Daniel 9 Already Fulfilled

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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I'm not going to address everything in your post line by line... I want to just start with these (due to some time-constraints I have at present):
I believe:
1) The time of the Two Witnesses will be 3.5 years.
Right. Coz the text itself tells us "1260 days" (what I don't get is, why you as an Historicist are not extrapolating this into a period of "1260 YEARS" like you're supposed to ;) lol... well, in order to be consistent... er, oh... yeah...)


2) The description in verse 6 aligns with the Trumpet events. (the first 5, possibly 6)
I've mentioned in past posts I agree their "1260 days" aligns with 6 of the Trumpets (so we fairly agree, on this particular point... we just disagree as to WHEN those "6 Trumpets" occur, in relation to other passages/events).

And yes, their ministry CONCLUDES in/around the "6th Trumpet / 2ND WOE" (see verse 14a saying "The SECOND WOE is past" after having just described what takes place at the END of their 1260-day ministry).

In addition to that point ^ , Rev8:13 had already informed us: "WOE [1], WOE [2], WOE [3]... BY REASON OF the other voices of the trumpet [i.e. 5, 6, and 7] OF THE THREE ANGELS [5th, 6th, 7th], which are YET TO SOUND!"

The last THREE Trumpets are connected with these THREE "WOEs".





It is the "FIFTH Trumpet / 1ST WOE unto the earth" that is the mid-point of the 7-yr trib, aka when "the great tribulation" (Rev7:14; Matt24:[15,]21) COMMENCES (i.e. the second half of the 7 years); not at the "1st Trumpet" (nor the "7th," as some suppose).

3) The descriptions from Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, and Luke 21:25-26 refer to the Trumpet events timeframe also.
ditto what I put above
4) The two witnesses actually cause the Trumpet events to come about by/through their prophecy/testimony. (the first 5, possibly 6)
We kind of agree... at least that their "1260 days" run concurrently with the first SIX Trumpets (which, as I said, includes "5th's" WOE unto the earth, and "6th's" WOE, per Rev11:14a); but we disagree on where they fall (on a timeline) in relation to other events in scripture, or in the trib.

I encourage you to examine ALL of what I've put in past posts about what occurs at the MID-point (when the "42 mos"/3.5-yrs/"1260d" [but not the "2W's 1260d] is still yet remaining, etc), coz there's A LOT that corresponds with the COMMENCING of the great tribulation [/second half of the years]... as well as the few that I've named in this short post...









[to be clear to the readers: the SEALS / BoBPs (same items) AND the first FOUR Trumpets "fit" into the first half of the 7 years;
The 5th Trumpet / FIRST Woe unto the earth is at MID-point (AOD; commencement of GREAT tribulation; man of sin seats himself in the temple; them which be in Judaea "FLEE"...etc etc... all at/around the MID-point); Then the"6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" when the "2W" conclude THEIR "1260 days" (some time AFTER the mid-point)... and the 7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial and the remaining Vials, "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED" (not, "is STARTED AND completed"... no... these are the "7 LAST plagues," not the total sum of them); and ALL OF THIS "fits" into / WITHIN the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" per 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1]
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Yes - it helps to understand that no part of Daniel 9 refers to any/the "end of the [physical] world"; rather, it is talking about the end of the 'Times of the Jews' - as defined/discussed on this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
Nor does Matthew 24 in the whole conversation leading up to the "ALL these thing before this generation passes" quote, they're never discussing the end of the world at all, the conversation wasn't about that in any way if you read it without a preconceived idea of what they're talking about. It's honestly AMAZING when you see that Jesus did everything He/God said He would , exactly when He/God said it would, and exactly how He/God said it would. It all fits together so perfectly from every angle, it is a true testament of His perfect POWER. We can all agree we have an amazing God no matter what our eschatology might be. AMAZING!
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Nor does Matthew 24 in the whole conversation [...],
they're never discussing the end of the world at all, the conversation wasn't about that in any way if you read it without a preconceived idea of what they're talking about.
Right. (y)

(So it's pointless for anyone to make the argument that this WAS His Subject... or that some of us THINK [incorrectly] that this was His Subject--not saying you or anyone else in this thread is attempting to argue such a point... but people sometimes attempt to use this strawman. lol)


The disciples' question to Him in verse 3 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]") was BASED on what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... when the angels will "REAP"... when, as they understood from His previous words [in chpt 12], they knew that "the age [singular] to come" would commence [what WE call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age" (yet future to us)]);

there was NO thought in their mind of "end of the world"... to ask Him about such... and even we pre-tribbers acknowledge this fact. :)











[and again, Lk21:32's "this generation will not pass away TILL ALL shall have taken place" must necessarily INCLUDE v.24's "of-lengthy-duration" items (... even including its own "UNTIL" matter, which itself does not CONCLUDE till Rev19, at Christ's Second Coming to the earth, when the promised and prophesied earthly MK age will commence [Jesus' Olivet Discourse Subject, except for about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a,b and Lk21:6/Mk13:2/Mt24:2... all those being verses covering the events surrounding 70ad])]
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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One of the things that throw people off concerning the 70 weeks of Daniel is not realizing that "7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week" (3 chronological divisions, end-to-end but separate) is not what is being communicated in Daniel 9:25-27. As strange as this may sound, it does not work that way. There is a half-week "shift" between the 69 weeks of verse 25 and the 62 weeks of verse 26.
70_weeks_of_Daniel.jpg
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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I applaud your decision to post this subject, I know that it can cause conflict, but I hope that we all can discuss in the Unity of the Spirit.
I'm trying to learn more about eschatology, but people tend to get too worked up and I don't like conflict that much.

Anyway, I picked out this portion of the OP because I have never gotten a comprehensive answer from "futurists" on how they come to the conclusion that there's a 2000+year gap between week 69 and 70? I can't find any Scripture that supports that idea?

I welcome any plausible response... not argument though, please.
The thing is, that Daniel is talking from the nation of Israel.
There was nothing revealed about the church.
So he saw the Peaks, but not what is in between ( the church).

Well, how Nehemiah6 explains this is more logic for me then to believe, that we are in tribulation time since 70 n.C. or where are we now if the 70 weeks are already fulfilled?