Crossing the Red Sea

[Dan_473]

again, no difficulty, no worries at all. ask a Jew who knows. i know we don't know. i know Jews (not all of them, but some) know.;

a lot of the questions on this forum and thread, a third grade brought up right in Israel can tell you truthfully.

westerners are so backwards and wrong about so much.

one more thought... would you really trust a people God frequently calls stubborn and stiff-necked to be your only bible translators?

 

[Bowhunter2394]

You know when the crossed the Red Sea, they saw His Miraculous Hand.. they witnessed the water rising. the dead bodies of the armies of Pharaoh... even upon Witnessing these events... some of them STILL WERE IN UNBELIEF, when they started wandering on the other side.. complaining and soon were so far in unbelief, they started to worship a 'calf'.... does that show you how hard and stubborn the Human heart is, even after witnessing His Saving Hand? amazing... I dont want to derail this thread.. just a thought.. if you Saw God part the Waters... would you later go into unbelief? or where you in un belief, when He delivered you... God Tests His People.. He tries them.. thru this.. they are refined.. because they learn to Trust and lean on Him.. at all times.. good and bad..

 

[oldhermit]

yes, definitely! does the text say the isaelites had carts? I don't know... I thought earlier in the thread people said it didn't say...

I don't know how much an egyptian chariot weighed... I'm thinking it would weigh more than a simple cart designed for pulling things...

we don't have to use the word mud... maybe the chariots got stuck in the moist ground...

You still cannot get around the fact that the text itself says specifically that it was dry ground, not moist ground, not muddy ground, not partially dry ground or any other way one may wish to minimalize this, but DRY GROUND.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Yep I agree... from that last Hebrew translation.. it shows it was 'dry' right up to the edge of the height of the Water..... everybody was on dry ground.. even the Egyptians. which means. God Miraculously took them off.. something the natural man could not explain, because it was Supernatural.... probably the reason the Army started to flee.. they saw His Hand in all of a sudden the wheels coming off... then they KNEW ---> THE LORD fighteth for the Israel.. indeed...

 

[atwhatcost]

I dray a conclusion concerning the carts but when Israel left Egypt the plundered the nation taking the wealth and anything of value, gold, clothing, jewelry, etc. How do you suppose they carried all of this, on their backs?

I lean towards there were carts. (I can't think how they got very old Jacob to Egypt without one.) But, if not, I've been picturing Mr. T's bling around the necks of all the Israelites and Camryn Manheim's multiple pierced ears to cover the multitude of earrings they received. lol

Now the looms would have been a tough carry. And so would the goldsmithing equipment.

 

[atwhatcost]

Although we are not told specifically in Exodus that Israel had carts when they crossed the Red Sea, we are told in Numbers 7 that they had carts or wagons and when you see the amount of gold that was used in the making of the tabernacle and its utensils there is no way they could have carried this amount of gold out of Egypt in their pockets. They plundered the treasury of Egypt.

​Oh goodie! Proof of carts. Now I can see looms and foraging tools better.

 

[atwhatcost]

well, God is most certainly involved in every aspect of the day to day with His children.
yes, i do believe it's a kind of worship to acknowledge Him in all our ways.

and Lynn? i didn't mean you.

S'alright. I didn't take it as insult, even if it was. I just could answer from one perspective.

 

[atwhatcost]

yes, definitely! does the text say the isaelites had carts? I don't know... I thought earlier in the thread people said it didn't say...

I don't know how much an egyptian chariot weighed... I'm thinking it would weigh more than a simple cart designed for pulling things...

we don't have to use the word mud... maybe the chariots got stuck in the moist ground...

It was possible, but now that we know the Israelites had wheels too, and carried goldsmithing tools big enough to make solid gold candles (the forerunner of the menorah), I think we've wiped out that one.

 

[atwhatcost]

one more thought... would you really trust a people God frequently calls stubborn and stiff-necked to be your only bible translators?

Um, why? Do you know any non-stubborn, non-stiffed-necked people? I don't. lol

 

[Simiel]

Why you guys still talking about this when it didn't happen lol. Ramesse the second did not get washed away in the red sea. His body is in the Egyptian museum and written on his tomb is how he died..

Truth does not require believers

 

[DuchessAimee]

Why you guys still talking about this when it didn't happen lol. Ramesse the second did not get washed away in the red sea. His body is in the Egyptian museum and written on his tomb is how he died..

Truth does not require believers

I say we ask the Egyptian government to prove it was Ramses the second.

 

[Simiel]

I say we ask the Egyptian government to prove it was Ramses the second.

Why ask for proof when it's there written in stone..

You have any primary sources for any of your beliefs? How about a original manuscript?

Truth does not require believers

 

[TheTrueKing]

ouch simiel looks like your banned. what a shame. You cant state facts here, they operate on belief

 

[Reborn]

. You cant state facts here, they operate on belief

Sure you can state "facts" here, man.

Believe you can do it.
Have some faith!

 

[MarcR]

I think Dan and I are both stuck on if there were carts and/or wagons. Does anyone know when Egyptian carts and/or wagons came along compared to when Moses and the gang left? I know they pinpointed when the Israelites worked, because most of the pyramids don't have hay in their bricks, but do we know when carts showed up?

We are definitely told that the Egyptians pursuing them had chariots. That means that wheels and axles were available. Even without specific mention of carts; the knowledge that wheels and axles were available makes carts a safe presumption.

 

[Tintin]

ouch simiel looks like your banned. what a shame. You cant state facts here, they operate on belief

Oh, you. You're so clever. Thankfully beliefs worth holding to can be well-reasoned. Christianity falls under such an umbrella of reasoned belief. Poor you.

 

[Galahad]

Now the looms would have been a tough carry.

Creates a most hilarious image.

 

[oldhermit]

She's very fortunate I was only a baby when she came up with her junk. I would have done what you're doing. Anthrax? Yeesh, not a water thingy. And river mud does come only in flood, but no one is crazy enough to go to the edge of a flooding river. And, first fruit? Huh? That's just dumb.

Continuing our look at the plagues the next in the series is that of the frogs. God is a good general. In the plague of blood and frogs God begins to turn their gods against them by first attacking the Egyptians water supply. He turns the Nile against them.

I. The Plague of Frogs, 1-15 - This plague begins the attack of God's great army. This is how God describes his forces of the natural world under his command (See Joel 2:25).

Although Pharaoh's magicians could duplicate the miracle of the frogs, what they could not do that Moses could was remove the frogs. Pharaoh could not command his magicians and have them remove the frogs. He is forced to appeal to Moses for this.

A. Naturalistic explanation of the frogs
Many argue that this plague of frogs was the result of the river and all the waters being turned to blood forcing the frogs to invade the land. What is wrong with this theory?

1. This would have made the plagues simultaneous. They would have happened at the same time.
2. These frogs were brought out of the Nile AFTER the plague of blood had ended. The waters had all returned to their natural states. These frogs then did not leave an unhealthy environment but a healthy one to invade the land.
3. God said HE was the causal agent. This removes the possibility for any naturalistic explanations. This plague was not contingent on any natural antecedents. It had no direct cause other that the will of God.
4. This is contrary to the natural behavior of the frogs. They ALL left the water.
5. The plague was immediate. God commanded Aaron to stretch his rod over the rivers, streams, and pools and they produced the frogs immediately and in abundance.

B. The magnitude of the plague

1. The volume of frogs was such that they not only covered all the land but invaded the homes, the kitchens and even the beds of the people. There was no place to escape the frogs.
2. The dead frogs after the plague had ended created its own extended consequences. "The frogs died out of the houses, the courts, and the fields. So they piled them in heaps, and the land became foul."

 

[Dan_473]

again, no difficulty, no worries at all. ask a Jew who knows. i know we don't know. i know Jews (not all of them, but some) know.;

a lot of the questions on this forum and thread, a third grade brought up right in Israel can tell you truthfully.

westerners are so backwards and wrong about so much.

here's an example of something an educated Jewish person doesn't know about ancient hebrew... from the inscription for psalm 46, the word ‘alamot from the Complete Jewish Bible

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm 46&version=CJB

 

[Dan_473]

i like to laugh, especially at myself.

but i'm honestly perplexed...why in the world would Christians read about
something so miraculously wonderful as this history of the Sovereign God
intervening for His own, and pick it apart in the natural...

rather than bowing low in worship?

definitely, bow low...

I think it's good to scrutinize translations, though... to me, it shows engagement with the text...