DEC 25TH: The Start of Christianity or?
- Thread starter Medad
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Actually, it was because the gentiles had been celebrating pagan holidays because that is all they knew. In order to get them away from paganism, the Apostles, church leaders had to give them a reason to celebrate Jesus the Christ, rather than paganism.... IMO and from what many learned Christians have told me in years past.
Way I see it, those durn pagans had hold of December 25th long enough, so we took their holiday and made it a celebration of the Savior of the World.
Way I see it, those durn pagans had hold of December 25th long enough, so we took their holiday and made it a celebration of the Savior of the World.
Religious days, like December 25th, were co-opted by the Roman church and made into Christian holy days. This appeased the majority of the pagan population and the Roman church leadership. With the same agenda, the church repurposed their expensive statues of the pantheon and renamed them to represent figures from the scriptures: the Apostles, Mary, Jesus, etc. Pagan buildings were retrofitted with Christian themes yet they retained much of their pagan opulence: colored glass, gold inlays, fine carpeting, expensive robes, etc.
These things are really not debatable and are matters of history. Perspective is important.
Perhaps we should start with the question: why would a politician call together a religious council?
Answer: It was beneficial to that politician.
The following knew the day and time of the birth of the Lord Jesus:
Mary, Joseph, his half brothers and sisters, Anna, Simeon....etc....
So, your conclusion that "God did not intend for it to be revealed" is rather rash...to say the least!
And all the info is there to work it out, and certainly to the timing of it!
Mary, Joseph, his half brothers and sisters, Anna, Simeon....etc....
So, your conclusion that "God did not intend for it to be revealed" is rather rash...to say the least!
And all the info is there to work it out, and certainly to the timing of it!
The quotation below proves you wrong.
"In which year was Jesus born?
While this is sometimes debated, the majority of New Testament scholars place Jesus’ birth in 4 B.C. or before. This is because most date the death of King Herod the Great to 4 B.C. Since Herod played a major role in the narrative of Jesus’ birth (see Matthew 2), Jesus would have had to be born before Herod died."
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...historical-jesus/when-was-jesus-born-bc-or-ad
As to the Feast of Tabernacles (late September to early October), since the Law of Moses was still in effect when Christ was born, the Bible would have alluded to the Feast of Tabernacles for such a significant event as the birth of Christ. But none of the Gospels allude to this feast. Actually September 11 is more likely.
https://www.newvision.co.ug/news/1090427/jesus-born-september
"In which year was Jesus born?
While this is sometimes debated, the majority of New Testament scholars place Jesus’ birth in 4 B.C. or before. This is because most date the death of King Herod the Great to 4 B.C. Since Herod played a major role in the narrative of Jesus’ birth (see Matthew 2), Jesus would have had to be born before Herod died."
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...historical-jesus/when-was-jesus-born-bc-or-ad
As to the Feast of Tabernacles (late September to early October), since the Law of Moses was still in effect when Christ was born, the Bible would have alluded to the Feast of Tabernacles for such a significant event as the birth of Christ. But none of the Gospels allude to this feast. Actually September 11 is more likely.
https://www.newvision.co.ug/news/1090427/jesus-born-september
Christianity wasn't chosen as the Roman State religion. In 313 (Edict of Milan), the Roman emperor Constantine the Great acknowledged Christianity and Christians became tolerated. They were no longer persecuted. It is the emperor Theodosius who declares Christianity as the state religion and forbids paganism.
I don't even know what to make out of this statement. I don't understand how did the church gave up its calling...? If it weren't for the Christian emperors (who are saints in my church) Christians would have remained a sect in the catacombs. These emperors contributed to the spreading of Christianity. We compare Saint Constantine to the Apostles. The European culture begins in 325 A.D., at the ecumenical council of Nicaea, when our creed was written, under the eyes of Constantine. That's a big win for Christianity! Don't you see that? The culture started to revolve around Jesus Christ.
I don't even know what to make out of this statement. I don't understand how did the church gave up its calling...? If it weren't for the Christian emperors (who are saints in my church) Christians would have remained a sect in the catacombs. These emperors contributed to the spreading of Christianity. We compare Saint Constantine to the Apostles. The European culture begins in 325 A.D., at the ecumenical council of Nicaea, when our creed was written, under the eyes of Constantine. That's a big win for Christianity! Don't you see that? The culture started to revolve around Jesus Christ.
Religious days, like December 25th, were co-opted by the Roman church and made into Christian holy days.
Why do you call it the "roman" church? We are still in IV century. The church split in 1054. Call it the church one, unseparated.
What majority of pagan population? They were in minority. Christianity was winning ground. Didn't you say in the beginning of your comment that Christianity was growing larger and larger? Nobody needed to appease the pagans. I mean... Christians accepted to be tortured in the most gruesome ways rather than bring offerings to the pagan gods, but they just couldn't make up their minds about the holidays so they made a compromise in order to appease the pagans? Do you actually believe this?
How can you say this stupidity without blushing? Do you take us for little children who know nothing about history, church history and even art history?
What expensive statues have been renamed to represent the apostles, Mary and Jesus? Show me just ONE STATUE of an idol from the Greco-Roman antique world that has survived (i.e. that wasn't destroyed by Christians) and has been "repurposed" to represent figures from the Scripture.
(I bet you will come up with the religious art from the Renaissance)
Pagan opulence you say.
Yes. Thank you for the enlightenment.
What majority of pagan population? They were in minority. Christianity was winning ground. Didn't you say in the beginning of your comment that Christianity was growing larger and larger? Nobody needed to appease the pagans. I mean... Christians accepted to be tortured in the most gruesome ways rather than bring offerings to the pagan gods, but they just couldn't make up their minds about the holidays so they made a compromise in order to appease the pagans? Do you actually believe this?
How can you say this stupidity without blushing? Do you take us for little children who know nothing about history, church history and even art history?
What expensive statues have been renamed to represent the apostles, Mary and Jesus? Show me just ONE STATUE of an idol from the Greco-Roman antique world that has survived (i.e. that wasn't destroyed by Christians) and has been "repurposed" to represent figures from the Scripture.
(I bet you will come up with the religious art from the Renaissance)
Pagan opulence you say.
Yes. Thank you for the enlightenment.
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op: the start of 'christianity'?
Not at 'Christ's Birth Into Judaism' { whatever that unknown date is }, but,
on the road to Damascus, with our [ 'christian' ] pattern, Paul:
More info here: I have decided to follow Jesus?
Amen.
Not at 'Christ's Birth Into Judaism' { whatever that unknown date is }, but,
on the road to Damascus, with our [ 'christian' ] pattern, Paul:
"Howbeit for this cause I obtained Mercy, that in me first
Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern
to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting."
(1 Timothy 1:16 AV cp "the difference" in Acts 15:11)
More info here: I have decided to follow Jesus?
Amen.
You should have asked more questions.
We, in Christ, should judge matters from a heavenly view. This is the elementary doctrine of eternal judgement.
Instead of repeating what the Roman Church said about “Constantine’s Blessings” we should ask the question “Why does a politician convene and religious council?”
By the time Constantine offered the church toleration, believers had already conquered the Roman Empire by numbers: even under intense and systematic persecution the church grew and was, by 300AD, the most numerous homogenous group in the entire empire.
Milan simply ended legal persecution of believers. Christianity didn’t become the state religion until about 383AD. But, in exchange for their new-found privilege and freedoms, the church had to agree to support the Roman throne and declare that God established the rulers there on. This was the origin of the English practice of “the Devine Right of Kings”.
This was the devil’s exchange. The same one offered to Jesus: support me and I will give you all the kingdoms.
Instead, had the church refused to become the state religion of a polytheistic culture, she would have continued to grow amd conquer by the grace of Christ.
We, in Christ, should judge matters from a heavenly view. This is the elementary doctrine of eternal judgement.
Instead of repeating what the Roman Church said about “Constantine’s Blessings” we should ask the question “Why does a politician convene and religious council?”
By the time Constantine offered the church toleration, believers had already conquered the Roman Empire by numbers: even under intense and systematic persecution the church grew and was, by 300AD, the most numerous homogenous group in the entire empire.
Milan simply ended legal persecution of believers. Christianity didn’t become the state religion until about 383AD. But, in exchange for their new-found privilege and freedoms, the church had to agree to support the Roman throne and declare that God established the rulers there on. This was the origin of the English practice of “the Devine Right of Kings”.
This was the devil’s exchange. The same one offered to Jesus: support me and I will give you all the kingdoms.
Instead, had the church refused to become the state religion of a polytheistic culture, she would have continued to grow amd conquer by the grace of Christ.