Cut off her hand...

[preacher4truth]

It is foolish to be a modern day Thomas Jefferson concerning Scripture. All this is for the most part is pride, foolish pride. We have some guys who are just so very intelligent, distinguished intellectuals (they wish to appear this way) who determine something in Scripture cannot be just, right, loving, sound, follow their ideology or logic, so they dismiss the passage(s).

These are not nearly as intellectual, nor do they possess biblical acumen as they attempt to display. 1 Corinthians 3:18. None of these are near the level (are any here?) of say an R C Sproul who would not dare to even think about doing this with any Scripture, holding it as sacred, above our intellect and criticizing judgment. There was no Romans 9:20 man in this man of God, yet there is in too many today.

Man judging God, his ways and his word, yet claiming to accept the parts they like such as the "going to heaven" part especially.

Frankly, what is this called? Foolishness. No offense intended, but that is exactly what it is. We should humble ourselves under God's revelation, even the parts we don't understand in our finite minds and study it out, set aside our criticizing, accept it, understand that we are not judges of God, but servants and we really don't know much at all.

 

[preacher4truth]

Also, the Old Testament IS NOT preserved in a good condition. So, how can you even believe that you can trust it fully?

Yes, we get it, you're too smart to accept Scripture. It's inaccurate. To you. You're smarter, yada yada yada.

Enough of your nonsense, you're not nearly as smart as you think you are. Put an end to your attack on Scripture.

 

[Scrobulous]

Regardless, we should never question the word of God. Just because we can not grasp every verse in the bible, it does not mean we are to brush it aside by saying, "Well, that verse, or passage of verses, are not inspired". We do not have that authority, my friend.

I fully understand what you mean, but there is a danger in your approach too. If you are afraid to question and really test the scripture intellectually, you do not get the insights you might otherwise get. You should question the bible, turn it inside out until you fully understand it. Don’t accept it blindly because you are afraid to question it! God likes a challenge! Ask him stuff. His spirit will tell you. Although God criticises the human intellect when it challenges the gospel, it certainly does not mean that you should not use your intellect to understand the bible. That’s what reason is for. Reason in the service of God is ok.
Now you will say that’s fine, but don’t say any verse is uninspired or does not express the perfect will of God. Ok. But Jesus did this! I am not Jesus, of course, so I have to be very careful. I very rarely find a verse that trips me up like Deut 25:11-12. But when I find such a verse, I don’t rest till I am comfortable with it. I put it on the forum and listen to the saints. I pray and ask God and in the end I find peace.

 

[Scrobulous]

Church was canonizing books, not every verse in them or every word in them. Also, the Old Testament IS NOT preserved in a good condition. So, how can you even believe that you can trust it fully? What do you even mean by that?

I thought the bible was preserved in good condition. The jews have been exceedingly zealous in preserving it to the letter. They had a whole class of men dedicated to this, the scribes. They are the guardians of the OT a job they take very seriously. I was told there were more fragments of the NT by far than any other contemporary text. BUT all my knowledge about this is second hand. Certainly there may be problems with archaic words and issues with translation, but this is nothing like the OT being unreliable or not in good condition.
As for cannonisation, the issue here has not been deciding which books are authoritative, but which books to keep out, so its easier to get a bigger bible but virtually impossible to get a smaller one.

 

[trofimus]

I thought the bible was preserved in good condition. The jews have been exceedingly zealous in preserving it to the letter. They had a whole class of men dedicated to this, the scribes. They are the guardians of the OT a job they take very seriously. I was told there were more fragments of the NT by far than any other contemporary text. BUT all my knowledge about this is second hand. Certainly there may be problems with archaic words and issues with translation, but this is nothing like the OT being unreliable or not in good condition.
As for cannonisation, the issue here has not been deciding which books are authoritative, but which books to keep out, so its easier to get a bigger bible but virtually impossible to get a smaller one.

This myth about Jews being careful re zealous in preserving Scriptures to the letter is strangely widely accepted by Christians. Without evidence.

When we compare Scriptures of the Old Testament preserved by Christians, it differs significantly from the textual line kept by Jews. You can see for example my thread there: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/septuagint-vs-masoretic-text-about-christ.180587/

Jews selected their Scriptures and the text of it in the first century, after the Old Law was set aside by Christ. And they had very antichristian bias. And they had no authority to decide which Scriptures are Christian or not, which textual line etc.

 

[trofimus]

The church was a group of ppl who, as a whole, did this. Not some guys in today's world who are taking it upon themselves to decide what to accept and what to chuck out the window.

This "whole" is composed of individuals and of their opinions.

BTW, they never voted for or knew your Bible you have in hands today. They would not find books they used, in your Bible and the text of books they know would differ from theirs.

Masoretic text and Jewish canon was never canonized by the church.

 

[presidente]

God is just.

One problem in our society is that it sunk so low as to think it is funny to see someone hit or kick a man in the private parts. I was shocked to see a KFC commercial showing a kid do this on TV. There are movies where women do that to men. Maybe the audience is supposed to think it is funny.

This passage is a good one to read to little girls as they are growing up. And other kids too. This type of behavior in a fight is displeasing to God and the hand removal penalty should give us an idea of how bad. There is also the issue of a married woman touching a man there.

God is not unjust. The behavior is really, really bad and we are desensitized to it.

Children should also hear or read the passages about executing nonvirgins married off as virgins. Again this is just evil behavior and it is not the law that is unjust. The problem os with modern standards of morality.

 

[presidente]

If the bull gores people then stoning may be the only safe way to kill it. They didn't have guns back then and getting close with a spear may just enrage it.

As for the above verse....the woman is grabbing the other guys private parts, I find that disturbing.

Jesus didn't let people to stone an adultress to death, I doubt he would condone having a woman's hand cut off.

There was no man brought to Him and in the end there were no accusers to condemn her.

 

[Scrobulous]

This myth about Jews being careful re zealous in preserving Scriptures to the letter is strangely widely accepted by Christians. Without evidence.

When we compare Scriptures of the Old Testament preserved by Christians, it differs significantly from the textual line kept by Jews. You can see for example my thread there: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/septuagint-vs-masoretic-text-about-christ.180587/

Jews selected their Scriptures and the text of it in the first century, after the Old Law was set aside by Christ. And they had very antichristian bias. And they had no authority to decide which Scriptures are Christian or not, which textual line etc.

The jews were preserving the OT for their own sakes, not for christians, so their bias would be irrelevant. Why would they cease their sacred mission to preserve their own scriptures? It doesn't make sense. The jews revere their writings even today.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

If you can't believe in the integrity of the Bible you have nothing.
If God inspired it to be written, he also preserved it.
So either it is the inspired word of God or it is rubbish.
If it is rubbish we are a bunch of bloody idiots.
If it is the inspired word of God then we have his directive and teaching and are his children

 

[preacher4truth]

If you can't believe in the integrity of the Bible you have nothing.
If God inspired it to be written, he also preserved it.
So either it is the inspired word of God or it is rubbish.
If it is rubbish we are a bunch of bloody idiots.
If it is the inspired word of God then we have his directive and teaching and are his children

That's it right there my brother.

 

[p_rehbein]

So, not having read all the comments, I am still wondering"

Does she STILL HAVE both hands?

 

[trofimus]

The jews were preserving the OT for their own sakes, not for christians, so their bias would be irrelevant. Why would they cease their sacred mission to preserve their own scriptures? It doesn't make sense. The jews revere their writings even today.

They killed their own Christ. They hated Christians and murdered them as much as they could.

Do you really trust them that they selected the right textual line after Christianity spread out? Their bias is not irrelevant, because when you hate Christ and have two manuscripts, one has a prophecy about Christ and one is corrupted and seems not to say anything, you will choose the second one.

Early Christian writers documented such practice between Jews. You can read for example Justin the Martyr and his letters to Trypho. Also, masoretes themselves admitted that they started with corrupted manuscripts, not corresponding to originals, so what else do you need to believe that

“But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the [Septuagint] translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying”
(~150 A.D., Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXI)

 

[p_rehbein]

here are a few extra if anyone needs one

 

[Scrobulous]

They killed their own Christ. They hated Christians and murdered them as much as they could.

Do you really trust them that they selected the right textual line after Christianity spread out? Their bias is not irrelevant, because when you hate Christ and have two manuscripts, one has a prophecy about Christ and one is corrupted and seems not to say anything, you will choose the second one.

Early Christian writers documented such practice between Jews. You can read for example Justin the Martyr and his letters to Trypho. Also, masoretes themselves admitted that they started with corrupted manuscripts, not corresponding to originals, so what else do you need to believe that

“But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the [Septuagint] translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying”
(~150 A.D., Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXI)

Thanks! Just ordered the selected writings of Justin Martyr.

 

[Scrobulous]

here are a few extra if anyone needs one

Tee hee hee!!!

 

[PennEd]

They killed their own Christ. They hated Christians and murdered them as much as they could.

Do you really trust them that they selected the right textual line after Christianity spread out? Their bias is not irrelevant, because when you hate Christ and have two manuscripts, one has a prophecy about Christ and one is corrupted and seems not to say anything, you will choose the second one.

Early Christian writers documented such practice between Jews. You can read for example Justin the Martyr and his letters to Trypho. Also, masoretes themselves admitted that they started with corrupted manuscripts, not corresponding to originals, so what else do you need to believe that

“But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the [Septuagint] translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying”
(~150 A.D., Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Chapter LXXI)

Kinda shocked by this post!
Ya know who "killed" Jesus? YOU Did!! And I did!. And every sinner that ever lives. Nobody took Jesus' life. He gave it freely for all of us. These posts are starting to take on an anti-semetic feel.

 

[p_rehbein]

Kinda shocked by this post!
Ya know who "killed" Jesus? YOU Did!! And I did!. And every sinner that ever lives. Nobody took Jesus' life. He gave it freely for all of us. These posts are starting to take on an anti-semetic feel.

Amen!

John 10:14) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[preacher4truth]

Kinda shocked by this post!
Ya know who "killed" Jesus? YOU Did!! And I did!. And every sinner that ever lives. Nobody took Jesus' life. He gave it freely for all of us. These posts are starting to take on an anti-semetic feel.

I'm not shocked.

 

[presidente]

Tee hee hee!!!

The last I checked, those were free online. But the translation may be a bit archaic.