Crossing the Red Sea

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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#21
Dec 18, 2013
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Willie-T said:
Oh, c'mon on. Even I know that... you pedal it.
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Lol, I know it sounds out there and it humored me when I came across it also. For real though, all attempts by modern science to conclusively prove how a bicycle works and remains stable have failed thus far.

(The bicycle conundrum is found on page 6)
7 Simple Questions with No Answers | Open Science Questions

It is rather humorous, but also a good example of how modern science has more questions than it has answers.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

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#22
Feb 7, 2015
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oldhermit said:
Very true. What I am looking for is how you would answer the argument of the naturalist who argues that this can be explained by the application of physics. Look us some of their arguments on this and you will see what I mean. They are attempting to explain a non-natural event by appealing to natural process. This never works but it is not enough to simply say this was a miracle and leave it at that.
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I think a good question to ask when some of the "History Channel" explanations are proposed, is to ask where else their particular application has ever occurred. The consistent answer seems to be, "Well, it hasn't, but it COULD."
 
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GodIsSalvation

Banned
#23
Dec 18, 2013
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#23
oldhermit said:
Very true. What I am looking for is how you would answer the argument of the naturalist who argues that this can be explained by the application of physics. Look us some of their arguments on this and you will see what I mean. They are attempting to explain a non-natural event by appealing to natural process. This never works but it is not enough to simply say this was a miracle and leave it at that.
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Aye indeed, they try this with just about everything in the Bible it seems. Lol, me thinks they should just stick to trying to figure out the bicycle first.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#24
Jul 28, 2012
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#24
psychomom said:
since my knowledge of physics begins and ends at 'fall down; go boom'... :rolleyes:

is it too dumb to suggest God created the physics that govern the universe,
and He can do as He wishes with it? including contravene the 'laws' of physics?

sun standing still, dead people raised...
our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. :)
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Absolutely. This is why I used the word contravention here. One of the most compelling truths we find throughout scripture is the fact that "natural laws" are non-determinate.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#25
Mar 11, 2014
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oldhermit said:
We are discussing the application of physics in this event, not debating the number of people involved. The actual number is rather irrelevant. Perhaps we could discuss this on another thread.
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well, the way that a huge number of people could physically cross, or that a smaller number could cross, would be different, imo...
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#26
Mar 22, 2015
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#26
oldhermit said:
Can the presence of this wind explain the parting of the water from the standpoint of physics?
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Actually I think it can. I understand that similar events have taken place through history some of which were observed. The real miracle was the timing.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#27
Jul 28, 2012
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#27
valiant said:
At the time of the Exodus the Reed Sea extended much further west and it is most probable that the crossing took place somewhere near what are now the Bitter Lakes where the waters would have been shallower.
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There is no way you can prove this. This is nothing more that wild conjecture.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#28
Jul 28, 2012
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#28
valiant said:
Actually I think it can. I understand that similar events have taken place through history some of which were observed. The real miracle was the timing.
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Name some of them and explain how it worked in those situations.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#29
Feb 7, 2015
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#29
Dan_473 said:
well, the way that a huge number of people could physically cross, or that a smaller number could cross, would be different, imo...
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Is there any real significance between 160,000 people, and 3 million, in terms of a crossing like this? All it seems to indicate is that there might need to be a wider dry area.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#30
#30
oldhermit said:
Absolutely. This is why I used the word contravention here. One of the most compelling truths we find throughout scripture is the fact that "natural laws" are non-determinate.
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wait...did you mean "absolutely it's too dumb" ??

sigh. nice to have my daily quota filled so early. ;)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
valiant said:
Actually I think it can. I understand that similar events have taken place through history some of which were observed. The real miracle was the timing.
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that would not make sense. For wind just pushes water off the lnd which is right below it. it would not produce two walls of water on either side.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#32
Jul 28, 2012
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#32
psychomom said:
wait...did you mean "absolutely it's too dumb" ??

sigh. nice to have my daily quota filled so early. ;)
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LOLOL... No mom. That is not what I meant. (but only because I didn't think of it.)
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#33
Mar 22, 2015
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#33
Dan_473 said:
well, the way that a huge number of people could physically cross, or that a smaller number could cross, would be different, imo...
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they don't want to hear FACTUAL arguments Dan, they prefer to exaggerate
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#34
Mar 11, 2014
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#34
Willie-T said:
Is there any real significance between 160,000 people, and 3 million, in terms of a crossing like this? All it seems to indicate is that there might need to be a wider dry area.
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I can't remember the lower number, but let's say 18,000... compared to 3,000,000, the larger number would need a much wider space to cross in the same amount of time...
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#35
Mar 4, 2013
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oldhermit said:
Can the presence of this wind explain the parting of the water from the standpoint of physics?
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Whatever wind God produced had to be extraordinary. If the water ran from north to south, then I would say there might have been a type of horizontal tornado or a strong downdraft that came from the east. The wind blew all night, and had to be much greater than 100 miles per hour. That's extraordinary for sure.
 
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Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#36
Feb 7, 2015
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#36
The History Channel once aired the "wind" explanation. They brought in a bunch of gigantic fans, and aimed them at a shallow (3 feet, I think) marsh. After a considerable time of blowing, they finally got the area relatively dry. A lot of wasted time and money, but they got people to watch.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#37
Mar 22, 2015
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eternally-gratefull said:
that would not make sense. For wind just pushes water off the lnd which is right below it. it would not produce two walls of water on either side.
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there are many different kinds of winds, and if water was pushed off to make dry land there would naturally be 'walls' of water on each side. no one is suggesting that it was a normal simple wind on a flat piece of water. But in my experience God uses natural means to perform His miracles when He can. Certainly the crossing of the Jordan can be explained by natural means.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#38
Sep 4, 2013
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#38
Dan_473 said:
I can't remember the lower number, but let's say 18,000... compared to 3,000,000, the larger number would need a much wider space to cross in the same amount of time...
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Neither you or valiant are taking into consideration that just before their crossing, God provided ALL of them with a new pair of Air Jordans which greatly increased the speed of their crossing..........it's physics...........gotta know your physics
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#39
Apr 9, 2015
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#39
the Staff of Aaron turning into a Snake, and swallowing all the 'other snakes'.. prior to the Exodus, same thing Natural Science or physics or even the animal kingdom , can explain what went down.. just like the Parting of the Waters... Supernatural..
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#40
Jul 28, 2012
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#40
valiant said:
they don't want to hear FACTUAL arguments Dan, they prefer to exaggerate
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How is this for a factual argument? Exodus 14 says God uses an east wind to divide the waters. Even the use of the wind will not answer the problem of physics connected to the behavior of the water. The water is not driven away from its banks it is parted in the midst of the water. There is a wall of water on both sides of the Israelites as they pass through the waters. How does this explain two opposing walls of water being suspended by wind? No computer model can answer this problem of physics. If this is just a natural event, what magnitude of wind would it require to divide a path through a body of water a half mile wide (enough for 3 million people to pass through) for a length of approximately 8 miles long and 1,000 feet deep. Although God uses the natural elements in connection with this event, this is most certainly not a natural event. Just how much water would have to be displaced to make this possible?

The formula is [(8x5280)x(1/2x5280)x(1000)]x64, then times the 1/2 if you want. That's the length of the trench, times width, times height all in feet. Water is 64 lb. per cu. ft. Go put a pint of water (1lb) into a bowl, and see if the strongest fan you have will blow it out of the bowl. Any wind strong enough to do that, should knock over all the people too. It might be interesting to note that 6 million people weigh about 1 billion pounds, about one-three millionth of the weight of the water moved. I doubt it froze, either; it was April. I think the wind may have guided the power of God emanating from Moses' staff. (by Ken Behrens, MA) 6400 trillion pounds of water more or less. Figuring a gradual decline makes it half that.

What this tells me is that a wind of this magnitude could have blown all the water completely out of the sea bed and the people with it but it could have never divided a narrow path through the water. It also tells me that no wind of this magnitude has ever been recorded on this planet and that no such phenomenon has ever been recorded since. No human manipulation of the rules of physics can make this work. Like all miracles, this was God overturning the laws of physics to accommodate the needs of his people.
 
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