It is true that the bdf is well known for it's hostile and bloody reputation but in my opinion this is the very reason that Love is so desperately needed and God's heart must be shown after all the light shines brightest in the darkness. Jesus even said that it's not the healthy that needs a doctor and likewise it's not the loving and the pure in heart that need to be shown God's heart and love through us the most is it?
Delegated Authority?
- Thread starter Yet
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
what I love so much about my brothers and sisters in Christ, who are called, elected, real, is that their Love
cannot be compromised...they walk the walk and talk the talk, just like a duck!
cannot be compromised...they walk the walk and talk the talk, just like a duck!
1
Nico laitans ... Rulers over the laity. Vicarius filii dei ... Vicars of the sons of God ... 666 ... Marked on the right hand (workers, doing the work of the 'head'), lordship salvation. Sociopathy abounds in society and is rewarded, in schools, in the workplace, in religions ... Those without "jurisdiction over the person" or "subject matter jurisdiction" forcing their will on persons without consent and with intent to gain. Apostasy abounds ...
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Matt 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Matt 23:13
Abundant evidence in the NT for a plurality of elders and the priesthood of all believers.
No evidence at all for the one delegated empowered 'pastor' paradigm.
So why do christians reject the biblical pattern?
Mark 7:6-8 'Well has Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors Me with there lips, but THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
How is it in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men.
For laying aside the commandments of God, you hold the traditions of men, .....'
And what's the result of the 'traditions of men'? 'Making the word of God of none effect'. Mark 7:13
Luke 6:46 'And why call you Me, Lord, Lord and do NOT the things that I say?'
1Samuel 15:22 'And Samuel said, Has the Lord great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in OBEYING THE VOICE OF THE LORD?
Behold, to OBEY is better than sacrifice, and to hearkin than the fat of rams.
For REBELLION is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubborness is as iniquity and idolatry.'
My calling is to admonish the body of Christ to obey His word. Any other way is not an option.
No evidence at all for the one delegated empowered 'pastor' paradigm.
So why do christians reject the biblical pattern?
Mark 7:6-8 'Well has Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors Me with there lips, but THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
How is it in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men.
For laying aside the commandments of God, you hold the traditions of men, .....'
And what's the result of the 'traditions of men'? 'Making the word of God of none effect'. Mark 7:13
Luke 6:46 'And why call you Me, Lord, Lord and do NOT the things that I say?'
1Samuel 15:22 'And Samuel said, Has the Lord great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in OBEYING THE VOICE OF THE LORD?
Behold, to OBEY is better than sacrifice, and to hearkin than the fat of rams.
For REBELLION is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubborness is as iniquity and idolatry.'
My calling is to admonish the body of Christ to obey His word. Any other way is not an option.
Last edited:
B
Quick over view of the seven churches and the letters to them.
(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4).
(2) Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church that would suffer persecution (2:10).
(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16).
(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20).
(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2).
(6) Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church that had endured patiently (3:10).
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16).
(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4).
(2) Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church that would suffer persecution (2:10).
(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16).
(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20).
(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2).
(6) Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church that had endured patiently (3:10).
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16).
B
Greetings in Jesus YET, I was going to PM you but I won't now. I read this article through. It is sound and already what was in my heart. Although I do see a problem, not with the message but with what the "followers have become", it is the mindset of pew sitters that gets my goat.
To take this forward in any context within our lives means fessing up and taking responsibility for how we are and who we are in Christ. It means forgetting the buildings we call church and realising that Church, the ecclisia, the body of Christ, the bride of the Son of God is who we are.
mpaper453 almost has it down to a tee, in #24, but still sees the need for a preacher. The Holy Spirit is the teacher, Jesus will lead through His Spirit and with His Spirit will make known to us all we need to know.
The one who facilitates any gathering of the faithful has no authority except within themselves, as do all the faithful as they meet. If it is in a building directly constructed for that purpose, then those attending should know this and the costs of such should be shared around. Any excess should then be handed to those who's lives are hard for the lack of provision.
If you are getting together with the faithful to build such a building, first consider those people living around that area. Are they provided for, does anyone lack shelter, warmth or food (and I don't mean one meal), would it not be better to 'be Church' in your own house and provide a building or the habitation of those who can not afford one, so they will have an address and can start their lives with confidence and somewhere safe to sleep in and something to cook on and feed themselves?
If you happen to live in an affluent area, where money is of no concern and you want to erect a building for Jesus, just think first and challenge yourselves, if you have money to do this why not benefit others any way, Find an area where there is poverty and do something there, build a house of multiple occupancy and employ someone to take care of those who need it (paying a living wage) to show Jesus love to the hurting, the addicts, those who's minds have been ravaged by the enemy. Employ someone who will stand firm in Jesus and not be wavered through intimidation.
If you do live in a wealthy neighbourhood again open your own house, so those around you can come to where Jesus is and not be restricted by days and times(eg Sunday 10:30 to 12pm). Didn't Jesus say "it is easer for a camel to go through the needle gate than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom"? These people need just as much love as those who are poor, probably more so, the poor have nothing to loose except their lives, the wealthy have a lot to loose as well as their lives, and wealth blinds with "the cares of this world"
When the faithful meet together why should we do things our way, do we not trust Jesus to take control? I have heard it said "what is to stop some one coming in and making a mockery of the whole proceedings", Who's proceedings are they? Yours? or Christ's? We are all, ALL without exception supposed to come to the full maturity we are to have in Christ, as Paul said , "so we have no need of anyone to teach", Jesus is our teacher, the Holy Spirit the mouthpiece within us. If you don't think He can run his ecclesia the way He wants to then why are you a Christian? so you can run it?
It is a big step to make, to get out from under the authority that is not of Jesus. It feels safe to be controlled and told what to do, but in the end Jesus will look you in the eye and ask "Did you do as I commanded?" to turn round and say " I followed what the pastor/vicar/church leader said" will be no excuse. You have your own mind and heart, Jesus wants to interact with you direct, let Him.
To take this forward in any context within our lives means fessing up and taking responsibility for how we are and who we are in Christ. It means forgetting the buildings we call church and realising that Church, the ecclisia, the body of Christ, the bride of the Son of God is who we are.
mpaper453 almost has it down to a tee, in #24, but still sees the need for a preacher. The Holy Spirit is the teacher, Jesus will lead through His Spirit and with His Spirit will make known to us all we need to know.
The one who facilitates any gathering of the faithful has no authority except within themselves, as do all the faithful as they meet. If it is in a building directly constructed for that purpose, then those attending should know this and the costs of such should be shared around. Any excess should then be handed to those who's lives are hard for the lack of provision.
If you are getting together with the faithful to build such a building, first consider those people living around that area. Are they provided for, does anyone lack shelter, warmth or food (and I don't mean one meal), would it not be better to 'be Church' in your own house and provide a building or the habitation of those who can not afford one, so they will have an address and can start their lives with confidence and somewhere safe to sleep in and something to cook on and feed themselves?
If you happen to live in an affluent area, where money is of no concern and you want to erect a building for Jesus, just think first and challenge yourselves, if you have money to do this why not benefit others any way, Find an area where there is poverty and do something there, build a house of multiple occupancy and employ someone to take care of those who need it (paying a living wage) to show Jesus love to the hurting, the addicts, those who's minds have been ravaged by the enemy. Employ someone who will stand firm in Jesus and not be wavered through intimidation.
If you do live in a wealthy neighbourhood again open your own house, so those around you can come to where Jesus is and not be restricted by days and times(eg Sunday 10:30 to 12pm). Didn't Jesus say "it is easer for a camel to go through the needle gate than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom"? These people need just as much love as those who are poor, probably more so, the poor have nothing to loose except their lives, the wealthy have a lot to loose as well as their lives, and wealth blinds with "the cares of this world"
When the faithful meet together why should we do things our way, do we not trust Jesus to take control? I have heard it said "what is to stop some one coming in and making a mockery of the whole proceedings", Who's proceedings are they? Yours? or Christ's? We are all, ALL without exception supposed to come to the full maturity we are to have in Christ, as Paul said , "so we have no need of anyone to teach", Jesus is our teacher, the Holy Spirit the mouthpiece within us. If you don't think He can run his ecclesia the way He wants to then why are you a Christian? so you can run it?
It is a big step to make, to get out from under the authority that is not of Jesus. It feels safe to be controlled and told what to do, but in the end Jesus will look you in the eye and ask "Did you do as I commanded?" to turn round and say " I followed what the pastor/vicar/church leader said" will be no excuse. You have your own mind and heart, Jesus wants to interact with you direct, let Him.
L
aren't we each responsible before God?
sure judgement starts at the house of God, but He probably does not need all this help
strange thread
whatever happened to pray for those who despitefully use you and bless those who curse you?
seems to be a major case of I'm right and you are wrong hard at work around here
esteeming others WORSE than yourself might provide relief down here, but it does NOT wash with God Almighty
what would you say if I told you that God told me to write this?
well, you know, He did. His word states all that and I am just agreeing with Him
that's as good as prophecy any day...if you understand what prophecy actually is
sure judgement starts at the house of God, but He probably does not need all this help
strange thread
whatever happened to pray for those who despitefully use you and bless those who curse you?
seems to be a major case of I'm right and you are wrong hard at work around here
esteeming others WORSE than yourself might provide relief down here, but it does NOT wash with God Almighty
what would you say if I told you that God told me to write this?
well, you know, He did. His word states all that and I am just agreeing with Him
that's as good as prophecy any day...if you understand what prophecy actually is
I like the term delegated authority
The leaders in any christian group are called to be "servants", "humble", "forgiving", "patient" not forebaring or domineering.
God gives them this calling and truly communities need dedicated people who spend their full time meeting the communities needs. If you have ever seen the kinds of needs involved, you will know they can break a person without support and management.
What has been shown is churches often evaporate without this structure. So let us get real and dedicate ourselves to help and foster good communities, driven by love and service so that the gospel spreads and is understood.
And domination by anyone over another is not from the Lord. This has never been His way.
The leaders in any christian group are called to be "servants", "humble", "forgiving", "patient" not forebaring or domineering.
God gives them this calling and truly communities need dedicated people who spend their full time meeting the communities needs. If you have ever seen the kinds of needs involved, you will know they can break a person without support and management.
What has been shown is churches often evaporate without this structure. So let us get real and dedicate ourselves to help and foster good communities, driven by love and service so that the gospel spreads and is understood.
And domination by anyone over another is not from the Lord. This has never been His way.