Dealing with the idea of Hell
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https://carm.org/hell-eternal
Christ himself said hell is an eternal punishment. No serious biblical scholar believes in annihilationism because they have to ignore numerous verses while twisting and rewriting others. Annihilationists create a god in their own image to suit their own emotional stances.
Christ himself said hell is an eternal punishment. No serious biblical scholar believes in annihilationism because they have to ignore numerous verses while twisting and rewriting others. Annihilationists create a god in their own image to suit their own emotional stances.
No. Not at all. I used to believe in Eternal Concious Torment for many, many years. I also was on the fence for a good long while in believing in Eternal Concious Torment and Conditional Immortality (i.e. that one will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire) based on what Scripture was saying. Then one day, I discovered an explanation to the many verses in Scripture.
I believe why most hold to ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is because they do not understand that the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible.
Take Revelation 14:11 KJV as an example.
Should the English words "for ever" (or "forever") be read literally meaning an endless state?
Well, I heard a pastor once say that the best way to interpret the Bible is to let the Bible do the interpreting for you. What I am I talking about? Well, the Bible tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 KJV which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Yet is the city of Edom burning today? No, of course not. So we then realize that this phrase is speaking metaphorically.
In other words, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can have a temporal sense. For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?
• In Gen.13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.
• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Ex.12:24; 27:21; 28:43).
• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek.16:53-55).
• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer.30:17).
• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic.1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.16:53).
• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph.2:9, Jer.25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer.49:6).
• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deut.23:3):
• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Hab.3 3:6).
• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex.40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Heb.7:14-18).
• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.
• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).
• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Lev.24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Cor. 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).
• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez.29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer.49:39).
• "Moab is destroyed" (Jer.48:4, 42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer.48:47).
• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa.32:13-15).
• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.
• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in II Cor.4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”
Source Used:
http://www.apttoteach.org/Theology/E...f/911_Hell.pdf
I believe why most hold to ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) is because they do not understand that the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible.
Take Revelation 14:11 KJV as an example.
Should the English words "for ever" (or "forever") be read literally meaning an endless state?
Well, I heard a pastor once say that the best way to interpret the Bible is to let the Bible do the interpreting for you. What I am I talking about? Well, the Bible tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 KJV which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Yet is the city of Edom burning today? No, of course not. So we then realize that this phrase is speaking metaphorically.
In other words, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can have a temporal sense. For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?
• In Gen.13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.
• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Ex.12:24; 27:21; 28:43).
• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek.16:53-55).
• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer.30:17).
• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic.1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.16:53).
• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph.2:9, Jer.25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer.49:6).
• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deut.23:3):
• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Hab.3 3:6).
• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex.40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Heb.7:14-18).
• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.
• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).
• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Lev.24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Cor. 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).
• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez.29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer.49:39).
• "Moab is destroyed" (Jer.48:4, 42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer.48:47).
• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa.32:13-15).
• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.
• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in II Cor.4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”
Source Used:
http://www.apttoteach.org/Theology/E...f/911_Hell.pdf
Son, I have watched the most harden people come to Jesus because they saw his love and not the consequence of their sin.
Prov 16.6 says by mercy and truth, iniquity is purged and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.
Besides the Holy Spirit 's job is to convict the world of their sin, not us. Jesus proved this in John 8.
Mercy, truth and grace come first then people will see their sin and depart from it, through the understanding of the reverential fear of God.
The methods must match the message and many "Christians" methods never match the message. This includes the doctrine of you gotta know hell, before Jesus can save you.
Prov 16.6 says by mercy and truth, iniquity is purged and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.
Besides the Holy Spirit 's job is to convict the world of their sin, not us. Jesus proved this in John 8.
Mercy, truth and grace come first then people will see their sin and depart from it, through the understanding of the reverential fear of God.
The methods must match the message and many "Christians" methods never match the message. This includes the doctrine of you gotta know hell, before Jesus can save you.
While I believe there is a literal actual Hell, I do not think it is a torture chamber but merely a prison (that is temporary). This is obvious by the fact that the richman was not screaming while talking to Abraham. For if some bad guys had held somebody down into a campfire and they tried to talk to him, I seriously doubt that guy will be able to talk back because he is screaming so much. For if you were burning on fire, you would not ask for a little water to cool your tongue, you would be asking for buckets of water.
Anyways, if you want to check out all the verses for Conditional Immortality, this site was really helpful for me.
For they teach that the Lake of Fire is a place where the wicked will be destroyed.
Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical
(Granted they believe in "soul sleep" which I find to be unbiblical, but the verses they present on the Lake of Fire destroying the wicked is sound).
Anyways, if you want to check out all the verses for Conditional Immortality, this site was really helpful for me.
For they teach that the Lake of Fire is a place where the wicked will be destroyed.
Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical
(Granted they believe in "soul sleep" which I find to be unbiblical, but the verses they present on the Lake of Fire destroying the wicked is sound).
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S
Here is a description of the group that Eliwood is providing videos from. He has posted videos from this site on other threads. One can clearly see it is heretical. I was a member of the parent organization for about 17 years and I can tell you that the theology is heretical. Fortunately for me, the parent organization admitted that it was teaching error and started teaching truth.
Question: "What is the Restored Church of God, and what do they believe?"
Answer: The Restored Church of God (RCG) is one of many offshoots of the original Worldwide Church of God (WCG), founded by Herbert W. Armstrong in 1934. The Restored Church of God was started by David C. Pack in 1999 after he was fired from the Global Church of God. The Restored Church of God claims to retain the “tenets, style, and structure of the earlier Worldwide Church of God, before the death of Herbert W. Armstrong in 1986.”
The mass splintering of the Worldwide Church of God began after a series of major doctrinal changes in 1992. This has given rise to so many groups (including the United Church of God, Grace Communion International, the Philadelphia Church of God, the Global Church of God, the Living Church of God, House of Yahweh, the Intercontinental Church of God, the Church of God—Worldwide Association, and the Church of God—International Community) that the term Armstrongism was coined to cover all their errant theologies.
David Pack considered himself an “Elijah” to Herbert Armstrong’s “Apostleship,” until he more recently began claiming the office of Apostle for himself. According to Pack’s website, “he has reached millions around the globe with the most powerful truths of the Bible, unknown to almost all” (emphasis added). It is this “special knowledge” of the Bible that is part of the problem with the Restored Church of God.
The church’s belief system is founded on select principles from the Old Testament such as the Ten Commandments, dietary laws, tithing (three types are required), and compulsory celebration of the high Sabbaths and feast days. They follow an Old Covenant Sabbath, worshipping from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Celebration of Easter and Christmas are not allowed.
Members of the Restored Church of God are warned that leaving the fellowship will cause them to lose any chance of eternal life. Salvation is found only in the Restored Church of God. All other churches are considered apostate or counterfeit.
The Restored Church of God teaches binitarian theology rather than trinitarian. They believe that the Godhead temporarily consists of Jesus the Messiah, as the creator and spokesman, and God the Father. Their God Family doctrine states that every human who ever lived may be spiritually born and enter into the Godhead.
Pack teaches an imminent end of the world, with World War III beginning in the United States and Britain, the economy collapsing, and death and destruction reigning. In making such prophecies, Pack continues the tradition of Armstrong himself, who made over 200 prophecies (with specific dates) of massive destruction in the United States. Armstrong’s prophecies never came to pass. Pack typically avoids referencing specific dates.
The Restored Church of God teaches the false Anglo-Israel theology, stating that residents of Britain are the tribe of Ephraim and that those of the U.S. are Manasseh. They also teach that white Anglo-Saxons are the chosen people of God.
A religious sect can be considered a cult when it denies the basic theology that defines the Christian faith. Armstrongism, with its denial of the Trinity, its false prophecies, and its promotion of Law-based justification, has always been considered a cult. The Restored Church of God, in seeking to restore the original doctrines of Armstrongism, falls into the same category. “‘They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them,’ declares the Lord” Jeremiah 29:9.
Read more: What is the Restored Church of God, and what do they believe?
Question: "What is the Restored Church of God, and what do they believe?"
Answer: The Restored Church of God (RCG) is one of many offshoots of the original Worldwide Church of God (WCG), founded by Herbert W. Armstrong in 1934. The Restored Church of God was started by David C. Pack in 1999 after he was fired from the Global Church of God. The Restored Church of God claims to retain the “tenets, style, and structure of the earlier Worldwide Church of God, before the death of Herbert W. Armstrong in 1986.”
The mass splintering of the Worldwide Church of God began after a series of major doctrinal changes in 1992. This has given rise to so many groups (including the United Church of God, Grace Communion International, the Philadelphia Church of God, the Global Church of God, the Living Church of God, House of Yahweh, the Intercontinental Church of God, the Church of God—Worldwide Association, and the Church of God—International Community) that the term Armstrongism was coined to cover all their errant theologies.
David Pack considered himself an “Elijah” to Herbert Armstrong’s “Apostleship,” until he more recently began claiming the office of Apostle for himself. According to Pack’s website, “he has reached millions around the globe with the most powerful truths of the Bible, unknown to almost all” (emphasis added). It is this “special knowledge” of the Bible that is part of the problem with the Restored Church of God.
The church’s belief system is founded on select principles from the Old Testament such as the Ten Commandments, dietary laws, tithing (three types are required), and compulsory celebration of the high Sabbaths and feast days. They follow an Old Covenant Sabbath, worshipping from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Celebration of Easter and Christmas are not allowed.
Members of the Restored Church of God are warned that leaving the fellowship will cause them to lose any chance of eternal life. Salvation is found only in the Restored Church of God. All other churches are considered apostate or counterfeit.
The Restored Church of God teaches binitarian theology rather than trinitarian. They believe that the Godhead temporarily consists of Jesus the Messiah, as the creator and spokesman, and God the Father. Their God Family doctrine states that every human who ever lived may be spiritually born and enter into the Godhead.
Pack teaches an imminent end of the world, with World War III beginning in the United States and Britain, the economy collapsing, and death and destruction reigning. In making such prophecies, Pack continues the tradition of Armstrong himself, who made over 200 prophecies (with specific dates) of massive destruction in the United States. Armstrong’s prophecies never came to pass. Pack typically avoids referencing specific dates.
The Restored Church of God teaches the false Anglo-Israel theology, stating that residents of Britain are the tribe of Ephraim and that those of the U.S. are Manasseh. They also teach that white Anglo-Saxons are the chosen people of God.
A religious sect can be considered a cult when it denies the basic theology that defines the Christian faith. Armstrongism, with its denial of the Trinity, its false prophecies, and its promotion of Law-based justification, has always been considered a cult. The Restored Church of God, in seeking to restore the original doctrines of Armstrongism, falls into the same category. “‘They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them,’ declares the Lord” Jeremiah 29:9.
Read more: What is the Restored Church of God, and what do they believe?
The Bible says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
I don't agree with everything Jack Chick puts out (especially in regard to his KJV onlyism) but there is a lot of wisdom in that particular tract.
Remember, the Bible says: "It is through fear of the Lord that men depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6)
It is not wrong to turn to God out of fear of His judgment. Out of it comes great love for Him because of His generous pardon. The Bible says God places before man a blessing or a curse. We choose what we want to receive.
I often wonder who gets to decide when a word changes definition in the Bible?
Do we?
-Decide based on surrounding verses, and context?
Or?
-Whenever we feel like it?
Or?
-it really means what we think it means, and it stays the same?
Revelation 20
Death and Hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Why would it be worded this way?
So? Does it read?
Hell and Hell are cast into Hell?
Death and Hell are cast into Hell?
Something isn't jiving with what you are saying?
Do we?
-Decide based on surrounding verses, and context?
Or?
-Whenever we feel like it?
Or?
-it really means what we think it means, and it stays the same?
Revelation 20
Death and Hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Why would it be worded this way?
So? Does it read?
Hell and Hell are cast into Hell?
Death and Hell are cast into Hell?
Something isn't jiving with what you are saying?