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VW - I never use the word heresy nor do I accuse anyone of being a heretic because it is a very misunderstood term and that makes the application of it the same. People get very reactionary, introspective, defensive and wreckless with that term and I know it is biblical with legitimate applications. I have not accused you of any such thing and hope that you acknowledge that in the grace of God. A very dear friend of mine thinks that you are a dear man of God and would never think evil about you nor do I.
I believe that we should be rooted in the apostle's doctrine that we have been given and realize that it was given to them by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. We, as members of the body of Christ, should not have different views or a diverse understanding about the doctrine we have been given as scripture. I learned this as a babe in Christ and have profited from this greatly. Doctrine has never decieved me nor have I handled it deceitfully because it always reveals the nature and mind of our Lord Jesus Christ. I can no more separated the word and doctrine from Jesus Christ then I can separate the bread from a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. The word is Christ and Christ is the word, it became flesh and dwelt among the brethren and he is being formed in us through the word and Spirit (Gal 4:19). The Holy Spirit put (Ps 119) in the scriptures for a very good reason. I hope that you will see and understand that the word of God is the bread of life that came down from heaven.
Jn 6: 45-63
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I believe that we should be rooted in the apostle's doctrine that we have been given and realize that it was given to them by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. We, as members of the body of Christ, should not have different views or a diverse understanding about the doctrine we have been given as scripture. I learned this as a babe in Christ and have profited from this greatly. Doctrine has never decieved me nor have I handled it deceitfully because it always reveals the nature and mind of our Lord Jesus Christ. I can no more separated the word and doctrine from Jesus Christ then I can separate the bread from a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. The word is Christ and Christ is the word, it became flesh and dwelt among the brethren and he is being formed in us through the word and Spirit (Gal 4:19). The Holy Spirit put (Ps 119) in the scriptures for a very good reason. I hope that you will see and understand that the word of God is the bread of life that came down from heaven.
Jn 6: 45-63
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I don' think that I said all views, but differing views of the godhead. And I also believe that I wrote that if one believes in Jesus as Lord, and believes that He was raised from the dead, so I did qualify somewhat.
Now what I contest and actually detest is calling someone who loves Jesus a heretic. I wonder just how one can know Jesus and call another who loves Jesus such a name. It is why I posted the passage from 1st John.
If one uses scripture in such a way, it makes me at best uneasy, and at worst, very sad.
Now what I contest and actually detest is calling someone who loves Jesus a heretic. I wonder just how one can know Jesus and call another who loves Jesus such a name. It is why I posted the passage from 1st John.
If one uses scripture in such a way, it makes me at best uneasy, and at worst, very sad.
Sadly, again you have not read what I have been writing. I believe you do not understand what the debate actually is all about.
If you do not believe in the Triune God, but you say you believe in Jesus then tell me VW what Jesus are they talking about.
My Friend that is the crux of the matter!
Blessings
Phil
They call me a heretic because like you they simply follow the opinions of men. I am a heretic to them and you because I actually believe the words of the Bible above man
That they may know you ,the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
The Father is greater than I
The Father is greater than all
Now when it says that everything has been put under him(Jesus) it is clear that this does not include God Himself who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will become subject to him who put everything under him so that God may be all in all.
That they may know you ,the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
The Father is greater than I
The Father is greater than all
Now when it says that everything has been put under him(Jesus) it is clear that this does not include God Himself who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will become subject to him who put everything under him so that God may be all in all.
thank you. (I'm not a cessationist tho)Oh Man I debated this with your last night, remember I kept haveing to refer you to post #111, im sure you remember.
I am afraid Living bygrace, the simple matter of the fact is. if you do not believe in the Triune God then that is heresy.
You keep using this one liner..''' the Father is greater than all'' wow do I agree, but not how you falsly use it. again, I refer you to the post I had to keep refering you to last night.
Blessings
Phil
Brother,
I am sickened by these replies which are so full of self righteousness and so called correct belief. I believe as do you that Jesus is the Son of God. I believe that He is God just as the Spirit is God. I believe that the Father is above all, greater than all. I have seen this often, when some stand on scripture rather than in the Spirit and use the written word to condemn those who Jesus shed His blood for. And if they just could stop and seek the heart of God, seek the conviction of the Spirit, they would repent of this work they seem to believe so ardently is of God.
Just a few weeks ago, I was roundly attacked, by several, for taking up for a whole group of believers who were being condemned unjustly. I tried to answer, but nothing was accomplished other than to cause more hurt and confusion. It seems that some christians have developed a shell around their hearts which does not allow compassion to enter or leave. Words spoken or written in the spirit of being correct will never heal, will never save, will never bring unity in Christ. They only bring hurt, division, sin.
And so, I am leaving this discussion, just as my brother David recommended not so long ago.
I am sorry that it has come to this,
In His most worthy love,
vic
I am sickened by these replies which are so full of self righteousness and so called correct belief. I believe as do you that Jesus is the Son of God. I believe that He is God just as the Spirit is God. I believe that the Father is above all, greater than all. I have seen this often, when some stand on scripture rather than in the Spirit and use the written word to condemn those who Jesus shed His blood for. And if they just could stop and seek the heart of God, seek the conviction of the Spirit, they would repent of this work they seem to believe so ardently is of God.
Just a few weeks ago, I was roundly attacked, by several, for taking up for a whole group of believers who were being condemned unjustly. I tried to answer, but nothing was accomplished other than to cause more hurt and confusion. It seems that some christians have developed a shell around their hearts which does not allow compassion to enter or leave. Words spoken or written in the spirit of being correct will never heal, will never save, will never bring unity in Christ. They only bring hurt, division, sin.
And so, I am leaving this discussion, just as my brother David recommended not so long ago.
I am sorry that it has come to this,
In His most worthy love,
vic
LBG,
I am not a man pleaser, I'm not sure if that is how you view your time debating the heretical view you hold. I am not debating here to please creaturely ears but to stand for truth the best I can. I may not have an eloquent style, I may not be the most educated. But I will stand for truth of scripture.
May I add that your own tone at times does not serve well. If my tone has been wrong I certainly do apologise for that. However, I will not, and I mean I will not stop telling the truth of Scripture to please mens ears.
And I must admit If your advice is good then it will be taken onboard, However, all you have done throughout this discussion is espouse a heresy concerning our One true God, the great I am, the Triune God.
Blessings
Phil
VW
You are of course correct.So much of this is not about defending the Gospel but self righteousness and self promotion. No Christian being led by the Spirit could say that there is no true Christianity if we simply believe that Jesus is the Son of God. There are far too many scriptures attaining to Christ as the Son of God. It was what he claimed to be and told Peter when he said. You are the Christ. The Son of the Living Giod
God has blessed you Son of Jonah, this was not revealed to you by man but by my Father in Heaven.
The tone of many replies here shows what is the driving force behind them. I will follow your Christian example and also withdraw from this discussion
God Bless for the example yoiu show by the Holy Spirit within you
You are of course correct.So much of this is not about defending the Gospel but self righteousness and self promotion. No Christian being led by the Spirit could say that there is no true Christianity if we simply believe that Jesus is the Son of God. There are far too many scriptures attaining to Christ as the Son of God. It was what he claimed to be and told Peter when he said. You are the Christ. The Son of the Living Giod
God has blessed you Son of Jonah, this was not revealed to you by man but by my Father in Heaven.
The tone of many replies here shows what is the driving force behind them. I will follow your Christian example and also withdraw from this discussion
God Bless for the example yoiu show by the Holy Spirit within you
Vw i may remind you that it is not me who is self righteous, my righteousness is in Christ, who is God Himself, not the Father, but none the less God.
I have plenty of compassion and I definatly know you are a compassionate guy. However, there is a big danger of letting emotions take over from Truth. I personally will not stand by and let people rubbish our God with heresy, did not the Apostle Paul say ''' Righteouss Judgment''?
Lies are lies, heresy is heresy, when someone is esposing heresy, that always has been heresy, then we need to correct this, we have a duty to correct this view, especially from professing Christians.
Blessings
Phil