Covenant of Hebrews 8

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
Of course the NT is in effect.

"Fullness of the Gentiles" is not a physical number/quantity, rather it relates to Paul's ministry to the Gentiles. The "fullness" was completed during his ministry (which was proclaimed ) to the Gentiles as he stated in Colossians 1:23.

G4138 pleroma play'-ro-mah

from G4137;

repletion or completion.

KJV - fullness

(Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.)

(Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.)
Um no

The fullness of the gentiles refers to the gentile kingdoms which the OT prophets said would come to an end, by the return of Christ.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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#22
Its future, Paul prety much says the same thing in Rom 11, When he fortells that Isreal is blinded in part. But there will come a day when he will come, and all Isreal will be saved.
How can all Israel be saved when Paul clearly stated that was not the case?

(Rom 9:6 It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel)

You have Paul contradicting himself.

Paul is only speaking of ALL the remnant being saved.

Paul quotes Isaiah in this regard:

(Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out on behalf of Israel, "Though the number of the children of Israel are as the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved,

(Isa 10:21-22 remnant will come back, a remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God. For though your people, Israel, are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a remnant will come back. Destruction has been decreed; just punishment is about to engulf you)

Paul said this salvation of Israel would be cut short and finished not delayed 2000 years:

(Rom 9:28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.”
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23
How can all Israel be saved when Paul clearly stated that was not the case?
Paul said it was future. He also called them BLINDED in part. UNTIL the fullness of the gentile came to fruition.

So romans 9 does not help. For that is a different context.. But I am sure that is where you will go.

(Rom 9:6 It is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all those who are descended from Israel are truly Israel)

You have Paul contradicting himself.

Paul is only speaking of ALL the remnant being saved.

Paul quotes Isaiah in this regard:

(Rom 9:27 And Isaiah cries out on behalf of Israel, "Though the number of the children of Israel are as the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved,

(Isa 10:21-22 remnant will come back, a remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God. For though your people, Israel, are as numerous as the sand on the seashore, only a remnant will come back. Destruction has been decreed; just punishment is about to engulf you)

Paul said this salvation of Israel would be cut short and finished not delayed 2000 years:

(Rom 9:28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.”
That was to easy,

Rom 9 is pauls answring a question, Did God make a mistake chosing Isreal. And the answer is no. All the things he gave proved that point, It is about eternal life. And who it is given to.

Rom 11 is ok, what now. Is God done with Isreal (national)? . The answer is no, For there will be a time when ALL isreal will repent, and be saved.


In vs 9, Isreal equals all people who are saved. Vs in romans 11, where isreal is blinded in part. There is believing Isreal (saved) and non believing Israel (unsaved) vs believing gentile. (Ie, Jew and gentile are not the same in chapter 11. So context CAN NOT be the same

Once again, studying to find Context would be your helper.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#24
testament
https://www.bing.com/search?q=testa...170C4AD9B5CC00F7BFA86471&FORM=QBRE&sp=1&ghc=1
tes·ta·ment NOUN (in biblical use) a covenant or dispensation. a division of the Bible. See also Old Testament, New Testament.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/testament
Definition of testament
a capitalized : either of two main divisions of the Bible
b archaic : a covenant between God and the human race

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Testament
* For TESTAMENT see COVENANT

KJV Dictionary Definition: testament TEST'AMENT, n. L..
The name of each general division of the canonical books of the sacred Scriptures; as the Old Testament; the New Testament. The name is equivalent to covenant, and in our use of it, we apply it to the books which contain the old and new dispensations; that of Moses, and that of Jesus Christ.

Mat 6:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood:

this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(NOTE: not of the letter <<< Old Covenant. we have been made able ministers of the new testament)

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
(NOTE : Old covenant had an animal sacrificial system)

Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
(NOTE: ark of his testament)

Ex 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Ex 26:33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

Ex 26:34 And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy place.

Ex 30:6 And thou shalt put it before the vail that is by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that is over the testimony, where I will meet with thee.

Ex 30:26 And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,

Ex 31:7 The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,

Ex 39:35 The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,

Ex 40:3 And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.

Ex 40:5 And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.

Ex 40:21 And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Jos 4:16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan.

Covenant or testament = binding contracts. Scripturally speaking, I see covenant & testament to be interchangeable. That's not to say, every contextual use of these two words is interchangeable. My Opinion Only!
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#25
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Do you think this covenant is in the future. Has it already arrived?
The New Testament was given to the Jews, which Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews, for salvation is of the nation of Israel.

And the covenant spread to the Gentiles, which when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Notice they become part of the commonwealth of Israel, which means God has not abandoned His people in favor of the Gentiles, for Israel is the Church.

And in the New Jerusalem the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem, because it is all about Israel.

Which God has not cast off His people that He once foreknew.

And God said, I am the LORD, I change not, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.

And God said if the stars, and the moon, and the sun, the ordinances of heaven are still in effect, then His covenant with Israel still stands, and they will not cease to be a nation.

So God is with the Jews, and for the Jews the same as He has ever been, for they can be saved spiritually like everybody else, and they are still His people.

But Israel lost the kingdom because of their rejecting Jesus, but this is only temporary for God will bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah in the future, and restore the kingdom to the Jews like He always does when they go astray.

If Israel did go astray God said if the Jews cry out to Him in the truth, even in the latter days, which is now, He will hear and work with them like He did when they were right before God.

For God gave Israel a blessing, and a curse, for if they obeyed God in the truth a blessing, and no enemy could prosper against her, even if the whole world were against Israel.

But a curse if they did not obey God in the truth that He would cause her enemies to go against her, and scatter her in to the nations.

But God always restores Israel, and will do it again.

And God was not hasty in causing the curse to come upon Israel, but He was patient, and gave them many years to turn to Him in the truth, which is why He sent the prophets to preach to Israel.

God will turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah in the future.

The New Testament is given to the Jews, and many Jews accepted it, which many Jews accepted the truth when Jesus was on earth, and there are Jews that accept the truth today, for God said He always has a remnant that follow Him even when Israel for the most part has gone astray.

But God is not going to abandon Israel because some Jews do not accept, like He would not abandon giving the Gentiles salvation because some do not accept.

But Israel as a nation has to come to the truth for the plan of God to continue, and that is getting the saints to the New Jerusalem where they will dwell forever, and Israel as a nation coming to the truth is part of the plan heading to the New Jerusalem.

The New Testament is given to the Jews, and is a new covenant, the New Testament, but God is also speaking that the Jews, the nation of Israel, will be in the truth in the future, and be His people again.

God is going to restore the kingdom on earth back to the nation of Israel, the Jews, for He never gave up on them, and never will.

The disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to them at that time, and He said the Father will do it in the future, but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.

God said He is going to make a full end of all Gentile nations, but not make a full end of Israel, but they will not be altogether wholly unpunished.

God said that He is going to bring the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes back to Israel, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and when the Jews have borne their shame for their sins, and iniquities against Him, that He will restore the kingdom on earth to them, and they will know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.

Which means Israel will be in the truth from that time forward, and always be with God in the truth nothing wavering, so this is a future event.

And the heathen shall know that God was always on Israel's side, but He hid His face from them, which means He did not work with the nation of Israel as much as He could for their disobedience, but He still had His hand on them so they were not consumed, for they are still His people.

Continued,
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#26
Continued,

Daniel 9 says that Israel has 70 weeks determined upon them, to make an end of sins, and bring in everlasting righteousness, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which the time for the 70 weeks, or 490 years started before Jesus came, for the Jews were not in the truth when Jesus came, for if they were the Roman Empire would of never been able to control them, and have power over them.

69 weeks have passed, but the 70th week has not passed, for if it did Israel as a nation would be in the truth.

God gave the nation of Israel 70 years to come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, which they did not, so God allowed the Roman Empire to overthrow Jerusalem, and scatter the Jews in to the nations.

Israel became a nation again in 1948, but they were not in the truth, and they are not in the truth today as a nation, so the 70th week could of not passed, because at the end of 70 weeks Israel as a nation must be in the truth.

The 70th week is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom in Revelation 13, and when they do then He can end this sin business on earth, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The Bible says that Israel is blinded in part, for they acknowledge the Old Testament, but for the majority not the New, until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved.

The New Testament was given to the Jews, but not come in to completion for them until the nation of Israel is in the truth with God according to that covenant.

For when God gave Israel the Old Testament the nation was in the truth, and will be in the truth as a nation concerning the New Testament in the future.

God will bring all the Jews back to Israel, all 12 tribes, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, which started with Israel becoming a nation again in 1948.

Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

And God working with Israel, which the Bible says as birds flying the LORD shall defend Israel, and passing over it He shall preserve it, which Israeli fighter pilots, like birds flying, paved the way to win the 6 day war, and take control of Jerusalem, the LORD being on their side.

The man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land to deceive them that he is their God, and Messiah, but God means it for good.

The Jews will rebuild their temple, and go back to animal sacrifices, for they are blinded in part, with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.

The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth.

The 70th week, 7 years period will begin.

For three and one half years repentance, and salvation is still available to the world.

At the end of that time the New Age Christ will step in to the Jews temple, and tell them to stop animal sacrifices, and he is their God, and Messiah.

He will address the world that he harnessed the power of nature, and obtained power, evolved to be greater, and spiritual, and will share this power with all people that follow him, and they will evolve to be greater, and spiritual by the power of nature.

Which God warns us of the new age movement, and their false interpretation of the Bible, 1 Timothy 4:1-5, 2 Timothy 4:2-4, that interpret all religions the same according to the occult, and evolution, and that people can still evolve.

When the people who do not love God takes the mark of the beast, then repentance, and salvation, is no longer available to them, which has to do with technology, a GPS tracking system for humans, microchip linked to satellite, as a means to cut down on crime, for if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene, and can find lost children, with all information about them on the chip that will come up on computer with a picture of them.

The fulness of the Gentiles have come in.

God will turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and the beast shall make war with all people who oppose him, the Christians, and the saints shall be gathered unto Christ, which Paul said the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God.

Which the fallen away first is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which is the time they will not endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts, the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, power through nature to be greater, and spiritual, provided by the New Age Christ.
At the end of the last three and one half years Israel as a nation is in the truth, and the 70th week is fulfilled.

God will go against the world leading up to the battle of Armageddon when the world will attack Jerusalem, the Jews, in which God said His fury shall come up in His face, which Jesus will come back with all the saints, and the world takes over half of Jerusalem, the Arabs side, as they run over them to get to the Jews, and then Jesus stops them, and defeats the world, and saves Israel, and the kingdom on earth shall be restored to Israel.

For all Israel shall be saved.

The New Testament is given to the Jews, but it is not in completion concerning Israel as a nation coming to the truth, so that is future when at that time they shall be the people of God again.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#27
JEREMIAH 16 [14] Therefore, BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [15] But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Behold, the days come! Has verse 15 come to pass? Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope

JEREMIAH 23 [5] BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. [6] In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. [7] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [8] But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope. Not yet

JEREMIAH 33 [14] BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. [15] In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. [16] IN THOSE DAYS SHALL JUDAH BE SAVED, AND JERUSALEM SHALL DWELL SAFELY: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Behold, the days come! Is Jerusalem dwelling safely? Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope

JEREMIAH 31 [31] BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: [33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34] AND THEY SHALL TEACH NO MORE EVERY MAN HIS NEIGHBOUR, AND EVERY MAN HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM UNTO THE GREATEST of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Nope

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Behold the days come! AFTER THOSE DAYS.....! Why do the many believe this scripture has been fulfilled? If “behold the days come” has not yet arrived, surely “after those days” has not yet arrived.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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#28
So when does the covenant found in Hebrews 8 come to pass?

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:

and will be their God, and they shall be my people {when does this happen}

ZECHARIAH 8 [7] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; [8] And I WILL BRING THEM, AND THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, in truth and in righteousness.

they shall be my people, and i will be their God {when His people are gathered to Jerusalem}. Itll be done in the twinkling of an eye

JEREMIAH 24 [6] For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I WILL BRING THEM AGAIN TO THIS LAND: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up. [7] And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

they shall be my people, and i will be their God {and again}

JEREMIAH 32 [37] Behold, I WILL GATHER THEM OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I WILL BRING THEM again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely: [38] And THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD: [39] And I WILL GIVE THEM ONE HEART, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: [40] And I will make an EVERLASTING COVENANT with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. [41] Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I WILL PLANT THEM IN THIS LAND assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.

they shall be my people, and i will be their God {and again...after the gathering to Jerusalem}. Pretty simple. At the gathering of Gods people to Israel, God will then write His laws on our heart {Jer.31v33} and then we shall be His people and He will be our God.

EZEKIEL 11 [17] Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I WILL EVEN GATHER YOU FROM THE PEOPLE, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAND OF ISRAEL. [18] And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. [19] And I WILL GIVE THEM ONE HEART, and I will put a NEW SPIRIT within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD.

I will gather you {in the twinkling of an eye} and bring you to Israel and give you a new heart and then they shall be my people and I will be their God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#29
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Do you think this covenant is in the future. Has it already arrived?
The covenant of grace once sided ." I Will, I Will,...……. they shall be and he said it is the good news . He did the required work . Something the letter of the law could not do . It kills . The spirit of grace it heals