Creflo Dollar's Jet

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S

Sirk

Guest
#41

yeah I know people who do this..
I found it strange back then that my grandad was a Christian his whole life but in the end his focus was on money. Now I understand the verse...where your treasure is..there your heart will be also. Thinking about that, it's obvious that your heart follows what you put importance on...not the other way around.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
I found it strange back then that my grandad was a Christian his whole life but in the end his focus was on money. Now I understand the verse...where your treasure is..there your heart will be also. Thinking about that, it's obvious that your heart follows what you put importance on...not the other way around.
it goes with anything, even Gods people has areas they place their heart on, these are areas of struggle hopefully they are aware of so they can confess them to brothers or sisters who can help them. otherwise they can have a lifetime of struggle. and miss out on so much God wants to give them.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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#43
Since this thread is about Creflo Dollar's Jet, let us talk about that.

I see a lot of defense of this man, and it is constantly cited that these WoF televangelists do not take donations, and use their own money for their homes, etc. which they earn from the sales of their books and merchandise (Also fleecing the faithful, but let's not go there for a moment.)

The fact is, Dollar was begging for funds and donations for his jet.

Minister Creflo Dollar asks for $60 million for a jet - CNN.com

I realize he travels around the world, but the gospel he spreads is the Health and Wealth, not the gospel of Jesus Christ, died and resurrected.

As far as theology, besides the fact that he preaches a false gospel, he also denies the divinity of Christ. That makes him worse than a false teacher, but a true heretic, in every sense of orthodox Christianity.

[video=youtube_share;0vkeVhQo7MY]http://youtu.be/0vkeVhQo7MY[/video]

Luke 6:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

[SUP]37 [/SUP] Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:



It is a large lie that Creflo preaches a false gospel. Such claims are making for me CCHat a hard place to visit and be blessed. 600 people died listening to lies like that from Jim Jones. Satan is the accuser, and has many ears eagerly listening. He would love to bring Creflo Dollar down likehe did Job, but that won't happen.

We record the World Changers weekly TV service along with other favorite ministries so we can watch them after church or while on the road. I've never heard Creflo begging or pressuring anyone on TV. I don't trust YouTube, seeing many sermons by all major preachers are altered to suit a critic's intent. There's a lot of statements shown out of context.

At the Atlanta meetings we find a typical church setting with all the usual events. There comes a offering time, and all the current projects and opportunities to join in are presented very professionally, no begging or pressuring. Visitors are encouraged to tithe to their home church, please, then gladly give an offering there of any amount. Got financial problems? Stay a while and get help. Maybe you need enough gas in the car to get home. Need help getting your ex to keep child support payments coming? They can link you up with help. Hang around at close of service to meet the biggest, friendliest crowd in America. You might want to move to Atlanta to join them. They are happy, prosperous, and love to give to those that need. It's their extreme delight to know millions of dollars are going out to ministries around the world.

Our local church can't do much like they can, just not having that big spark plug catching us on fire like Creflo does.

Creflo preaches and teaches pure New Testament gospel in its entirety. His books present gospel truth too. Nothing is left out, leaving nothing unknown about Jesus that can be known.

From the comments on the 11 Christian sites I look at, the complainers obviously don't know the man and ministry they condemn. I think the main reason few condemn Billy Graham, with a net worth of 25 million, having solicited offerings every service, is people are more familiar with his ministry and just love the man.

Try reading up some basic facts about Creflo at http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx

My Bible indicates that judging the man is sin, and can bring upon a condemner the same condemnation we utter. I've watched once fine, dedicated Christians rumble into ruined health and broken finances following bitterness against ministers. Even if you don't speak your mind against them, somehow the devil just finds out, and you get judged. We're supposed to pray for them, love even our enemies.

I've only been to the Atlanta church of about 6,000 members, so can't testify about the dozens of satellite churches World Changers has in the US. We want to visit the Dallas congregation this summer. I do know each of them expect Creflo to come by. Like Billy Graham, Creflo has a ministry team that goes with him, along with lots of equipment for places where a good sound system is needed. None of that is practical when traveling daily on commercial flights that are not available when the team and equipment must be moved hours after a meeting to the next one. Lots of destinations don't have direct flights. Whenever we fly we have frequent temporary delays in luggage getting to us.

What you probably don't know is WChangers is shooting for 500 churches world-wide, and it's happening. The plane will get them wherever they are supposed to go, and when, a lot cheaper and more efficiently.

Critics of ministers that are actually building churches world-wide are tools of the Devil, who hates the idea of spreading the gospel that much. His folks would love to see the average church be like the following. The homeless guy wakes up from his night on the park bench to find his congregation of equally poor folks sitting on the grass waiting for him to move. He folds his newspaper bedding up, goes behind a tree a moment, returns to hold up his plywood sign "Jesus is Love". He then preaches the profound blessings of being poor for Jesus. He is deeply grateful for $1.25 in donation in the paper cup. Well, he'll have to wait another service to afford a Junior beef melt meal.

A full time minister deserves, according to the Holy Spirit, to live off the gospel he ministers. Without a committment, typically a pledge to tithe, how is that fellow I described going to sign a lease for a little apartment, pay a deposit, make the monthly rent, have a bed, pay utilities and eat? If all he can count on is random giving, no budget, how does he survive while the church members have what they need? Many he ministers to are probably wealthy, but they've been taught not to tithe, so won't consider a regular salary. To provide a salary requires commitment from people. Without that, the congregation won't attract a pastor, unless that pastor is employed elsewhere.

Paul was obviously wealthy, a tent-maker by trade. He insisted on paying his own way, even becoming a ranch hand when staying with a host. In Rome he had a rent house where he stayed with a guard, meeting leaders daily, writing epistles. He was a frequent visitor to Caesar's palace, popular among the servants and family there, making them Christians.

It is that Paul that wrote to the Corinthian Christians who were poor, living where the citizens were plugged into an economy built around the pagan temple of Dianna, pagans favored for jobs. Paul appealed for an offering from them to take relief to other Christians suffering persecution. From his teachings I doubt he told widows not to give, as that act done properly qualifies them for direct blessing from the Lord, which they need. God's economy also provides for the blessed congregation to afford maintaining all their widows, orphans, and needy.

Poor congregations that are not generous and committed to support those the Lord sends their way will remain poor and of little use to anyone, even themselves.

Blessed churches are the ones carrying out Jesus' directives to establish the gospel around the world.

There is no blessing for critics of the lively churches that have discovered the many blessings of the Lord. You won't hear about the dead churches, their pastor having to sell used cars all week, available a few hours on Sunday morning. The churches doing the right thing are prospering and able to do great things locally and abroad.

It's as simple as that. Folks, don't curse yourself with your own tongue. If you hate the prosperity part of God's promises, God will kindly let you try to enjoy your poverty, lack, and misery. He won't force his prosperity on anyone not expectant of his promises. Americans tend to reject the good, while congregations around the world living in the middle of deplorable economic situations are rising out of poverty by the multiplied millions through faith in God's promises. They have the money to send missionaries to America, and are themselves reaching the rest of the world.

Whether you got this far in this post or not, I believe all here who castigate ministers who are greatly blessed by God will have to be accountable to God for that. That could simply mean losing long held jobs, careers vanishing, costs sky-rocketing. God is not responsible for what's happening in America. Unbelief is the cause. When God is ignored, people lose vision, then perish simply because he is no longer welcome in our midst.
 
May 18, 2015
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#44
So, World_Swordsman, it looks to me like you're defending Creflo. You have the right to do so. If you like him, fine. Most here don't. Fine.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
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#45
So, World_Swordsman, it looks to me like you're defending Creflo. You have the right to do so. If you like him, fine. Most here don't. Fine.
I like him as well.

But I don't watch him, religiously... Just every once in a while I see him on tv. He has never said anything about the deity of Christ while I watched. But I don't consider it that big of a deal for a preacher to be wrong sometimes.

I have never listened to a preacher that I thought was 100% right all the time.

Every physical church I have been to the preacher has taught something that is different than what the bible teaches or different from my own experience.

So I would think if you put the big magnifying glass on any preacher you are liable to find blemishes.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#46

Luke 6:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

[SUP]37 [/SUP] Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:



It is a large lie that Creflo preaches a false gospel. Such claims are making for me CCHat a hard place to visit and be blessed. 600 people died listening to lies like that from Jim Jones. Satan is the accuser, and has many ears eagerly listening. He would love to bring Creflo Dollar down likehe did Job, but that won't happen.

We record the World Changers weekly TV service along with other favorite ministries so we can watch them after church or while on the road. I've never heard Creflo begging or pressuring anyone on TV. I don't trust YouTube, seeing many sermons by all major preachers are altered to suit a critic's intent. There's a lot of statements shown out of context.

At the Atlanta meetings we find a typical church setting with all the usual events. There comes a offering time, and all the current projects and opportunities to join in are presented very professionally, no begging or pressuring. Visitors are encouraged to tithe to their home church, please, then gladly give an offering there of any amount. Got financial problems? Stay a while and get help. Maybe you need enough gas in the car to get home. Need help getting your ex to keep child support payments coming? They can link you up with help. Hang around at close of service to meet the biggest, friendliest crowd in America. You might want to move to Atlanta to join them. They are happy, prosperous, and love to give to those that need. It's their extreme delight to know millions of dollars are going out to ministries around the world.

Our local church can't do much like they can, just not having that big spark plug catching us on fire like Creflo does.

Creflo preaches and teaches pure New Testament gospel in its entirety. His books present gospel truth too. Nothing is left out, leaving nothing unknown about Jesus that can be known.

From the comments on the 11 Christian sites I look at, the complainers obviously don't know the man and ministry they condemn. I think the main reason few condemn Billy Graham, with a net worth of 25 million, having solicited offerings every service, is people are more familiar with his ministry and just love the man.

Try reading up some basic facts about Creflo at http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx

My Bible indicates that judging the man is sin, and can bring upon a condemner the same condemnation we utter. I've watched once fine, dedicated Christians rumble into ruined health and broken finances following bitterness against ministers. Even if you don't speak your mind against them, somehow the devil just finds out, and you get judged. We're supposed to pray for them, love even our enemies.

I've only been to the Atlanta church of about 6,000 members, so can't testify about the dozens of satellite churches World Changers has in the US. We want to visit the Dallas congregation this summer. I do know each of them expect Creflo to come by. Like Billy Graham, Creflo has a ministry team that goes with him, along with lots of equipment for places where a good sound system is needed. None of that is practical when traveling daily on commercial flights that are not available when the team and equipment must be moved hours after a meeting to the next one. Lots of destinations don't have direct flights. Whenever we fly we have frequent temporary delays in luggage getting to us.

What you probably don't know is WChangers is shooting for 500 churches world-wide, and it's happening. The plane will get them wherever they are supposed to go, and when, a lot cheaper and more efficiently.

Critics of ministers that are actually building churches world-wide are tools of the Devil, who hates the idea of spreading the gospel that much. His folks would love to see the average church be like the following. The homeless guy wakes up from his night on the park bench to find his congregation of equally poor folks sitting on the grass waiting for him to move. He folds his newspaper bedding up, goes behind a tree a moment, returns to hold up his plywood sign "Jesus is Love". He then preaches the profound blessings of being poor for Jesus. He is deeply grateful for $1.25 in donation in the paper cup. Well, he'll have to wait another service to afford a Junior beef melt meal.

A full time minister deserves, according to the Holy Spirit, to live off the gospel he ministers. Without a committment, typically a pledge to tithe, how is that fellow I described going to sign a lease for a little apartment, pay a deposit, make the monthly rent, have a bed, pay utilities and eat? If all he can count on is random giving, no budget, how does he survive while the church members have what they need? Many he ministers to are probably wealthy, but they've been taught not to tithe, so won't consider a regular salary. To provide a salary requires commitment from people. Without that, the congregation won't attract a pastor, unless that pastor is employed elsewhere.

Paul was obviously wealthy, a tent-maker by trade. He insisted on paying his own way, even becoming a ranch hand when staying with a host. In Rome he had a rent house where he stayed with a guard, meeting leaders daily, writing epistles. He was a frequent visitor to Caesar's palace, popular among the servants and family there, making them Christians.

It is that Paul that wrote to the Corinthian Christians who were poor, living where the citizens were plugged into an economy built around the pagan temple of Dianna, pagans favored for jobs. Paul appealed for an offering from them to take relief to other Christians suffering persecution. From his teachings I doubt he told widows not to give, as that act done properly qualifies them for direct blessing from the Lord, which they need. God's economy also provides for the blessed congregation to afford maintaining all their widows, orphans, and needy.

Poor congregations that are not generous and committed to support those the Lord sends their way will remain poor and of little use to anyone, even themselves.

Blessed churches are the ones carrying out Jesus' directives to establish the gospel around the world.

There is no blessing for critics of the lively churches that have discovered the many blessings of the Lord. You won't hear about the dead churches, their pastor having to sell used cars all week, available a few hours on Sunday morning. The churches doing the right thing are prospering and able to do great things locally and abroad.

It's as simple as that. Folks, don't curse yourself with your own tongue. If you hate the prosperity part of God's promises, God will kindly let you try to enjoy your poverty, lack, and misery. He won't force his prosperity on anyone not expectant of his promises. Americans tend to reject the good, while congregations around the world living in the middle of deplorable economic situations are rising out of poverty by the multiplied millions through faith in God's promises. They have the money to send missionaries to America, and are themselves reaching the rest of the world.

Whether you got this far in this post or not, I believe all here who castigate ministers who are greatly blessed by God will have to be accountable to God for that. That could simply mean losing long held jobs, careers vanishing, costs sky-rocketing. God is not responsible for what's happening in America. Unbelief is the cause. When God is ignored, people lose vision, then perish simply because he is no longer welcome in our midst.
Billy Graham never made a six minute Youtube video to ask for money for a G650 jet.

[video=youtube;UIobdRNLNek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIobdRNLNek[/video]

THAT IS a false gospel, unless you can pinpoint in the Bible where God asks us to beg for a $65,000,000 jet.

That IS ignoring God.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#47
so false teachers should not be exposed? I think Jesus and Paul did this alot.. did they not tell us to follow them?
The false teachers Jesus rebuked and confronted were the very same ones that said he did his mighty works by the power of the devil.

The false teachers Jesus rebuked and confronted were the very same ones that said his disciples were unlearned and ignorant men.

The false teachers Jesus rebuked and confronted were the very same ones that said that Jesus could have God because they had Moses.

There is nothing new under the sun.............
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#48

He's just another huckster. Religion is the ultimate con. It's legal, even tax free, in the main, a perfect setup for con men and women. Con artists, who are clever, skilled and deceptive carnal people, with no fear of God, would be out of their minds to engage in illegal cons, if they could swing doing legal, protected religion, under the big top. Avoid accounting fraud, and it's the "high life" in the name of Jesus. In the end, they're just career infomercials, the denouement to get their fingers in peoples' pockets. I pity anybody without the eyes to see this, as there are a lot of them. You'd think as many as have been busted would make things clearer to people, but there's a sucker born every minute. And they are a diverse collection of circus acts. The love of money is the root of all evil, and one day there are those who are going to be doing a "Lord! Lord!" chorus, who'd better enjoy it now.

Matthew 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
When I was in the Military there was saying I think is quite right for all this noise.

Who watches the watchers?

IOW, We see only the charismatic denominations getting attacked by outfits like CARM and others. My statement is who watches CARM and all those that judge under righteous judgement?

This is no defense of Creflo, he will give account as we all will.

Normally those who discredit and smear others the loudest, have the most to lose if they ever were to be exposed.
Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker are living proof of this statement.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#49
I like him as well.

But I don't watch him, religiously... Just every once in a while I see him on tv. He has never said anything about the deity of Christ while I watched. But I don't consider it that big of a deal for a preacher to be wrong sometimes.
So denial of the deity of Jesus Christ, from eternity, the Word of God of the Old Testament, is a blemish? Oops, I denied the Lord and said the rest of Christendom has Him wrong? Are Jehovah's Witnesses a blemish? I'd put forth the proposition it was, "Oops! I don't really have a Holy Spirit understanding of Christ." Also, all cults try to develop their own special doctrines that people can only get from them. Could it be a Creflo Dollar product exclusive maybe, no other church has? Does anybody here believe God has special little creatures, who are the only ones who got the faith right, in the first place?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#50
Billy Graham never made a six minute Youtube video to ask for money for a G650 jet.

THAT IS a false gospel, unless you can pinpoint in the Bible where God asks us to beg for a $65,000,000 jet.

That IS ignoring God.
Or ignoring, oblivious of the New Testament church, Paul making tents, not one instance of using the faith to enrich any person with luxury. It's modern mega church false doctrines that don't exist in the scripture faith, wanton consumption of the flesh, and there are those who don't even have eyes to see the carnality and obscenity of it, right in front of them.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#51
So denial of the deity of Jesus Christ, from eternity, the Word of God of the Old Testament, is a blemish? Oops, I denied the Lord and said the rest of Christendom has Him wrong? Are Jehovah's Witnesses a blemish? I'd put forth the proposition it was, "Oops! I don't really have a Holy Spirit understanding of Christ." Also, all cults try to develop their own special doctrines that people can only get from them. Could it be a Creflo Dollar product exclusive maybe, no other church has? Does anybody here believe God has special little creatures, who are the only ones who got the faith right, in the first place?
It just goes to show a person that they need to study for themselves to be approved.

Not everyone has the understanding that the Lord Jesus is God. Not everyone has the understanding that the way of Christianity is abiding in Christ and not their works at the law.

People tend to surround themselves with the teachers that they think are correct in their teachings. Upon further study combined with prayer, you might find that the very teachers you listen to may not teach 100% correctly. Perhaps they lean on their own understanding in certain teachings.

If there was a teacher/preacher that is blessed of God and getting it mostly right, you would expect that one to be attacked from all kinds of angles.

Asking for a 65 million dollar jet is ridiculous in the eyes of the world. But Creflo knows something they don't. Creflo knows it is God that Gives and God that takes away. If God thinks Creflo should have a jet I would rest assured that He is getting that jet. Along with a better understanding of who the Lord Jesus Christ is... lol
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#52
It just goes to show a person that they need to study for themselves to be approved.

Not everyone has the understanding that the Lord Jesus is God. Not everyone has the understanding that the way of Christianity is abiding in Christ and not their works at the law.

Most especially the case of those not really born of the Holy Spirit. In that case, you'd be better off putting a corpse in the pulpit and running J. Vernon Magee sermons through a speaker. Would be a lot cheaper, much lower maintenance.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#53
So we shouldn't say anything, as Christians, if there is evil going on in the church, keep our mouths shut, quietly and timidly pray the abuses will end, and we are to have no judgement in these matters? When people are made merchandise of and lies are taught, we're not to judge? Could you support that with scripture, please?
Acts 5.17-39
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#54
If so, then a lot of scripture would have to be removed going to pointing out and rebuking lies, nipping it in the bud, if necessary even ejecting people from the congregation, etc. The "judge not" straw man, which actually has to do with unrighteous judgement, is a ruse used to try and stifle dissent against evil. The Bible never says we are to have no judgement. You'd think, the way some people talk, we're not to even be discerning good and evil. The devil would like that! (And all his sock puppets, scamming and perverting truth.)

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Would there be some statement here about financing liars and con artists? If a "minister" is a wolf in sheep's clothing, is financing them good, or evil? Who are you serving, when you're looking to "enjoying everyday life" and many fold returns, the Lord, or yourself, His spiritual kingdom, or your carnal consumption?


2 John 1:7-11 says:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. [SUP]9 [/SUP][SUP][a][/SUP]Anyone who [SUP][b][/SUP]goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Since you are using verses 10-11 to stand on your attack on Creflo Dollar. You need to also include verses 7-9 with 10-11, just not the ones you think back you up.

If we use verses 7-11 in context and then test what you are stating against Creflo, it is YOU that are in error and not him.

I have heard Creflo state unequivocally that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is the son of God. Therfore you need to either to be quiet or come up with a better verse to back up your attack of another man of God.

Using 2 John 2.10-11 or 7-11 should be used to test if someone states Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh and has nothing to do with testing to see if Creflo is a false teacher or con artist.

This is a perfect example of correctly dividing the word of God, testing the spirits of another and judging with righteous judgement.

You need to stop parroting doctrine and learn the Word and application for yourself.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#56
That complaint reminds me of too many people I've heard curse rich Christians while defending George Soros, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other liberal radicals who are getting rich off the poor, and strong-arming corporations by threatening racial troubles if not obeying them. Why must Christians never be wealthy? There's no commandment prohibiting that, though one particular rich young man caught Jesus' attention. A rich man supplied his tomb. Should Jesus have refused to arise from that one, leaving it for use by a wicked man instead?

For the record, most mega church preachers like Dollar have been investigated sufficiently. Dollar and others don't take a dime of salary from churches. They sell media materials they authored, which are wildly popular. From what I've read most donate a huge part of their sales. it's apparent to me they are being blessed by God just like the Lord taught them it should be.

Would you have condemned Abraham for his wealth in his day, or worse today? It was enormous, and so was that of Job. If not, why not? Abraham was a friend of God. Are you? Is there some jealousy or covetousness at hand among those condemning people blessed by God?

Some folks here hate the idea of tithing to support ministry. They like the idea of tipping a church a few bucks once in a while, calling that a freewill offering that pleases God. But when a call goes out for an offering of any amount, they are offended, yet obviously are tuning in as free-loaders worried some poor widow will not be blessed for giving a dollar. How else shall anyone know of needs of ministries, but that ministers ask for offerings?

if anyone gives an offering according to the terms of 2 Cor 9, then they will be blessed to the extent of 2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.


Else the scriptures are a lie, and we all just stay home without hope. Not me! Dollar and thousands who actually apply his teachings are living proof. Dollar and the others similar to WOF are teaching it the way the Bible says it. Poor men preach poverty is a blessing, so the poor hold onto every dime they can, and remain servants to dimes, unable to give a dollar to any good cause. The numbers prove that, counting up the poor and powerless.

Giving apart from the terms of proper giving is a useless activity, devoid of blessing.

Hate tithing? Hate biblical offerings? Hate people who are giving away millions a year to other people? What else is hated here?


I dont know enough about Dollar to speak about him. All I can say is this,he does not need a jet to do ministry for the Lord. Trust me on this.I traveled for 20yrs in a motor home. I wasnt easy,it wasnt comfortable most times.I sweat in the summer,froze in the winter but I did manage to share the gospel just the same.Yes, Job among others were rich in the Bible but I doubt they were of the name it claim it crowd. Dollar and others are on TBN all the time begging for money. Vow me a thousand "dollars" and God will bless you!! Run to the phone in the next 5mins and you'll get that new car you wanted!!! People are calling in,people are calling....Give me a break.If they are making money off their books why are they still begging for money? They are shysters,thats why,robbing Gods people.Jan Crouchs makeup alone must cost a thousand dollars a week plus her wigs.

When we traveled we asked for either a love offering or whatever a church could afford. And this really irks me,several churches said "Are you in it for the money?" Now I didnt run the group but my answer would have been "Sir do you watch TBN? Any one in your church give to TBN? enough said. Hey Im all for "a workman is worthy of his hire" but robbing Gods people when you own 6 cars and 4 homes and an air conditioned dog house? I recall Jesus dealt quite nicely with those type of folk and he'd do the same today!
 
Mar 10, 2015
1,174
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#57

Luke 6:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

[SUP]37 [/SUP] Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:



It is a large lie that Creflo preaches a false gospel. Such claims are making for me CCHat a hard place to visit and be blessed. 600 people died listening to lies like that from Jim Jones. Satan is the accuser, and has many ears eagerly listening. He would love to bring Creflo Dollar down likehe did Job, but that won't happen.

We record the World Changers weekly TV service along with other favorite ministries so we can watch them after church or while on the road. I've never heard Creflo begging or pressuring anyone on TV. I don't trust YouTube, seeing many sermons by all major preachers are altered to suit a critic's intent. There's a lot of statements shown out of context.

At the Atlanta meetings we find a typical church setting with all the usual events. There comes a offering time, and all the current projects and opportunities to join in are presented very professionally, no begging or pressuring. Visitors are encouraged to tithe to their home church, please, then gladly give an offering there of any amount. Got financial problems? Stay a while and get help. Maybe you need enough gas in the car to get home. Need help getting your ex to keep child support payments coming? They can link you up with help. Hang around at close of service to meet the biggest, friendliest crowd in America. You might want to move to Atlanta to join them. They are happy, prosperous, and love to give to those that need. It's their extreme delight to know millions of dollars are going out to ministries around the world.

Our local church can't do much like they can, just not having that big spark plug catching us on fire like Creflo does.

Creflo preaches and teaches pure New Testament gospel in its entirety. His books present gospel truth too. Nothing is left out, leaving nothing unknown about Jesus that can be known.

From the comments on the 11 Christian sites I look at, the complainers obviously don't know the man and ministry they condemn. I think the main reason few condemn Billy Graham, with a net worth of 25 million, having solicited offerings every service, is people are more familiar with his ministry and just love the man.

Try reading up some basic facts about Creflo at http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx

My Bible indicates that judging the man is sin, and can bring upon a condemner the same condemnation we utter. I've watched once fine, dedicated Christians rumble into ruined health and broken finances following bitterness against ministers. Even if you don't speak your mind against them, somehow the devil just finds out, and you get judged. We're supposed to pray for them, love even our enemies.

I've only been to the Atlanta church of about 6,000 members, so can't testify about the dozens of satellite churches World Changers has in the US. We want to visit the Dallas congregation this summer. I do know each of them expect Creflo to come by. Like Billy Graham, Creflo has a ministry team that goes with him, along with lots of equipment for places where a good sound system is needed. None of that is practical when traveling daily on commercial flights that are not available when the team and equipment must be moved hours after a meeting to the next one. Lots of destinations don't have direct flights. Whenever we fly we have frequent temporary delays in luggage getting to us.

What you probably don't know is WChangers is shooting for 500 churches world-wide, and it's happening. The plane will get them wherever they are supposed to go, and when, a lot cheaper and more efficiently.

Critics of ministers that are actually building churches world-wide are tools of the Devil, who hates the idea of spreading the gospel that much. His folks would love to see the average church be like the following. The homeless guy wakes up from his night on the park bench to find his congregation of equally poor folks sitting on the grass waiting for him to move. He folds his newspaper bedding up, goes behind a tree a moment, returns to hold up his plywood sign "Jesus is Love". He then preaches the profound blessings of being poor for Jesus. He is deeply grateful for $1.25 in donation in the paper cup. Well, he'll have to wait another service to afford a Junior beef melt meal.

A full time minister deserves, according to the Holy Spirit, to live off the gospel he ministers. Without a committment, typically a pledge to tithe, how is that fellow I described going to sign a lease for a little apartment, pay a deposit, make the monthly rent, have a bed, pay utilities and eat? If all he can count on is random giving, no budget, how does he survive while the church members have what they need? Many he ministers to are probably wealthy, but they've been taught not to tithe, so won't consider a regular salary. To provide a salary requires commitment from people. Without that, the congregation won't attract a pastor, unless that pastor is employed elsewhere.

Paul was obviously wealthy, a tent-maker by trade. He insisted on paying his own way, even becoming a ranch hand when staying with a host. In Rome he had a rent house where he stayed with a guard, meeting leaders daily, writing epistles. He was a frequent visitor to Caesar's palace, popular among the servants and family there, making them Christians.

It is that Paul that wrote to the Corinthian Christians who were poor, living where the citizens were plugged into an economy built around the pagan temple of Dianna, pagans favored for jobs. Paul appealed for an offering from them to take relief to other Christians suffering persecution. From his teachings I doubt he told widows not to give, as that act done properly qualifies them for direct blessing from the Lord, which they need. God's economy also provides for the blessed congregation to afford maintaining all their widows, orphans, and needy.

Poor congregations that are not generous and committed to support those the Lord sends their way will remain poor and of little use to anyone, even themselves.

Blessed churches are the ones carrying out Jesus' directives to establish the gospel around the world.

There is no blessing for critics of the lively churches that have discovered the many blessings of the Lord. You won't hear about the dead churches, their pastor having to sell used cars all week, available a few hours on Sunday morning. The churches doing the right thing are prospering and able to do great things locally and abroad.

It's as simple as that. Folks, don't curse yourself with your own tongue. If you hate the prosperity part of God's promises, God will kindly let you try to enjoy your poverty, lack, and misery. He won't force his prosperity on anyone not expectant of his promises. Americans tend to reject the good, while congregations around the world living in the middle of deplorable economic situations are rising out of poverty by the multiplied millions through faith in God's promises. They have the money to send missionaries to America, and are themselves reaching the rest of the world.

Whether you got this far in this post or not, I believe all here who castigate ministers who are greatly blessed by God will have to be accountable to God for that. That could simply mean losing long held jobs, careers vanishing, costs sky-rocketing. God is not responsible for what's happening in America. Unbelief is the cause. When God is ignored, people lose vision, then perish simply because he is no longer welcome in our midst.
At the very least, you should disclose you are in the WOF movement and that is your litmus for your opinions.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#58
I need my house fixed. We're only talking $25,000 but let's call that seed money. Hey! I'll give you actual seeds hyacinth bean runners. Pretty flowers followed by pretty seed pods. Deal?
​Im running to the telephone right now! I just need to pull these dang gold eye teeth out first...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#59

Most especially the case of those not really born of the Holy Spirit. In that case, you'd be better off putting a corpse in the pulpit and running J. Vernon Magee sermons through a speaker. Would be a lot cheaper, much lower maintenance.
You are correct.

But those who are born of the Holy Spirit will get something from Gods Word even if it is not the special twist from the pulpit of the corpse...

That is why Gods Own People can be in all sorts of different denominations. In spite of a denominations teachings sometimes, a person can be born again of the Holy Spirit by their own studying of scripture and prayer.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#60
Creflo Dollar sermons from his website - See if you recognise Jesus and his ethics and ideals here - I do not


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Poverty is not the will of God for any Believer. However, there are Christians who have taken a "vow of poverty" because they believe that poverty is a part of being holy and righteous.


You were made wealthy and rich before you came into existence. You've been predestined to prosper financially.


You have every right to possess material wealth—clothes, jewelry, houses, cars and money—in abundance. It is that wealth that not only meets your needs, but also spreads the Gospel message and meets the needs of others.


Because I am the righteousness of God, angels have been sent to minister to me. They respond to the Word of God which I speak. Therefore, I loose angels with the words of my mouth.


I say today, let the Lord be magnified who takes pleasure in my prosperity. In the name of Jesus, I command the angels to bring to me prosperity in my spirit, in my home, in my body, in my family life, and in my finances.


I declare promotion and command the angels to bring promotion into my life. I have a blood-bought covenant promise from God Almighty to multiply exceedingly.
*****************

Now when do we ever, I mean ever, command angels over anything? Show me one verse in scripture where this happens.

Angels are sent by God to bring a message to people about what to do in the will of the Lord, not to exercise the will of mortal man in aquiring wealth. This is pure selfish greed in its most blatent form and teaching "christians" to do likewise.

It is insane, apart from anything.