Demon possession in the old testament?

[Edify]

here is what I am saying about Enoch:

According to a video done by Zachary Bauer, the Book of Enoch is the most quoted Book in the Bible and has over 200 quotes in the Old Testament and over 100 quotes in the New Testament...


Psalms (68 times)

Isaiah (55 times)

Deuteronomy (44 times)

Genesis (35 times)

Exodus (31 times)


Jesus quotes Enoch 8 separate times.

Paul, Peter, Jude, John all quote Enoch.


Enoch is Scripture and Inspired and quoted OVER 300 TIMES in the Bible!

That makes Enoch, the first 3 Sections, at least first 2, INSPIRED!

I usually like your posts, so don't think I'm harping on you.
The REAL problem with the book of Enoch is that it's way too young to validate.
Sure, there's a REAL book of Enoch(somewhere), but we can't prove by any means whether this younger version is a copy of the genuine. That's the reason probably that it's not in the Canon.

 

[Edify]

I got curious the other day, wondering if I could find any accounts of someone being possessed in the old testament, but came up emty. I have to assume it was happening, does anyone know of any reference to it before Mathew? There's accounts of sorcery multiple times and other demonic things. Are there accounts of possesion I don't know about?

While the OT doesn't say directly, it does indirectly. Examples: Moses vs. the magicians of Egypt, the witch of Endor, etc.
ANY OT person showing power not of God is possessed, because one would have to be to possess such power.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Good bible reference Speak Truth. 👍
The examples I've seen recently have been regurgitation of the "Sacred Name"/ Hebrew Roots blasphemies.

Thank you, the SPirit guides indeed! and yeah I dont classify with any of those groups because it seems to me all denomanatin all have their own divergence from the word, I try to just read it and accept it for what it says, YHWH left it here for us for that very reason.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I usually like your posts, so don't think I'm harping on you.
The REAL problem with the book of Enoch is that it's way too young to validate.
Sure, there's a REAL book of Enoch(somewhere), but we can't prove by any means whether this younger version is a copy of the genuine. That's the reason probably that it's not in the Canon.

I am not promoting it to be part of the Canon.
I am pointing out 300 Verses are used throughout the Bible that are direct quotes of Enoch's Oral Preaching.
And God felt it necessary for other Writers to write these sayings down into over 300 Verses.
That makes what Enoch said to be Inspired.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Post #21 you are speaking of the book of Enoch. Again.
Despite denying the fact by saying you only speak of the man...
... you mention the book of Enoch again in same post. That is at least three times.

Anyways, despite your denials and arguments in favour of accepting to book of Enoch as inspired, the facts
from the historical record show that the book of Enoch was never considered inspired or part of Jewish Scriptures.

So, you cannot REFUTE the 300 VERSES God used of Enoch so lets argue over me typing Book of Enoch over in same Post that the definition of Enoch is listed as Book of Enoch...yep, I get it!

 

[Clayman]

The apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12, but that does not mean we should give any
additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude 1:14–15. Jude quoting
from the Book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All
it means is that particular passage of Enoch is true. It is interesting to note that no scholars believe
the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch in the Bible. Enoch was seven generations
from Adam, prior to the flood (Genesis 5:1–24). Evidently, though, the words Jude quotes were genuinely
something that Enoch prophesied—or the Bible would not attribute it to him: “Enoch, the seventh from
Adam, prophesied about these men” (Jude 1:14). This saying of Enoch was somehow handed down through
the generations and eventually recorded in the Book of Enoch, which is a pseudepigraphon, because claims
that the book of Enoch was written by Enoch are unfounded. source

Exactly, which is why I have a huge dislike for the book of Enoch, Jude Quotes the man Enoch the seventh from Adam, in another words we are told so we know for sure its a direct quote from the man, there are so many discrepancies about the book of Enoch, even when it was written, it seems to be a book that tries to mimic the bible and fails miserably, a fair portion seems to be written 1st and second century, and multiple authors, and fix ups can and most likely mean it could have been amended right up to the 5th century, which means it is more likely to me, that it copied Jude not the that Jude quoted it.

We are warned to keep away from fables and myths which is why I steer clear of the book of Enoch, and it makes me sad to see people with such zeal and passion for such a mish mash of writings, I wish they had the same for the actual inspired writings, the bible.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Evil will conseal evil and the ignorant are useful. I try not to go off other peoples work, but rather seach out for myself, before I ever look at anyone else claims, I think this helps not to get false ideas in ones head. Besides if the SPirit can lead to truth, why not go to the SPirit of YHWH rather than man...

it's a matter of Enoch has been discussed and by same people, with exception missing a couple who haven't found this Thread yet. But, you learn their responses because they have claimed their beliefs. Which is why I mentioned Line of Seth, because, they claimed it to be a Doctrine they believe.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Exactly, which is why I have a huge dislike for the book of Enoch, Jude Quotes the man Enoch the seventh from Adam,

you do realize the 300 Verses that Quote Enoch, are quoting the Seventh from Adam?

 

[SpeakTruth101]

it's a matter of Enoch has been discussed and by same people, with exception missing a couple who haven't found this Thread yet. But, you learn their responses because they have claimed their beliefs. Which is why I mentioned Line of Seth, because, they claimed it to be a Doctrine they believe.

The text literally says "sons of Elohim"

Genesis 6:4, 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of Elohim came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, the men of name."

Genesis 6:4, 4 הַנְּפִלִ֞ים H5303»There were giants הָי֣וּ H1961»were on בָאָרֶץ֮ H776»in the earth בַּיָּמִ֣ים H3117»in those days הָהֵם֒ H1992»[children] to them the same וְגַ֣ם H1571»and also אַֽחֲרֵי־ H310»and also after כֵ֗ן H3651»that אֲשֶׁ֨ר H834»when יָבֹ֜אוּ H935»came in בְּנֵ֤י H1121»the sons הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ H430»of God אֶל־ H413»to בְּנ֣וֹת H1323»unto the daughters הָֽאָדָ֔ם H120»of men וְיָלְד֖וּ H3205»and they bare לָהֶ֑ם H0» הֵ֧מָּה H1992»Those הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים H1368»[became] mighty men אֲשֶׁ֥ר H834»who מֵעוֹלָ֖ם H5769»which [were] of old אַנְשֵׁ֥י H376»men הַשֵּֽׁם׃ H8034»of renown פ» "

#H1121 - ben: son, Original Word: בֵּן, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: ben, Phonetic Spelling: (bane), Short Definition: sons

#H430 - elohim: God, god, Original Word: אֱלֹהִים, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: elohim, Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem'), Short Definition: God

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The text literally says "sons of Elohim"

Genesis 6:4, 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of Elohim came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, the men of name."

Genesis 6:4, 4 הַנְּפִלִ֞ים H5303»There were giants הָי֣וּ H1961»were on בָאָרֶץ֮ H776»in the earth בַּיָּמִ֣ים H3117»in those days הָהֵם֒ H1992»[children] to them the same וְגַ֣ם H1571»and also אַֽחֲרֵי־ H310»and also after כֵ֗ן H3651»that אֲשֶׁ֨ר H834»when יָבֹ֜אוּ H935»came in בְּנֵ֤י H1121»the sons הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ H430»of God אֶל־ H413»to בְּנ֣וֹת H1323»unto the daughters הָֽאָדָ֔ם H120»of men וְיָלְד֖וּ H3205»and they bare לָהֶ֑ם H0» הֵ֧מָּה H1992»Those הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים H1368»[became] mighty men אֲשֶׁ֥ר H834»who מֵעוֹלָ֖ם H5769»which [were] of old אַנְשֵׁ֥י H376»men הַשֵּֽׁם׃ H8034»of renown פ» "

#H1121 - ben: son, Original Word: בֵּן, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: ben, Phonetic Spelling: (bane), Short Definition: sons

#H430 - elohim: God, god, Original Word: אֱלֹהִים, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: elohim, Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem'), Short Definition: God

וַיִּרְא֤וּ בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם כִּ֥י טֹבֹ֖ת הֵ֑נָּה וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר בָּחָֽרוּ׃
the [males among the] divine beings saw how pleasing the human women were and took wives from among those who delighted them.

here's the Enoch [[Oral Tradition]] in written format:
And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

וַיִּרְא֤וּ בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם כִּ֥י טֹבֹ֖ת הֵ֑נָּה וַיִּקְח֤וּ לָהֶם֙ נָשִׁ֔ים מִכֹּ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר בָּחָֽרוּ׃
the [males among the] divine beings saw how pleasing the human women were and took wives from among those who delighted them.

here's the Enoch [[Oral Tradition]] in written format:
And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men.

what Jude says:
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 ...which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.


Jude covers 3 things here in connection to Enoch 7th from Adam: the Second Coming of Christ, Genesis 6 and Angels + them in Hell over it.

And ALL of these are in the Oral Tradition of ENOCH.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

And of Course, Enoch, 7th from Adam, is in direct connection to Daniel 9-12, Ezekiel 38, Matthew 24, Luke, Peter, Jude, Revelation in the Apocalypse.

by Oral Tradition.

These Traditions were happening [before] Solomon built the first ever Temple of God.

from Jude:
14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.

from Enoch:
9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones. To execute judgement upon all,. And to destroy all the ungodly....>

 

[Cameron143]

what Jude says:
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 ...which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.


Jude covers 3 things here in connection to Enoch 7th from Adam: the Second Coming of Christ, Genesis 6 and Angels + them in Hell over it.

And ALL of these are in the Oral Tradition of ENOCH.

You left out part of verse 7 that changes the whole meaning.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You left out part of verse 7 that changes the whole meaning.

it doesn't change it, it confirms how strange it was what the angels did, it was equally as unnatural as 2 men being intimate.

 

[Cameron143]

it doesn't change it, it confirms how strange it was what the angels did, it was equally as unnatural as 2 men being intimate.

The comparison is to their eternal estates.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The comparison is to their eternal estates.

the Comparison is to the Sexual Sin Committed: 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire

the key here is: which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire

which "likewise" they did similar sexual things in the form of being UNNATURAL in what they did

which likewise means they both committed Same Sins!

 

[FollowingtheWay]

I think you have to look closer especially at what may have been at work behind things like this. The witch of Endor clearly had to be using demonic spirits to conjure the spiritual realm for this to work.

“He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.” “There is one in Endor,” they said. So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.” But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?” Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.” Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.” “What does he look like?” he asked. “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.” Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today.”
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭28‬:‭6‬-‭18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Cameron143]

the Comparison is to the Sexual Sin Committed: 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire

the key here is: which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire

which "likewise" they did similar sexual things in the form of being UNNATURAL in what they did

which likewise means they both committed Same Sins!

In like manner refers to the cities around Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I think you have to look closer especially at what may have been at work behind things like this. The witch of Endor clearly had to be using demonic spirits to conjure the spiritual realm for this to work.

“He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.” “There is one in Endor,” they said. So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.” But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?” Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.” Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.” “What does he look like?” he asked. “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.” Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today.”
‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭28‬:‭6‬-‭18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We know God used this to basically tell Saul his days are numbered. But the witch herself, she believed, she could do this. So agreed, she was most likely possessed.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

In like manner refers to the cities around Sodom and Gomorrah.

we're done.
i took your advice once, but i won't debate something who blatantly has to overlook the obvious to continue a false belief!