Curious Questions.

[GuessWho]

One in a Sense, not actual God.

What means "one in a sense"? And how do you know that Jesus Christ meant to say "one in a sense"?

Jesus Christ not only said that He and the Father are one, but He also said that if you saw Him than you saw the Father.

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

For example, Mark 10:18, why do you call me good, no one is good except god alone.

Many times he denied blasphemy, and on top of that he said no one has seen god.

Are you familiar with the kenosis?
He was a lot of time accused on blasphemy and on top of that he was crucified for blasphemy. Are you familiar with the New Testament? I know you said you are because your catholic father made you read it. But really, how come you ignore important parts of it?

Ok, so he says "if you have seen me you have seen god" right?
Now, if he really said that in the sense he was god, he would not have said earlier " No one has seen god"/QUOTE]

He said no one has seen God except Him (who is sent by God).

So maybe we understood the scripture wrong. maybe by saying "if you have seen me you have seen god" it means that he represents god, because when people were telling him show us this god of yours, he said, If you believe in me and the works i do then you believe in god. Because God GAve jesus all these powers, jesus couldnt have done it on his own.

God doesnt gain powers later on in life, he has them from the beginning. and god doesnt need two tries to make a blind girl see.

Plus Jesus prayed to God, so its all these facts that i add up

. We did not misunderstood the Scripture. Don't worry. It is rather the muslims and the jews who misunderstand us and have a lot of misconceptions about us. But that's ok. We are here to discuss and help and try to explain and clarify (in the measure of our possibilities) the hard points of the christian teachings and beliefs.

People who don't understand kenosis can not understand how can we christians confess that Jesus Christ is God and then they give us clear examples when Jesus prays to God, when Jesus says that the Father is greater than He is and so on.

 

[GuessWho]

Well you have a point, but who Made up this point?

We believe Jesus Christ made this point when He said that He wants mercy, not sacrifice. When he said that whoever is without should cast the first stone. Jesus Christ is the greatest revelation that humanity has of God. And Jesus Christ asked us to forgive and to love.

 

[aktheboss1]

What means "one in a sense"? And how do you know that Jesus Christ meant to say "one in a sense"?

Jesus Christ not only said that He and the Father are one, but He also said that if you saw Him than you saw the Father.

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.



Are you familiar with the kenosis?
He was a lot of time accused on blasphemy and on top of that he was crucified for blasphemy. Are you familiar with the New Testament? I know you said you are because your catholic father made you read it. But really, how come you ignore important parts of it?

Ok, so he says "if you have seen me you have seen god" right?
Now, if he really said that in the sense he was god, he would not have said earlier " No one has seen god"/QUOTE]

He said no one has seen God except Him (who is sent by God).



. We did not misunderstood the Scripture. Don't worry. It is rather the muslims and the jews who misunderstand us and have a lot of misconceptions about us. But that's ok. We are here to discuss and help and try to explain and clarify (in the measure of our possibilities) the hard points of the christian teachings and beliefs.

People who don't understand kenosis can not understand how can we christians confess that Jesus Christ is God and then they give us clear examples when Jesus prays to God, when Jesus says that the Father is greater than He is and so on.

Thanks and ill look into those alot more!

Just alot of errors i think we have been brought upon, no wonder why we have so many different sects..
And what if its true that there is nothing original of the bibles anymore.. what then.
What if its true that gospel of baranabas was legit and everything it claims..

Im done with religion. just going to believe what i feel is right

 

[Hizikyah]

Cyprian quoted the Johannine Comma around the year 250 A.D.:

Ancient Christian Witness: 1st John 5:7, & Saint Cyprian

"The Lord warns, saying, "He who is not with me scattereth." He who breaks the
peace and the concord of Christ, does so in opposition to Christ; he who
gathereth elsewhere than in the Church, scatters the Church of Christ. The Lord
says, "I and the Father are one;" and again it is written of the Father, and of
the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," And these three are one."
And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in
celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the
parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold unity does not hold
God's law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life
and salvation." [1][1]

"Treatises of Cyprian" page 423 in the book "The Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 5: edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts, Sir James Donaldson & Arthur Cleveland Coxe

Where was Cyprian quoting from?

Tea leaves?

The entrails of an owl?

seems to be pretty hit and miss in the translations, that led me to look into it, I think it is clearly added words to support the trinity doctrine, if it was not in any of the original manuscripts then I can not think it was inspired.

1 John 5:7
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses--

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony-- the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

 

[GuessWho]

Thanks and ill look into those alot more!

With pleasure.

Just alot of errors i think we have been brought upon, no wonder why we have so many different sects..
And what if its true that there is nothing original of the bibles anymore.. what then.

What do you mean there is nothing original in the bibles anymore? You mean the original gospels?

What if its true that gospel of baranabas was legit and everything it claims..

Then you should ask yourself why is not part of the church.

Im done with religion. just going to believe what i feel is right

I hope is not Islam...

 

[royalscot]

the true god,
3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, "Cornelius."4 And he stared at him in terror and said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God.5 And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.6 He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him,8 and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.Acts 10:

cornelius is a gentile, he talking to an angel, when you read on it will come clear, why he was told to send for peter. but to the point, he already knows there is a god. (so religions,sect ect, out side the bible, christian bible). in simple terms would ask, ware did you get god from.

god has work through age to age with what we call a jewish people, others have claimed they also know a god.

so in simple terms ware and how did you get to know about this god. would answer the jewish first command
1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.Exodus 20




how do you get in contact or introduced with the true god,

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."


6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

by following the instruction given by the angel, cornelius sent for peter and found out when peter was speaking the answer to who the true god is.

 

[aktheboss1]

With pleasure.



What do you mean there is nothing original in the bibles anymore? You mean the original gospels?



Then you should ask yourself why is not part of the church.



I hope is not Islam...

I mean many things as in nothing original.. Even within recent years alot has been changed. and that should tell you enough.

John 5:7 "For there are three that testify:" in the NIV

they deleted the part that used to say "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."... Which is sad and makes people wonder.


---

And no its not islam, but it is a possibility. There is nothing wrong with islam or Judaism, we are all the same abrahamic religion.
I did infact look up why its not in the church, but again everyone has a different opinon.

Some say because it will effect the way christians view jesus today and will sadden all christians faiths.
Some say the vaticans are keeping it hidden from many christians to see it.
Some say because it is false.

Who knows.

---

 

[Hizikyah]

Just alot of errors i think we have been brought upon, no wonder why we have so many different sects..
And what if its true that there is nothing original of the bibles anymore.. what then.
What if its true that gospel of baranabas was legit and everything it claims..

gospel of baranabas; Two manuscripts are known to have existed, both dated to the late 16th century and written respectively in Italian and in Spanish. I dont think that can possibly be accurate or maore accurate than things written much earlier in Hebrew or Greek.

There is a version of Matt that is wrotten in Hebrew and has 3 places where all other texts have clear errors, it does not have error in those 3 places, so I would not lose hope bother, there is truth, we must seek it. men have gone so far from Him and look what has resulted..... since He allows free will it is a testimony that we need Him IMO

 

[aktheboss1]

the true god,
3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God come in and say to him, "Cornelius."4 And he stared at him in terror and said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God.5 And now send men to Joppa and bring one Simon who is called Peter.6 He is lodging with one Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea."7 When the angel who spoke to him had departed, he called two of his servants and a devout soldier from among those who attended him,8 and having related everything to them, he sent them to Joppa.Acts 10:

cornelius is a gentile, he talking to an angel, when you read on it will come clear, why he was told to send for peter. but to the point, he already knows there is a god. (so religions,sect ect, out side the bible, christian bible). in simple terms would ask, ware did you get god from.

god has work through age to age with what we call a jewish people, others have claimed they also know a god.

so in simple terms ware and how did you get to know about this god. would answer the jewish first command
1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.Exodus 20




how do you get in contact or introduced with the true god,

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."


6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

by following the instruction given by the angel, cornelius sent for peter and found out when peter was speaking the answer to who the true god is.

Exactly.. and by saying Jesus is god i might be going against what god said, "not to have any gods before him"

 

[Hizikyah]

Exactly.. and by saying Jesus is god i might be going against what god said, "not to have any gods before him"

Psalm 110:1, "Yahweh(#3068) said to my Ruler and King(#113): Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool."

Yahchanan 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

 

[JesusLives]

The question Should we follow the Law? was a little bit tricky for me in that- I don't believe we should follow the law, but that we should follow God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and if we follow them then it should come naturally that we would want to obey God's law or the law of faith as some call it but we would be obeying out of love.

In following Jesus and allowing the Holy Spirit to live in your life you would automatically want to obey God's law and I am talking about the 10 Commandments. However, we are un-capable to do it on our own it has to be done with indwelling of the Holy Spirit to help us.

I believe God's law is still valuable in showing us what sin is and that we accept the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross and then God no longer sees the wrongs we have committed but the perfect record of Jesus life stand and covers our lives.

Yes, I believe there is importance and that God's law still stands, but Jesus fulfilled the penalty for us on the cross. I hope this makes sense to you.

 

[GuessWho]

Why do you write with so little characters?

Anyway, if you refer to the bibles of the Jehovah's Witnesses or the "bibles" of the mormons - which are the main gross corruptions of the Bible I can think of, than you should not take those guys seriously.

The verse from 1 John 5:7 actually has those words added, and not deleted.
My question to you is the following: For christians, do you think that only the Bible is the word of God?

I'm sorry but you said you study the Quran, the Torah and the New Testament. If you study the New Testament and the early christianity than you should want to know better than "some people say".

You say "nothing wrong with islam". Is Mohamad dead or alive? What about Jesus Christ?

 

[GuessWho]

Exactly.. and by saying Jesus is god i might be going against what god said, "not to have any gods before him"

Christians don't believe that the Holy Trinity is polytheism. If you grew up in a catholic house, you should at least know that much.

It is not fair to talk about christianity going from islamic or jewish premises. I believe you less and less that you grew up a christian. Too many things that you ignore.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

For example, apparently we don't need to follow the old Laws,
Problem is, some christians say we do (why is that?) Some say we dont (why is that?) some say Paul said after jesus came, we dont need to know more (why is that?)

I really don't want to jump into this conversation, but here goes...

After 26 years of engaging in or observing conversations on this topic, it seems more than apparent to me that a lot of people selectively read their Bibles. IOW, when faced with passages of scripture which fly directly in the face of their currently held beliefs, they regularly either ignore the same or seek to somehow cancel out the same by offering another verse of scripture which they feel contradicts the scripture which opposes their own view. For example, we read:

Ephesians chapter 6

[1] Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
[2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise):
[3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Here, while writing to "the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 1:1), Paul cited one of the original 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:12, Deuteronomy 5:16) as New Testament doctrine. In fact, Paul regularly cited Old Testament teachings as "proof texts" for New Testament doctrine as did the other apostles and I could easily rattle off a list of the same just off the top of my head if necessary. Paul even reproved himself according to the Old Testament law when he said:

Acts chapter 23

[1] And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
[2] And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
[3] Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?
[4] And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?
[5] Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Where is this "written"? Well, "it is written" here:

"Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people." (Exodus 22:28)

If "the law" was done away in the manner in which many people here and elsewhere believe, then I'd like somebody to step forward and rationally explain these two examples...and I could easily offer many, many more.

Anyhow, I couldn't vote in your poll because the question was too vague. IOW, there are aspects of "the law" which are no longer in effect and other aspects of "the law" which are still in effect.

Let's begin the countdown to somebody irrationally labeling me as a "legalist"...

5...4...3...2...

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Hey, that was post #666 for me.

It's a sign...lol.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hey, that was post #666 for me.

It's a sign...lol.

or an evil omen.. :/ lol jk

 

[GuessWho]

gospel of baranabas; Two manuscripts are known to have existed, both dated to the late 16th century and written respectively in Italian and in Spanish. I dont think that can possibly be accurate or maore accurate than things written much earlier in Hebrew or Greek.

) It should be obvious for everyone but it's not.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Jesus says he came to preach the word of god and kingdom of heaven, to the black Sheep ONLY.

Christians say he came to die for our sins and came for the whole world.

When you say "to the black sheep ONLY" are you actually referring to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

 

[damombomb]

What i use as evidence is mostly the quotes in the bible said by Jesus Him Self.. For example, Jesus says in John 17:3 "The father is the only true god" Jesus says "The reason i have came was to preach the word of god and preach the kingdom of god" Jesus says "Not a dot of the law will be abolished"..

I believe jesus said everything he said for a reason, He did everything for a reason as well.
So when jesus says the father is the only true god, i feel like no christian that claims to love Jesus should say otherwise.

BUT we were all raised in saying that the father the son and spirit are god, 3 in 1. So what i preach doesnt matter because not 2 billion christians will hear me or even agree with what i say.


Just because later verses, of PEOPLE saying "And jesus is in the father and so the father in jesus".. That doesnt really mean he is God.. You know what i mean? Just because SOMEONE said it doesnt mean nothing.

After Ghandi came people took Ghandi as god.. Its normal for some people to have believed Jesus was god as well.
BUT i dont want to follow THOSE people, i want to follow what was Actually taught, then i will decide whether THOSE people were right or not.

Jesus says he came to preach the word of god and kingdom of heaven, to the black Sheep ONLY.

Christians say he came to die for our sins and came for the whole world.

----

BUT PLEASE do not respond to my beliefs because we will just be going in circle and have a never ending Thread.

If we can message on here, feel free in private.


Id love to respond to all of you but id hate to start to much confusion for my ownself honestly..

Matt15:24
But he answered and said to them, “I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel.”

…27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.Gal3:28

144,000
Rev 7:4
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,…

Then

The innumerable multitude
Rev 7

[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Paul was called to minister to the gentiles
Acts 19

15But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."…

Acts 13
[h=3]46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.[/h]

 

[aktheboss1]

Psalm 110:1, "Yahweh(#3068) said to my Ruler and King(#113): Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool."

Yahchanan 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Ok thank you Hizikyah, but i honestly your only believe jesus is god because you want to..

Put your faith aside for a second and read what is actually said..

Sit at my right hand.. Does that make him god? No. to take someone besides god as god is gods worst sin. You dont remember in the OT when it was said god is a jealous god?

Ok, he is going to God, and over 1000 times the bible said god is ONE, even jesus said the father is the only true god. So how does jesus going to to the father mean that He is god? It only means what is being said, he was going to god lol..