Contrast of The Mega Church with the Bible Believing Church

MsSuzanna · May 22, 2016

How mass of a number have they crept up with, if two of us have never even heard of them? You'd think creeping huge churches would be more noticeable.

I suspect what's happening here is you slapped on a label for a group you don't like and expect the world to know what the label means. If you're not against huge churches, who are you against? And, if you're all about being against, when do you consider what you're for?

I really am against grace-only people. I know their word is "word of faith," but since "word of faith" is a phrase in the Bible and they distorted is so much, it has stopped being biblical, I won't use that phrase often to describe them.

They are into believing people can heal themselves if they get into the program and believe just right. That's not biblical. They believe everyone ought to make them rich. That's not biblical.

I am against grace-only people because they teach a false gospel. I am FOR God's message, his Bible, God.

No need to keep up with the latest in the gossip column to figure out where I stand. (Which probably also explains why I've heard of both Hillsong and Illuminati, but don't know either.)

I am also very much against any group of people who spend their time thinking everyone should act just like them. You're talking to someone whose only choices of "fashion" are overalls or dresses that don't bind at the waist. Since I also can't wear a bra, the dress requires a slip, making it too hot in the summer, and "dress," so too cold in the winter. SO you are telling someone stuck in overalls who has a tendency to be asked if I'm a farmer by other city folks about once a month to assume I should be getting decked out and singing just the right songs every week when you see me. (I also cannot sing!!!)

Not ever! Not ever going to happen, but that's the exact message you gave me in your version of a "Bible-believing Church."

You're so busy being against a group I'm not even sure if it does describe the grace-only people (because I only meet them on here and don't ask how they're dressed or what they do for church) you have absolutely no idea you're also putting down so many other people too!

THAT IS DISTURBING! And that's from the lady who has learned not to roll my eyes at that once-a-monther who thinks he's original for asking some chick at the grocery store or walking down a street right smack in the middle of a city, "are you a farmer?" I don't even think they're disturbing. (Just not very original. lol)

All one need do is simply agree to disagree . One just needs to be willing to simply be quiet and bow out gracefully...................

Depleted · May 22, 2016

ladylynn said:

And that's where you miss it. God does not progress.

Number 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?

Hebrew 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Depleted · May 22, 2016

Sirk said:

Come to my church. Most of them are all dressed up, but their noses are low. We tend to realize we aren't what God wants. We fail often. We need God. Really hard to keep noses high when you've remembered you just failed again just coming to church. And if you forget? Don't worry. The Teaching Elder will be saying it from his experience.

Depleted · May 22, 2016

MsSuzanna said:

Ummmm? Haven't you noticed yet? Neither one of us is that lady.

posthuman · May 22, 2016

the subject has come up at a couple of homegroups i go to more than once, since we have a church out in the county with somewhere between 3 and 4,000 members, and we're a pretty small town, so we all run into people wearing the church's t-shirts at grocery stores etc. and get invited to go to the place monthly.

one of the people at one of my groups teaches preaching at a local seminary. he brought up a really good point -- how are you supposed to preach when you become the pastor at a place with this many people?
the question isn't "should i present Biblical teaching or heresy" -- it's how do you approach sunday morning knowing that there is a huge crowd, and a big proportion of them are not even believers, and a big proportion of the actual believers don't have much knowledge of the Bible and a lot of them may not even have an accurate picture of the actual gospel?

can you preach "meat" or do you need to stick with "milk" ?
do you go for the lowest or the highest common denominator? leave 90% of the crowd behind, not understanding the level you're speaking at, or leave 10% of the crowd possibly bored, presenting basic doctrine that a minority of the congregation has down solidly?

and how do you approach sundays as the worship leader in a place like that? do you schedule antiquated music that no one connects with? or do you look for relevant music that still praises God, but is in the style of the songs that most of the congregation probably listens to on the radio all week on the local Christian station?
should praise and worship music be something that the people can relate to and sing from their heart, or something largely alien that they will struggle with and not connect with?

there are enormous logistical problems at churches like this.
logistical problems that extend far beyond parking, seating, lighting and air conditioning.

we found out in our discussions in Bible study groups that we're all guilty to some degree of judging the local 'mega-church' without cause, by appearance, and not rightly. there are a lot of assumptions we all make about it that probably aren't true, and a lot of things we didn't consider.

another example is that we have no idea, for the most part, what their small groups are like -- a few people we know had been to one or two - with varying results. but the same kind of variation exists in our own congregation. the brother who teaches preaching has preached and been involved in a whole lot of churches in a couple parts of the country, and his experience is that the same kind of variation is everywhere -- it's probably a lot more pronounced in a mega-church just by virtue of scale.

i don't think we give these places nearly the credit we ought to, and i don't think we really consider them with anything like full understanding -- because that's the truth of it in my local congregation, and i bet your congregation - wherever you are - is not much different, when it comes down to it.

Sirk · May 22, 2016

MsSuzanna said:

Wait what? Am I hearing you correctly that because she disagrees with you it's her that is supposed to go away?

posthuman · May 22, 2016

Depleted said:

not as easy as it may appear

i actually do a lot of 'type-type-type . . preview-post . . backspace-backspace-backspace . . select-all . . delete'

Depleted said:

did i tell you i love you yet today?

♥

GaryA · May 22, 2016

posthuman said:

"Yep... I know what you mean... I do a lot of that, too..."

GaryA · May 22, 2016

GaryA said:

I was planning to write a post about "the balance between two extremes" -- where, one extreme is purely 'ecumenical' - and, the other I like to call "ritualistic legalism"...

I believe that both extremes - each in their own way - defy Biblical truth, and serve to diminish spiritual growth.

I believe that the 'ideal' - what I believe it was actually like in the first century church(es) - is somewhere between the two extremes.

I believe that most churches today have moved - in one direction or the other - away from 'center' ( the 'ideal' ). The proper "balance" is very rare to find these days...

"More on that later? Maybe. We will see..."

Rosesrock · May 22, 2016

posthuman said:

Sirk said:

Thanks guys. I appreciate it. That's what I thought but wasnt sure.

Billyd · May 22, 2016

As I read through this discussion, one thing comes to mind. The multitude of believers that will be gathered around the throne of God worshiping him.

We worship in a small congregation, but we always have room for one more. It is a tremendous burden on my heart to see my brothers and sisters in Christ want to limit God's gatherings to a few. I pray that every worship gathering doubles the next time they meet.

ladylynn · May 22, 2016

Depleted said:

Is that the ONLY place I've "missed it" on that loooong post? wow I must be getting better??

..

But yet again Lynn, as you have done more often than not with me on these threads on CC ... you misunderstand my writing. God's Word has not changed but the way God has been spreading the Gospel around the world has.

The church and the way we meet and where-why and how has changed. God's Word is the only thing that hasn't changed and He has kept it for us all these years as He promised. These days we are able to access it faster., with more in depth understanding of the history and ways of the times. We are able to be even more blessed by hearing many more men and women of God teaching and preaching than they were able to do years ago. Just like I thought I made clear on the previous post. You seem to consistently find problems with my words.

Is there anything else???

MsSuzanna · May 22, 2016

Billyd said:

No reason to be grieved . I am not asserting we limit. I am asserting that the mega church limits God. Its a vast difference of perception

MsSuzanna · May 22, 2016

"What we bring them with is what we bring them to"

ladylynn · May 22, 2016

posthuman said:

the subject has come up at a couple of homegroups i go to more than once, since we have a church out in the county with somewhere between 3 and 4,000 members, and we're a pretty small town, so we all run into people wearing the church's t-shirts at grocery stores etc. and get invited to go to the place monthly.

one of the people at one of my groups teaches preaching at a local seminary. he brought up a really good point -- how are you supposed to preach when you become the pastor at a place with this many people?
the question isn't "should i present Biblical teaching or heresy" -- it's how do you approach sunday morning knowing that there is a huge crowd, and a big proportion of them are not even believers, and a big proportion of the actual believers don't have much knowledge of the Bible and a lot of them may not even have an accurate picture of the actual gospel?

can you preach "meat" or do you need to stick with "milk" ?
do you go for the lowest or the highest common denominator? leave 90% of the crowd behind, not understanding the level you're speaking at, or leave 10% of the crowd possibly bored, presenting basic doctrine that a minority of the congregation has down solidly?

and how do you approach sundays as the worship leader in a place like that? do you schedule antiquated music that no one connects with? or do you look for relevant music that still praises God, but is in the style of the songs that most of the congregation probably listens to on the radio all week on the local Christian station?
should praise and worship music be something that the people can relate to and sing from their heart, or something largely alien that they will struggle with and not connect with?

there are enormous logistical problems at churches like this.
logistical problems that extend far beyond parking, seating, lighting and air conditioning.

we found out in our discussions in Bible study groups that we're all guilty to some degree of judging the local 'mega-church' without cause, by appearance, and not rightly. there are a lot of assumptions we all make about it that probably aren't true, and a lot of things we didn't consider.

another example is that we have no idea, for the most part, what their small groups are like -- a few people we know had been to one or two - with varying results. but the same kind of variation exists in our own congregation. the brother who teaches preaching has preached and been involved in a whole lot of churches in a couple parts of the country, and his experience is that the same kind of variation is everywhere -- it's probably a lot more pronounced in a mega-church just by virtue of scale.

i don't think we give these places nearly the credit we ought to, and i don't think we really consider them with anything like full understanding -- because that's the truth of it in my local congregation, and i bet your congregation - wherever you are - is not much different, when it comes down to it.

Exactly and those are really good points you make. And another side to it is THIS IS A WONDERFUL "PROBLEM" if you will. How do we minister to allllllllllllllllllllll these people who keep coming to our church?? That is a wonderful "problem" The people are coming and the opportunity is there to give the Gospel out. What better "problem" for the church today!?

MsSuzanna · May 22, 2016

ladylynn said:

I fear you miss the point entirely. The people come because the whole gospel is not preached. Therefore, many unconverted souls headed straight for hell

If you think all churches preach the correct gospel you may be sadly mistaken

Christ didnt say in end times more truth would prevail but he said :

Unfortunately, many will be deceived into following the wrong Jesus. The apostle Paul wrote, “I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough” (2 Corinthians 11:3, 4, NIV). The apostle is writing to the Christians of the early church. He warns them concerning false apostles who were preaching about a Jesus who is not the real Jesus of the Bible—a fictitious Jesus, a fabrication of the corrupt imaginations and erroneous thinking of those who want to deceive God’s people. The gospel associated with this false christ is a different gospel; it is not the gospel recorded in the Bible and preached by the true apostles. Further, this false gospel is accompanied by a counterfeit spirit—not the Holy Spirit.
Who is behind these false christs? It is none other than Satan himself. Speaking of these false christs and false prophets, Paul wrote, “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Is it not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15, NIV). These false christs masquerade as “servants of righteousness,” just as their master, Satan, masquerades as an angel of light.
In addition to these false christs—false teachers and prophets—the Bible says that just before Jesus returns a “man of lawlessness will appear visibly on Earth. “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4, NIV). In this profound prophecy of last-day events, the Bible says there is going to be a rebellion, an apostasy, a great falling away from the faith. In conjunction with this apostasy, a “man of lawlessness will appear. This individual is truly a false christ of the greatest magnitude. He is also known as the Antichrist. This great false christ will set himself up in God’s temple and counterfeit the ministry of Jesus.
What will happen to this false Christ and how will we recognize him? The Bible says, “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:8-10, NIV). The followers of the counterfeit christ are deceived because they refuse to love God’s truth as revealed in his Holy Bible.
Jesus emphasized that it is not enough to simply profess the name of the Lord in order to enter into heaven. Besides taking the name of a follower of Jesus, we also need to actually follow Him. We need to do the Father’s will. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 7:21, NIV). Jesus also declares, “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:40, NIV). Thus we need to look to Jesus, God’s Son. We need to spend time contemplating His life and the words He spoke and the things He did. Jesus assures us, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24, NIV).
Tragically, those who are deceived in the last days by these false christs will sincerely regard themselves to be genuine believers, actively doing the work of Christ. They will even prophesy in the name of Jesus, cast out demons in the name of Jesus, and work miracles in His name. But they are serving a false Christ—not the real Jesus. “Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers’ ” (Matthew 7:22, 23, NIV). The followers of the false Christ disregard the commandments of Jesus. In contrast, Jesus declares, “Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him” (John 14:21, NIV).

psalm6819 · May 22, 2016

Yet said:

so if there are 15 what would be done if a married couple had 6 kids??? Sorry, but no room at the inn?

breno785au · May 22, 2016

psalm6819 said:

If they had 13 kids, they'd have to stay at home!

Depleted · May 22, 2016

Sirk said:

Oh, no, no, no! Not that at all. Suzanna and I have an agreement. If she thinks I'm being well... me -- the person that gets mouthy and arrogant on here -- she can call me on it. I asked her for that help. She thought I was being that, but at that moment I really wasn't. (I'm still no lady, so it gets hard to tell who is here -- Dr. Jekyll or Ms. Hyde. lol)

Depleted · May 22, 2016

GaryA said:

Whew! Good thing you didn't do that then, or I fear I'd have to google eucumenical and ritualistic legalism. The first would just be looking up a definition (outside my Catholic school training), but the second would take a while to figure out. Whew! Avoided homework.

Contrast of The Mega Church with the Bible Believing Church

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