preach it and preach it loudly as it is the 'whole counsel of God"

Some could not "in good conscience" share a pulpit with those who were preaching a false Gospel and erring from the faith. They must be disciplined by not being fellowshipped with so they would know the errors of their ways. The poor owners of the Conference grounds lost the support of all the churches and no longer could afford to keep it going.

I say allllll this to say this., Times change and people change. Types of worship change and buildings change. The idea of "Gimmie that Old time religion gimme that old time religion gimme that old time religion...it's good enough for me. It was good enough for grandpa it was good enough for grandma it was good enough for Jesus., it's good enough for me........" is not something the Bible teaches. It's man's wonderful traditions that gave us security in a world of change. People will fight for this even to the death of a church body. How sad is that??

Mega churches are not of the devil and do not follow the list you posted. I did read your disclaimer but it seems a mute point in light of your major comparisons. People now use computers., can feed live services all over the world. Preaching that was once only blessing a few are now blessing hundreds and thousands and millions.

The last days of the church is an amazing time as the gospel of Jesus Christ goes out all over and people are getting saved even in tiny pockets of communities. As well has huge metropolitan areas. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is going on everywhere. To expect the "good ol religion' to flourish is only a pining after man's traditions and not God's truth. Our world has changed drastically even in the last 10 years let alone the last 40. God's church will stand and is standing despite whether some angry people won't join and don't like the style of the music or the preaching and teaching or the way technical equipment is set up so the services can be seen all over the world.

Just like good ol Saddlebag Bible Conferences., God's Word has progressed in spite of people's inability to change with the progression.

Just a side note .., many young people no longer use old leather Bibles with rice paper and the smell of the leather. They use IPads and that kind of stuff. They prefer it. (I don't prefer the absence of books to touch and turn the pages., I'm used to my old leather KJB Bible) But am learning to use Gateway Bible lookup on line!!! Which makes a person more spiritual??

 

[Depleted]

i ain't ignoring you tho sweetie

if you want to be seen as petty, unreachable, closed-minded and vain, then be petty, condescending, unreachable and vain.

if you want to be seen as caring about the deeper truths of things, and able to reach out to people with kindness and meekness, then care about things that are beyond superficial, and actually act with mercy and meekness.

it's pretty easy, and it's something everyone can do for themselves.
AND it's Biblical!

Easy for you. Not easy for me.

 

[Sirk]

We will have to agree to disagree.

The only churches I've experienced like the ones you describe on here are bunch people dressed up real nice looking down their nose at people who aint in the in....if you know what I mean.

 

[Rosesrock]

Note: These statements are generalizations for the purpose of clarifying basic positions and principles. This does not mean that every so-called Mega Church is guilty of everything described in the left hand column. Neither does this mean that every Bible-believing church faithfully embodies everything stated in the right hand column.

I'm not sure why this is being discussed at all. This statement voids any opinion made that is relevant to the discussion. It's just a mud slinging activity and not productive.

 

[Rosesrock]

The only churches I've experienced like the ones you describe on here are bunch people dressed up real nice looking down their nose at people who aint in the in....if you know what I mean.

Fill out the visitors card in front of you so we can know you visited is today. Thank you for coming.

 

[posthuman]

I'm not sure why this is being discussed at all. This statement voids any opinion made that is relevant to the discussion. It's just a mud slinging activity and not productive.

it makes the point of the whole thread nothing but mud-slinging, and admittedly unjustifiable at that, doesn't it?

 

[Depleted]

I am not speaking of the church established by God and one that has grown to be large. I am speaking of the mega churches that have cropped up in mass numbers who are not established in Christ. There is a difference and the difference is Christ.

How mass of a number have they crept up with, if two of us have never even heard of them? You'd think creeping huge churches would be more noticeable.

I suspect what's happening here is you slapped on a label for a group you don't like and expect the world to know what the label means. If you're not against huge churches, who are you against? And, if you're all about being against, when do you consider what you're for?

I really am against grace-only people. I know their word is "word of faith," but since "word of faith" is a phrase in the Bible and they distorted is so much, it has stopped being biblical, I won't use that phrase often to describe them.

They are into believing people can heal themselves if they get into the program and believe just right. That's not biblical. They believe everyone ought to make them rich. That's not biblical.

I am against grace-only people because they teach a false gospel. I am FOR God's message, his Bible, God.

No need to keep up with the latest in the gossip column to figure out where I stand. (Which probably also explains why I've heard of both Hillsong and Illuminati, but don't know either.)

I am also very much against any group of people who spend their time thinking everyone should act just like them. You're talking to someone whose only choices of "fashion" are overalls or dresses that don't bind at the waist. Since I also can't wear a bra, the dress requires a slip, making it too hot in the summer, and "dress," so too cold in the winter. SO you are telling someone stuck in overalls who has a tendency to be asked if I'm a farmer by other city folks about once a month to assume I should be getting decked out and singing just the right songs every week when you see me. (I also cannot sing!!!)

Not ever! Not ever going to happen, but that's the exact message you gave me in your version of a "Bible-believing Church."

You're so busy being against a group I'm not even sure if it does describe the grace-only people (because I only meet them on here and don't ask how they're dressed or what they do for church) you have absolutely no idea you're also putting down so many other people too!

THAT IS DISTURBING! And that's from the lady who has learned not to roll my eyes at that once-a-monther who thinks he's original for asking some chick at the grocery store or walking down a street right smack in the middle of a city, "are you a farmer?" I don't even think they're disturbing. (Just not very original. lol)

 

[Rosesrock]

it makes the point of the whole thread nothing but mud-slinging, and admittedly unjustifiable at that, doesn't it?

Unless we get to the bottom of the real argument?
And actually be productive.
Is it mega churches are bad? Not Christ filled?
I'm fuzzy on the facts and I say I'm a good chart reader but since the general statement was there I quit thinking. Rofl

 

[posthuman]

Unless we get to the bottom of the real argument?
And actually be productive.
Is it mega churches are bad? Not Christ filled?
I'm fuzzy on the facts and I say I'm a good chart reader but since the general statement was there I quit thinking. Rofl

i'm not very clear on the facts either.
i think she doesn't like this popular worship-music group called Hillsong . .
((& i gotta admit a lot of their music is kind of fluffy & to my liking, but then again i listen to unblack death metal that's 'too heavy' even for most metalheads when i'm alone in the car, and worship God with it - so i ain't about to step up to judge Hillsong et al, because a lot of it actually does praise God))
. . and i think there's the assumption that Benny Hinn and/or Joel Osteen is personally behind every church that has seating for 500 or more, providing sermon transcripts... maybe??

 

[Sirk]

Unless we get to the bottom of the real argument?
And actually be productive.
Is it mega churches are bad? Not Christ filled?
I'm fuzzy on the facts and I say I'm a good chart reader but since the general statement was there I quit thinking. Rofl

I think someone saw Joel Osteen on tv and thinks all big churches are like that.