created in 6 days question

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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#61
Jul 28, 2012
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#61
sltaylor said:
Well I know it was talking about Jesus! But Jesus came to set us free from sin by the truth. And he said God's word is truth, which means the very wisdom or Proverbs 8. We are saying the same thing in different ways I just realized that. The word is what gives man life he doesn't live on bread alone. And the word IS THE WISDOM OF GOD. And that word, and Gods wisdom from his word did become flesh, and it still shines to this day. The light set us free from darkness and that IS what Proverbs 8 is about too.
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Yes, whatever proceeds from the mouth of God is wisdom but the Word in John 1 is not wisdom, it is Jesus. I will be happy to discuss John with you later. Let us stay with one thing at a time.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#62
Jul 28, 2012
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#62
I really would like for you consider this from my earlier post and address this.

Look at the illogic of the argument. Your are saying that this has to mean that wisdom was the first thing created in the formation of the natural world and that the light of Gen 1:3 is synonymous with wisdom. If this is true then it cannot possibly be regarded as the first work because it was preceded by the creation of the earth. If this represents the beginning of the work of God then the earth, not wisdom is the first work.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#63
#63
oldhermit said:
Do you think the existence of angels preceded the creation of the universe? Do you think eternity or all of the things that represent the eternal realm preceded the creation of our world?
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I know for a fact the angels preceeded the creation of the earth, indeed in God's stinging rebuke of Job he asked Job where he was when he marked off its dimensions and the Angels were there! :
"On what were its footings set,*or who laid its cornerstone--*
while the morning stars*sang together*and all the angels*shouted for joy?*

As far as where they were I have no clue sir. It wasn't the universe as we know it. The universe as we know it wasn't even formed on day one. I know the waters above the sky are the 3rd and highest heaven, it's hard for me to know more than that. From bottom to top, you have the earth, (the waters below the sky), you have the universe aka the expanse of the sky, and you have the highest heavens, (the waters above the sky). As to where in the world they were before the separation of all those on day two, God only knows. I assume it couldn't be seen, since Paul says what was formed, was from what couldn't be seen. So it has to be some kind of spiritual existense, or realm. Other than that, that's my best guess. I have a hard enough time just looking up at the sky at night and trying to understand just what's on the other side. I know scriptures say the waters above are. That's just a big expanse I know I will never cross....lol fly with that huh
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#64
#64
oldhermit said:
I really would like for you consider this from my earlier post and address this.

Look at the illogic of the argument. Your are saying that this has to mean that wisdom was the first thing created in the formation of the natural world and that the light of Gen 1:3 is synonymous with wisdom. If this is true then it cannot possibly be regarded as the first work because it was preceded by the creation of the earth. If this represents the beginning of the work of God then the earth, not wisdom is the first work.
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You misunderstand the waters sir. There was no separation between the heavens and earth until day two sir, the earth was without FORM! When he did mark off its Foundation and set it's footings in place, the angels were there.
 
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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#65
Jul 28, 2012
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#65
sltaylor said:
I know for a fact the angels preceeded the creation of the earth, indeed in God's stinging rebuke of Job he asked Job where he was when he marked off its dimensions and the Angels were there! :
"On what were its footings set,*or who laid its cornerstone--*
while the morning stars*sang together*and all the angels*shouted for joy?*
As far as where they were I have no clue sir. It wasn't the universe as we know it. The universe as we know it wasn't even formed as day one. I know the waters above the sky are the 3rd and highest heaven, it's hard for me to know more than that. From bottom to top, you have the earth, (the waters below the sky), you have the universe aka the expanse of the sky, and you have the highest heavens, (the waters above the sky). As to where in the world they were before the separation of all those on day two, God only knows. I assume it couldn't be seen, since Paul says what was formed, was from what couldn't be seen. So it has to be some kind of spiritual existense, or rwalm. Other than that, that's my best guess.
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Okay, now look at you argument about the formation of wisdom and the universe. If angels preexisted the creation of the universe and wisdom is represented as God's first work then can you not see that wisdom preceded the creation of angels before anything was created in the material world? The light of Gen 1:3 therefore cannot possibly be a metaphor for wisdom.
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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#66
Jul 28, 2012
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#66
sltaylor said:
You misunderstand the waters sir. There was no separation between the heavens and earth until day two sir, the earth was without FORM!
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That has nothing to do with it. The earth was created in deluge. It was covered with water at its creation. And you are still ignoring the logical discontinuity of your argument..
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#67
#67
So we're the heavens.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#69
#69
oldhermit said:
Okay, now look at you argument about the formation of wisdom and the universe. If angels preexisted the creation of the universe and wisdom is represented as God's first work then can you not see that wisdom preceded the creation of angels before anything was created in the material world? The light of Gen 1:3 therefore cannot possibly be a metaphor for wisdom.
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Where does it ever say God created the angels? When he said let us make man, who was he talking to?
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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#70
Jul 28, 2012
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#70
sltaylor said:
Where does it ever say God created the angels? When he said let us make man, who was he talking to?
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"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#71
#71
sltaylor said:
oldhermit said:
Where does it ever say God created the angels? When he said let us make man, who was he talking to?
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I know it's deep, but this is also mentioned in Jeremiah, and that prophecy is profoundly imortant:
JEREMIAH 4:23*I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty;*and at the heavens, and their light*was gone.*

24*I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking;*all the hills were swaying.*

25*I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.*

26*I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;*all its towns lay in ruins*before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
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sltaylor

Guest
#72
#72
oldhermit said:
"For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16
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Very good answer, and whose image were the Angels created in?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#73
Jul 28, 2012
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#73
sltaylor said:
I know it's deep, but this is also mentioned in Jeremiah, and that prophecy is profoundly imortant:
JEREMIAH 4:23*I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty;*and at the heavens, and their light*was gone.*

24*I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking;*all the hills were swaying.*

25*I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.*

26*I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;*all its towns lay in ruins*before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
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This is something else entirely that has nothing to do with our discussion. If you cannot grasp the simple concepts of the creation account you are certainly not ready for me to explain this to you.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#74
#74
Have you discovered the beginning then, since you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#76
#76
No its simple, Paul says as we have borne the Likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#77
Jul 28, 2012
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#77
sltaylor said:
No its simple, Paul says as we have borne the Likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
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That has absolutely nothing to do with angels or our discussion. All you are doing now is chasing rabbits.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#78
Nov 24, 2012
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#78
sltaylor said:
sltaylor said:
I know it's deep, but this is also mentioned in Jeremiah, and that prophecy is profoundly imortant:
JEREMIAH 4:23*I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty;*and at the heavens, and their light*was gone.*

24*I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking;*all the hills were swaying.*

25*I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.*

26*I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;*all its towns lay in ruins*before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
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Simply look at the context and you'll have to agree with something similar to MacArthur...

Jer 4:31 Jer. 4:23 without form. Jeremiah may be borrowing the language, but the description in its context is not of creation in Gen. 1:2, but of judgment on the land of Israel and its cities (Jer. 4:20). The invader left it desolate of the previous form and void of inhabitants due to slaying and flight (v. 25). The heavens gave no light, possibly due to smoke from fires that were destroying cities (vv. 7 20).
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sltaylor

Guest
#79
#79
Look I will show you. In the first Chapter of revelation John describes the image of the one giving him the testimony to the Churches. To understand our transformation all we have to do is look at this example. The image of the heavenly Christ is here, his face shine like the sun in all its brillliance. Rev 10 he saw another angel coming down. His face shone like the sun in all it brilliance. This very image John describes in Chapter one of revelation, is The angel of the Lord, indeed in Rev 22 Jesus said "I have sent my angel to give you the testimony of the churches", this very one said " I am the First and the last". Jesus declared they didn't know the scriptures or the power of God, and as Isaiah says:They will soar on wings like eagles.
And it has everything to do with it, you just don't see it.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#80
#80
crossnote said:
sltaylor said:
Simply look at the context and you'll have to agree with something similar to MacArthur...

Jer 4:31 Jer. 4:23 without form. Jeremiah may be borrowing the language, but the description in its context is not of creation in Gen. 1:2, but of judgment on the land of Israel and its cities (Jer. 4:20). The invader left it desolate of the previous form and void of inhabitants due to slaying and flight (v. 25). The heavens gave no light, possibly due to smoke from fires that were destroying cities (vv. 7 20).
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Actually this is describing things before his fierce anger....v.26
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