David vs goliath (question)

[DiscipleDave]

Just a question, i don`t want to make anybody mad, i`m just
interested in learning. It says david slays goliath, well don`t it
say in the bible though shall not kill, it just confuses me, i know
through jesus, killers are forgiven most of his apostles were
former killers etc..

It would be great to get a better understanding, insight, i have
a lot of question for those who have answers.

-Bless-

Under the old Covenant (Old Testament) it was not wrong to kill your enemies, nor was it wrong to hate them. The commandments given to the Israelite people were for the Israelite people. Thou shalt not kill, was a commandment for them to not kill each other, kill an Israelite. Gentiles were not under the laws of the Old Covenant, they were outsiders and therefore the law did not apply to them.

^i^

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

David and Goliath speak more about slaying the enemy, the giant!
Interesting though, that an army could not crush the giant enemy, all one needed was a rock.
Just something to think about.

God bless
pickles

Yes beautifull INSIGHT
THE ROCK GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

 

[RedTent]

=DiscipleDave; ]Under the old Covenant (Old Testament) it was not wrong to kill your enemies, nor was it wrong to hate them. The commandments given to the Israelite people were for the Israelite people. Thou shalt not kill, was a commandment for them to not kill each other, kill an Israelite. Gentiles were not under the laws of the Old Covenant, they were outsiders and therefore the law did not apply to them.

God did not change between the OT and the NT. God is eternal, everlasting. It is wrong to kill, always was that way, it is how God created us and the world. In the OT it talks about God wanting the people who are His protected, and orders us to protect. God, for instance, told Joshua to destroy the Amorites. The Amorites believed in a false God and would destroy the Hebrews with their ways. It is not true that God ever said to hate or to kill unless it was absolutely necessary to protect lives.

Often God told the Hebrews to care for the gentiles that God called “the strangers among you”.

 

[DiscipleDave]

God did not change between the OT and the NT. God is eternal, everlasting. It is wrong to kill, always was that way, it is how God created us and the world. In the OT it talks about God wanting the people who are His protected, and orders us to protect. God, for instance, told Joshua to destroy the Amorites. The Amorites believed in a false God and would destroy the Hebrews with their ways. It is not true that God ever said to hate or to kill unless it was absolutely necessary to protect lives.

Often God told the Hebrews to care for the gentiles that God called “the strangers among you”.

You are correct. God does not change, however His covenants do. What we are suppose to do did change. Under the old Covenant you sacrificed an animal to have your sin forgiven, That has changed has it not? Under the Old Covenant Salvation came by obedience to the Law, that has also Changed to now we are Saved through Faith and Grace. So there is most certainly a change between what was expected under the Old Covenant from what is expected under the New Covenant.
Nowhere in all of the Old Testament does it teach to Love your enemies. Read some of David's writings in Psalms where he prayed to God to destroy people who were his enemies. David many times wished for God to execute death sentences on his enemies. This was not wrong nor evil in God's eyes, for it is written of David, that He did all things well in the sight of God except for the incident with the Hittite. So then even David's hatred for his enemies, was acceptable to God, unless of coarse you don't believe the Scriptures which teach that David did all things to please Him.
So there is a change, not with God, but what God wants us to do.

^i^

 

[Laodicea]

You are correct. God does not change, however His covenants do. What we are suppose to do did change. Under the old Covenant you sacrificed an animal to have your sin forgiven, That has changed has it not? Under the Old Covenant Salvation came by obedience to the Law, that has also Changed to now we are Saved through Faith and Grace. So there is most certainly a change between what was expected under the Old Covenant from what is expected under the New Covenant.
Nowhere in all of the Old Testament does it teach to Love your enemies. Read some of David's writings in Psalms where he prayed to God to destroy people who were his enemies. David many times wished for God to execute death sentences on his enemies. This was not wrong nor evil in God's eyes, for it is written of David, that He did all things well in the sight of God except for the incident with the Hittite. So then even David's hatred for his enemies, was acceptable to God, unless of coarse you don't believe the Scriptures which teach that David did all things to please Him.
So there is a change, not with God, but what God wants us to do.

^i^

The animal sacrifices were not to forgive sins but, to point to Christ who would forgive their sins, they were shadows.
Hebrews 8:4-5 KJV
(4) For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
(5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 10:4 KJV
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

People in the OT were never saved by obedience to the Law
Genesis 15:6 KJV
(6) And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:6-7 KJV
(6) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(7) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Obedience has always been the fruit of faith not the means for salvation.

 

[DiscipleDave]

The animal sacrifices were not to forgive sins but, to point to Christ who would forgive their sins, they were shadows.
Hebrews 8:4-5 KJV
(4) For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
(5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 10:4 KJV
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

My christian friend you do error in your interpretations of the Scriptures that you are reading concerning the Old Covenant. Under the old covenant a person was SAVED, by living by the Laws of God. NOT by beleiving in Jesus Christ who was not yet born and sacrificed. True the animal sacrifices were a shadow of what was to come, what Jesus would do in the future. But THEN, in their present time, the only was to be Saved was obedience to the Laws of God, when they disobeyed, they were commanded to sacrifice an animal to have that sin forgiven.

Lev 4:27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. 30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.32 And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.33 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay it for a sin offering in the place where they kill the burnt offering.34 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

So according to the Word of God, how was there sins forgiven? Not Through belief in Christ, that is the New Covenant method of Salvation. Salvation under the Old Covenant, was obedience to the Laws of God, if they disobeyed, they sacrificed an animal to have that particular sin forgiven, as does the Scriptures teach. Are you saying then, that they were not forgiven when they (under the old covenant) sacrificed animals to have their sins forgiven, actually weren't forgiven? That would mean ALL people prior to Jesus Christ being born and sacrificed were NOT SAVED. Being Saved under the Old Covenant and being Saved under the New Covenant are two entirely different methods of being Saved. The first being obedience to the Laws of God, the second by believing in Jesus Christ and abiding in His Word.

People in the OT were never saved by obedience to the Law

Then tell us how were they Saved? Because after reading the old Testament over 70 times in my life, it most assuredly teaches over and over again that a person was Saved if they kept His Commandments, if they lived by the Laws of God. And it plainly teaches those people, that if they sinned, how they can have those sins forgiven and that was by sacrificing an animal, so that they may atone for their sins and have their sins forgiven. Old Covenant sins were forgiven by animal sacrifice, New Covenant sins are forgiven by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. So then if you teach in the OT they were not Saved by obedience to the law, then how were they SAVED according to you? Because according to the Word of God, that is exactly how they were SAVED under the old Covenant.

Genesis 15:6 KJV

(6) And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:6-7 KJV
(6) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(7) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Obedience has always been the fruit of faith not the means for salvation.

You do error not knowing the Scriptures and what they teach my fellow Christian friend. Abraham was not under the old covenant, Abraham was righteous not by the standards of either covenants. Abraham was not righteous because of obedience to the Law of God, (old Covenant) because the the Law was not present until Moses, the old Covenant did not start until Moses. Abraham was not righteous because of the belief that Jesus Christ was crucified and died on the cross for his sins, because that had not yet happened. Abraham was righteous because he believed the voice of God that spoke with him. NOT because of any covenant whatsoever.

^i^