Curious Questions.

[john832]

But if you 'love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind... and love your neighbor as yourself', you will choose to honour God and people by not murdering, stealing etc. It's about being obedient to Christ, out of love for Him and what He's done, not because the Law saves, it doesn't. The Law is all or nothing. You can't pick and choose which parts to follow. As Christians we no longer live under the burden of the Law.

I find it interesting that you speak such dichotomies so glibly.

If it is about being obedient to Christ and Christ is the great I AM who gave the Law...

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And He revealed Himself to Moses...

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

And then I AM or the LORD (the word means Eternal, Ever-Living, Self Existent One) then said this...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Speaking the Ten Commandments, not to Moses, but directly from Mt. Sinai to the people.

and then you tell me we are not under the Law but under Christ's Law?

As Li'l Abner used to say, "amoosin but confusin".

 

[p_rehbein]

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

cherrypicked that verse dideya?

let's read it in context...............

27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


(the law being established is the New Covenant Law...........and Paul calls this the law of faith)

 

[JesusistheChrist]

For example, apparently we don't need to follow the old Laws,
Problem is, some christians say we do (why is that?) Some say we dont (why is that?) some say Paul said after jesus came, we dont need to know more (why is that?)

Because the bible clearly says in Mathew 10:18 WE DO infact need to follow it.

Here's what Matthew 10:18 says:

"And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles." (Matthew 10:18)

Did you mean to say Matthew 5:18?

Something else?

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation 12:17

New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

 

[dcontroversal]

The law was given to establish the fact that humanity sins and is contrary to God...the law as a schoolmaster takes us by the hand and points us to Christ...The righteousness of the LAW is found in Christ and the perfect faith of Christ....Christ is the end of the LAW for those who actually believe...They are redeemed, saved, justified by the perfect faith of Christ when they believe into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus an the condemnation that is found by the law no longer hangs over their head as they have been rendered legally innocent....In Christ we have been set free from the bondage of sin and can now serve God in the newness of the spirit as opposed to the letter of the law......

There are many arguments on both sides of the isle and that stems from religion, erroneous views, ignorance of scripture, a rejection of truth etc. and as long as men are in fallen sinful bodies with a limited view there will always be some division on the truth and the doctrines found therein.....

 

[Hizikyah]

Mt5:18"I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Rev21:1-2"I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Rom3:28"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Rom3:31"Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

​

 

[aktheboss1]

Each person has his own beliefs and that is your prerogative. Could you elaborate on what you are using as evidence and I guess you are using this to prove the agnostic view which you say is solid. As I understand agnostic, it means: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

What i use as evidence is mostly the quotes in the bible said by Jesus Him Self.. For example, Jesus says in John 17:3 "The father is the only true god" Jesus says "The reason i have came was to preach the word of god and preach the kingdom of god" Jesus says "Not a dot of the law will be abolished"..

I believe jesus said everything he said for a reason, He did everything for a reason as well.
So when jesus says the father is the only true god, i feel like no christian that claims to love Jesus should say otherwise.

BUT we were all raised in saying that the father the son and spirit are god, 3 in 1. So what i preach doesnt matter because not 2 billion christians will hear me or even agree with what i say.


Just because later verses, of PEOPLE saying "And jesus is in the father and so the father in jesus".. That doesnt really mean he is God.. You know what i mean? Just because SOMEONE said it doesnt mean nothing.

After Ghandi came people took Ghandi as god.. Its normal for some people to have believed Jesus was god as well.
BUT i dont want to follow THOSE people, i want to follow what was Actually taught, then i will decide whether THOSE people were right or not.

Jesus says he came to preach the word of god and kingdom of heaven, to the black Sheep ONLY.

Christians say he came to die for our sins and came for the whole world.

----

BUT PLEASE do not respond to my beliefs because we will just be going in circle and have a never ending Thread.

If we can message on here, feel free in private.


Id love to respond to all of you but id hate to start to much confusion for my ownself honestly..

 

[aktheboss1]

So if you don't know the Law you won't sin? Ignorance of the Law IS an excuse?

No, someone said the law will cause us to sin more, i disagreed saying the law will help us sin LESS.

 

[aktheboss1]

Of course Christians should follow the law.. Little things like "Thou shall not murder" and "Thou shalt not steal" aren't rules that Christians are at liberty to ignore. And Jesus was Immanuel (God with us). He was God manifested in the flesh. He said, "Me and my Father are one" and "If ye have seen me, you've seen my Father". Consider that when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by the devil, he told him; "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God". That would seem to be a direct proclamation of who he was.

I wouldn't form my believe on the opinions of others, but establish it in the written word of God. None of the new testament writers contradicted anything that Jesus taught, their letters are confirmation of what Jesus taught.

Can't pick and choose what laws to follow, like the other fella said.

I truly believe all the young ladies today that have premarital Sex will be punished for that, and HEY!! even up to the 1900s here in america Premarital sex was wrong and girls got punished for it, people were stoned to death here in america up untill the 20s i believe, etc etc just because we dont see it Now doesnt mean all has changed. It only changed for our Time

 

[GuessWho]

Thanks, but in my situation i couldn't accept just anything . Thanks and i love you too!
I would say alot but id rather in private if we could, otherwise id rather keep my mouth shut here lol.

But also, you know everyone can come up with their own interpretations and understand any text the way they want to, in the end Jesus quotes and verses are what matter to me, not pauls, not johns.

...and you get the Jesus quotes and verses from where exactly? Not from John and even Paul?

 

[aktheboss1]

...and you get the Jesus quotes and verses from where exactly? Not from John and even Paul?

I get it from all the gospels, even pauls.

I just dont take their WORDS.

example, jesus will say the father is the only true god, somewhere along the line Paul says and the son is also God.

Which contradicts what jesus just said

 

[GuessWho]

I get it from all the gospels, even pauls.

I just dont take their WORDS.

example, jesus will say the father is the only true god, somewhere along the line Paul says and the son is also God.

Which contradicts what jesus just said

Jesus also said that He and the Father are one. So, Paul said the same thing. They are not contradictory.

 

[GuessWho]

Also, I have read many sources of scholars claiming the trinity was not apart of our religion but added on

I look at all these things.

Trinity was not added on. Maybe the scholars meant to say that the concept of trinity was developed and formulated by the Church. But it was not added on. A trinitarian understanding of God can be found in the New Testament also even if the word "trinity" itself does not appear.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

 

[aktheboss1]

Jesus also said that He and the Father are one. So, Paul said the same thing. They are not contradictory.

One in a Sense, not actual God.

For example, Mark 10:18, why do you call me good, no one is good except god alone.

Many times he denied blasphemy, and on top of that he said no one has seen god.

-
Ok, so he says "if you have seen me you have seen god" right?
Now, if he really said that in the sense he was god, he would not have said earlier " No one has seen god"

So maybe we understood the scripture wrong. maybe by saying "if you have seen me you have seen god" it means that he represents god, because when people were telling him show us this god of yours, he said, If you believe in me and the works i do then you believe in god. Because God GAve jesus all these powers, jesus couldnt have done it on his own.

God doesnt gain powers later on in life, he has them from the beginning. and god doesnt need two tries to make a blind girl see.

Plus Jesus prayed to God, so its all these facts that i add up

 

[aktheboss1]

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

Ok, notice how Johns book is the only one that speaks of the trinity..
Christian scholars admitted Johns book was the least trust worthy of all the books, including facts like.
In one verse johns book mentions jesus as Lord and in mathews book as Servant.. What gave john the right to change what was really said.. Mathew came way before john.

On top of all this, Bart Erhman says there is not a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of anything original.

I dont know about other christians but it makes me wonder, I want to follow the true Jesus, and its my duty to find out what really happened.

I do like the quranic version of jesus because it makes sense and also Confirms the bible in many ways.. But it also has alot of different things that i havent added up yet.

 

[GuessWho]

But things dont add up brother, we can't ignore things because we don't see it. Our ancestors stoned women for premarital sex, thank god we don't do it any more, but when asked why dont we do it we say because When jesus came all the laws changed.out

At least we, christians, have a point. I am glad however that the Jews also don't do it anymore (although they can not use the same reason as us, christians).

Theres just more to it.. Jesus prayed on head, like abraham, moses, and even david if i recall.

Jews and muslims do it, why dont we?

What's praying on head?

 

[aktheboss1]

At least we, christians, have a point. I am glad however that the Jews also don't do it anymore (although they can not use the same reason as us, christians).



What's praying on head?

Well you have a point, but who Made up this point?

And sorry i meant he prayed on his head, like on the ground..
Nothing important was just using different examples

 

[JesusistheChrist]

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

Cyprian quoted the Johannine Comma around the year 250 A.D.:

Ancient Christian Witness: 1st John 5:7, & Saint Cyprian

"The Lord warns, saying, "He who is not with me scattereth." He who breaks the
peace and the concord of Christ, does so in opposition to Christ; he who
gathereth elsewhere than in the Church, scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord
says, "I and the Father are one;" and again it is written of the Father, and of
the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," And these three are one."
And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in
celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the
parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold unity does not hold
God's law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life
and salvation." [1][1]

"Treatises of Cyprian" page 423 in the book "The Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 5: edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts, Sir James Donaldson & Arthur Cleveland Coxe

Where was Cyprian quoting from?

Tea leaves?

The entrails of an owl?

 

[Drett]

I friendly suggest, close this thread and start a new thread with honest intent laid out and maybe some fruitful conversation will proceed. Have to say I'm not a fan of deception.

What I have found on this site is if you do not agree with someone then the attacks on their person and integrity begins. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle.