David's state in Acts 2

[oyster67]

One big issue in Christian theology is whether the "dead" are alive in a post-dead state or "sleeping", awaiting judgement.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the verse, Peter says in Acts 2 that David is dead and buried and "his tomb exists to this day". This seems to confirm that the latter situation is the case.
There are other verses in Scripture which seem to corroborate that position.
I'd be interested in others' opinions (preferably biblically-based) as to this issue.

The Bible describes this in many ways. The one that comes to my mind is...

1 Thessalonians 4:15
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”

It seems that we will all experience heaven for the first time together (to me, at least.)

God's Word, as well as observable science, provides a very simple and feasible solution. (Possible solution.)

1 Corinthians 15:52
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

This tells us that the migration is not a gradual one, but nearly instantaneous. It is a well-known fact that time does not conform to classical notions when near instantaneous processes are involved. For example, if a rocket-ship were to travel to a distant place nearly instantaneously, vast amounts of time could seem to have passed in the eye of the beholder at home, while the time experienced by the migrator (soul of the saint) would only be the twinkling of an eye. This is a well understood phenomenon that is verifiable by scientific experimentation.

ie. A very short sleep/travelling time for the saint's soul. No travel pillow required.

From God's point of view, the dead saint's soul would be whisked straight from death time to Rapture time. This would have been confusing until the time of Einstein and modern physics.

* Tech note: The linear distance between grave and cloud need to be a factor due to fact that route need not be linear. Astronauts were able to travel through time by merely circling the Earth at a very high rate of speed.

As I said, this would result in all of us as the Church going in together. Grandpa would not have to spend years in Heaven grating his teeth at every stupid thing junior was doing down on Earth.

I completely agree that God could accomplish all of the above even if it was not a modernly understood property of space-time physics.

 

[Thewatchman]

One big issue in Christian theology is whether the "dead" are alive in a post-dead state or "sleeping", awaiting judgement.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the verse, Peter says in Acts 2 that David is dead and buried and "his tomb exists to this day". This seems to confirm that the latter situation is the case.
There are other verses in Scripture which seem to corroborate that position.
I'd be interested in others' opinions (preferably biblically-based) as to this issue.

When you die your body returns to where it came from; it does not matter if you are in the water, in the ground, in a crept, or your ashes are kept or scattered.

Ecclesiastics 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecclesiastics 12:6

All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
English Standard Version
before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,

Berean Study Bible
Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well,

King James Bible
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.



Verse 7.

English Standard Version
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Berean Study Bible
before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

King James Bible
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



1st. Corinthians 15

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Once we die the flesh body is of no use any more. We will get a new spiritual body that is the same for everyone the good the bad and the ugly. The soul your soul will either be mortal meaning libel to die, those that make make it will have an immortal soul one that will not die.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Bible describes this in many ways. The one that comes to my mind is...

1 Thessalonians 4:15
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”

It seems that we will all experience heaven for the first time together (to me, at least.)

God's Word, as well as observable science, provides a very simple and feasible solution. (Possible solution.)

1 Corinthians 15:52
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

This tells us that the migration is not a gradual one, but nearly instantaneous. It is a well-known fact that time does not conform to classical notions when near instantaneous processes are involved. For example, if a rocket-ship were to travel to a distant place nearly instantaneously, vast amounts of time could seem to have passed in the eye of the beholder at home, while the time experienced by the migrator (soul of the saint) would only be the twinkling of an eye. This is a well understood phenomenon that is verifiable by scientific experimentation.

ie. A very short sleep/travelling time for the saint's soul. No travel pillow required.

From God's point of view, the dead saint's soul would be whisked straight from death time to Rapture time. This would have been confusing until the time of Einstein and modern physics.

* Tech note: The linear distance between grave and cloud need to be a factor due to fact that route need not be linear. Astronauts were able to travel through time by merely circling the Earth at a very high rate of speed.

As I said, this would result in all of us as the Church going in together. Grandpa would not have to spend years in Heaven grating his teeth at every stupid thing junior was doing down on Earth.

I completely agree that God could accomplish all of the above even if it was not a modernly understood property of space-time physics.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”

if you look at what Paul’s establishing as awake and asleep before the at verse does it change the thinking of what it means ?

“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see if you keep reading on is he talking g about death ?

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:2-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see Paul’s using a visual to help us understand “ sleep “ here he’s talking about those who seem to fall off of following the lord and the evidence is t showing. He’s sort of establishing himself how Toni deer tend e term sleep there I think he’s saying those who don’t turn against God but believe In Jesus but never pursue him and never show a lot of fruit

he’s sort of saying I believe like when he says “ some who’s work is burned up , Will still be saved as by fire “

there are those alive in Christ and awake who have heard this

“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:6-11, 13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


again he’s not actually talking to dead people in the grave he’s calling for believers to wake up and sin not

“Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:34‬ ‭

Because there’s a difference in those who do this


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬

and this

“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as Christian’s the mature and fruitful shouldnt look at the immature and less fruitful and assume they aren’t saved or aren’t going to be saved in the end we shouldn’t sorrow about a believer thinking thier lost even if they fall asleep he can save them in the end at the last resurrection

but we can attend the first if we repent and believe the gospel d wake up and realize sin is a bond and it’s a lie that we can’t break free

 

[phil36]

One big issue in Christian theology is whether the "dead" are alive in a post-dead state or "sleeping", awaiting judgement.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the verse, Peter says in Acts 2 that David is dead and buried and "his tomb exists to this day". This seems to confirm that the latter situation is the case.
There are other verses in Scripture which seem to corroborate that position.
I'd be interested in others' opinions (preferably biblically-based) as to this issue.

Hi AndrewMorgan.

I don't think that is the focus of Acts 2. We all die, are buried and have graves, some have tombs. The focus in Acts 2 is on Christ that He was raised from the dead. Unlike David who's flesh decayed in the grave. David's body is in the grave Christ rose with his. Acts 2:25-34.

Regarding where we go or state we will be after death. I believe scripture teaches that those in the Lord are with him in paradise and conscious, yet as our bodies lie corrupting in the ground. Our new bodies at the end of age is a different topic.

I suppose when we die it will be like the thief on the cross:

Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hi AndrewMorgan.

I don't think that is the focus of Acts 2. We all die, are buried and have graves, some have tombs. The focus in Acts 2 is on Christ that He was raised from the dead. Unlike David who's flesh decayed in the grave. David's body is in the grave Christ rose with his. Acts 2:25-34.

Regarding where we go or state we will be after death. I believe scripture teaches that those in the Lord are with him in paradise and conscious, yet as our bodies lie corrupting in the ground. Our new bodies at the end of age is a different topic.

I suppose when we die it will be like the thief on the cross:

Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

“I believe scripture teaches that those in the Lord are with him in paradise and conscious, yet as our bodies lie corrupting in the ground. Our new bodies at the end of age is a different topic.”

amen or maybe our new bodies , are not of this world as the kingdom isnt and Jesus isn’t and his followers are called not to be

maybe we need to let our existence according to our flesh go , and embrace what’s better ?

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 44-45, 47, 49-50‬ ‭

maybe we had earthly bodies to pass through this world and choose life with Jesus here

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭

maybe that’s not what our earthly bodies are made for ? Maybe we have a body temporary for earth and the new one is born in spirit when we believe and then later parts the flesh and goes to be with Jesus in his kingdom , which is not of this world but certainly will exist forever