Did Adam sin brought Physical or Spiritual death???

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#22
I believe he makes a great point using scripture. Just to add, when we are born again through the gospel, there is a circumcision that takes place, the cutting away of the soul from the dying body. As he stated, our bodies will be changed to immortal, incorruptible bodies and our souls will be reunited with our changed bodies that we may live forever with the Lord as He intended from the beginning.
This helps me understand, why Jesus said " let the dead bury their dead"...
Coz we are all subject to death...we are as dead meat...
But in Christ we have chance of new body that is incorruptible...at resurrection.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,719
2,148
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#23
This helps me understand, why Jesus said " let the dead bury their dead"...
Coz we are all subject to death...we are as dead meat...
But in Christ we have chance of new body that is incorruptible...at resurrection.
Amen! What a Savior!

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#24
Amen! What a Savior!

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Now look, with the video in mind...and the verses quoted...
This is but a lovely poetry...
Mortality will be swallowed up at resurrection and we will be clothed with the new body...
Absent in the body is definitely for believers present with the Lord.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
#26
What support do you have for spiritual death?
Separation from each other . One returns to the dust of the field as rudiments of this corrupted world .The other the corrupted spirit returns to the father of all spirit life who gave it temporally subject to the letter of the law. "thou shalt not"

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Those who have been freely given a new born again spirit and ne heart as the seat of desire .they will rise on the last day and receive the goal of their faith a new body that will never die or grow old.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#27
Separation from each other . One returns to the dust of the field as rudiments of this corrupted world .The other the corrupted spirit returns to the father of all spirit life who gave it temporally subject to the letter of the law. "thou shalt not"

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Those who have been freely given a new born again spirit and ne heart as the seat of desire .they will rise on the last day and receive the goal of their faith a new body that will never die or grow old.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The spirit is not subject of the law...even gentiles who do not have the law have spirit...
To understand ecc 12:7... change the spirit to breath of life as it was originally in genesis.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#28
What support do you have for spiritual death?
1st Some background

Topic: Soul, "nepes" noun- self, will, emotions, mind person.

Topic: Spirit,"pneuma" noun, signifies (a) "breath, the breath of life," (b) "wind," "spirit," "breath."

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole "spirit and soul and body" be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: We are spirit, soul & body)

Man is spirit with a soul that lives in a body

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the "dividing asunder of soul and spirit", and of the joints and marrow,
(NOTE: Man can't physically see nor separate soul or spirit, GOD CAN)

John 4:24 (A) God is a spirit.

Gen 2:7 God breathed His life giving spirit, into mans body & man became a living soul.
(NOTE: Man is only a "living soul" in relation to & in conjunction with the body. When the body dies & the two are no longer one. Yet, spirit/soul continue to live on)

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 16:26 & Mk 8:36 What would it profit a man. To gain the whole world & lose his soul. (NOTE: A soul/spirit can be lost).

Our choices in this life will determine whether our spirit/soul spend eternity in the presents of God our creator. Or eternity seperated from God our creator.

Physical death is the separation of the soul/spirit from the body

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Your Question: What support do you have for spiritual death?

Spiritual death is the separation from God's presents

Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
(NOTE: We are seperated/alienated from the life of God via sin.)

Gen 2:16-17 God warns Adam about sin.

Gen 3:8 God is walking thru the garden to fellowship/commun with Adam, hiding daily due to his sin.

Gen 3:23 God exiles Adam from the Garden & His presents. RIGHT HERE Adam die's a spiritual death.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(NOTE: Faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection can quickens/makes us SPIRITUALLY alive. And now thru Jesus we can boldly stand in God's presents Heb 4:16)

I believe Adam did IN FACT die spiritually & physically """in the day""" he ate the friut

Scripture's teach:
Ps 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
NOTE: In Gods sight a day 1000 years is like yesterday = 1 day)

2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(NOTE: With the Lord, 1 day is like 1000 years)

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. (Adam died 930 yrs old)

Even though Adam lived to be 930. He did in fact, die """IN THE DAY""" he ate the fruit.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,719
2,148
113
#29
1st Some background

Topic: Soul, "nepes" noun- self, will, emotions, mind person.

Topic: Spirit,"pneuma" noun, signifies (a) "breath, the breath of life," (b) "wind," "spirit," "breath."

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole "spirit and soul and body" be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: We are spirit, soul & body)

Man is spirit with a soul that lives in a body

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the "dividing asunder of soul and spirit", and of the joints and marrow,
(NOTE: Man can't physically see nor separate soul or spirit, GOD CAN)

John 4:24 (A) God is a spirit.

Gen 2:7 God breathed His life giving spirit, into mans body & man became a living soul.
(NOTE: Man is only a "living soul" in relation to & in conjunction with the body. When the body dies & the two are no longer one. Yet, spirit/soul continue to live on)

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matt 16:26 & Mk 8:36 What would it profit a man. To gain the whole world & lose his soul. (NOTE: A soul/spirit can be lost).

Our choices in this life will determine whether our spirit/soul spend eternity in the presents of God our creator. Or eternity seperated from God our creator.

Physical death is the separation of the soul/spirit from the body

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Your Question: What support do you have for spiritual death?

Spiritual death is the separation from God's presents

Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
(NOTE: We are seperated/alienated from the life of God via sin.)

Gen 2:16-17 God warns Adam about sin.

Gen 3:8 God is walking thru the garden to fellowship/commun with Adam, hiding daily due to his sin.

Gen 3:23 God exiles Adam from the Garden & His presents. RIGHT HERE Adam die's a spiritual death.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(NOTE: Faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection can quickens/makes us SPIRITUALLY alive. And now thru Jesus we can boldly stand in God's presents Heb 4:16)

I believe Adam did IN FACT die spiritually & physically """in the day""" he ate the friut

Scripture's teach:
Ps 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
NOTE: In Gods sight a day 1000 years is like yesterday = 1 day)

2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(NOTE: With the Lord, 1 day is like 1000 years)

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. (Adam died 930 yrs old)

Even though Adam lived to be 930. He did in fact, die """IN THE DAY""" he ate the fruit.
The spirit returns to the Lord, the giver of life. The soul lives eternally. If the spirit dies, the body dies. If the their spirit died that day, their body would have died that day.

I don’t see in Scripture where the spirit ever dies. When a lost man dies, his spirit returns to the Lord. It’s not dead.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#30
The spirit returns to the Lord, the giver of life. The soul lives eternally. If the spirit dies, the body dies. If the their spirit died that day, their body would have died that day.

I don’t see in Scripture where the spirit ever dies. When a lost man dies, his spirit returns to the Lord. It’s not dead.
Hi John,
You may be right. Before conversion we are dead spiritually, yet we have life in us. So, in that sense the spirit can die. Also, we have those that are never regenerated going into eternal separation. I not absolutely sure exactly how that plays out either. True the angels that rebelled face will face eternal torment.

Luke 17:29 29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
(Note: Here we see then ALL destroyed)

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(NOTE: Here we know the cities aren't still on fire. Yet, their eternal judgment is final)

Any help with some scriptural clarity would be appreciated. Thx FD
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#31
Hi John,
You may be right. Before conversion we are dead spiritually, yet we have life in us. So, in that sense the spirit can die. Also, we have those that are never regenerated going into eternal separation. I not absolutely sure exactly how that plays out either. True the angels that rebelled face will face eternal torment.

Luke 17:29 29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
(Note: Here we see then ALL destroyed)

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(NOTE: Here we know the cities aren't still on fire. Yet, their eternal judgment is final)

Any help with some scriptural clarity would be appreciated. Thx FD
Please watch the video in the OP.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#32
Please watch the video in the OP.
Hi watcher,
I saw the thread headline & responded with my opinion. One of what will be many I'm sure. The short answer without any scripture support is: Spiritual death is the separation from God's presents.

I'm not interested in watching the video. Best wishes, FD
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#33
Hi watcher,
I saw the thread headline & responded with my opinion. One of what will be many I'm sure. The short answer without any scripture support is: Spiritual death is the separation from God's presents.

I'm not interested in watching the video. Best wishes, FD
Spiritual death is not biblically supported.it is just a myth.
How can you separate from God presence. GOD IS OMNIPRESENT.

Basically.
Body goes back to dust. It dies
Spirit (breath of life goes back to God)

Spirit dont die.
Angels are ministering spirits, and yet those who sin are not dead...they are not spiritually dead...
Those spirits/angels who sinned are kept in lowest darkness and still alive...for they are immortal.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#34
Spiritual death is not biblically supported.it is just a myth.
How can you separate from God presence. GOD IS OMNIPRESENT.

Basically.
Body goes back to dust. It dies
Spirit (breath of life goes back to God)

Spirit dont die.
Angels are ministering spirits, and yet those who sin are not dead...they are not spiritually dead...
Those spirits/angels who sinned are kept in lowest darkness and still alive...for they are immortal.
Ok, we disagree no harm no foul. Scripture teachs, for some there are 2 deaths For others just one.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If it's as simple as you say: Our body dies & our spirit goes back to God.

How would you reconcile these two verses?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#35
Ok, we disagree no harm no foul. Scripture teachs, for some there are 2 deaths For others just one.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If it's as simple as you say: Our body dies & our spirit goes back to God.

How would you reconcile these two verses?
resurrection of the wicked...both body and soul destroyed in the lake of fire...
If you have watched the video...this question was discuss in there.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#36
Ok, we disagree no harm no foul. Scripture teachs, for some there are 2 deaths For others just one.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If it's as simple as you say: Our body dies & our spirit goes back to God.

How would you reconcile these two verses?
Let me just add;
1. 1st death - disobedience by adam
2. 2nd death - disobedience by individual (judged according to their works)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#37
Spiritual death is not biblically supported.it is just a myth.
How can you separate from God presence. GOD IS OMNIPRESENT.

Basically.
Body goes back to dust. It dies
Spirit (breath of life goes back to God)

Spirit dont die.
Angels are ministering spirits, and yet those who sin are not dead...they are not spiritually dead...
Those spirits/angels who sinned are kept in lowest darkness and still alive...for they are immortal.

Hello again Watcher,
This will be my last post in this thread. Feel free to email me privately if you'd like to futher this conversation

KJV Dictionary Definition: quicken

1. Primarily, to make alive; to vivify; to revive or resuscitate, as from death or an inanimate state. s.

2. To make alive in a spiritual sense; he quickened you, who were dead in trespasses and sins. Eph. .

QUICK'ENEDp.

1. Made alive; revived; vivified; reinvigorated.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Quicken

1) to make alive: See LIFE, C.

2) "to quicken together with, make alive with" (sun, "with" and No. 1), is used in Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.

WATCHER, Both Bible dictionary's define quicken & quickened as: to make alive, revive or resuscitate, as from death or an inanimate state. Both dictionary's go futher and scecify spititually.

Both these Epistles that Vines & KJV dictionatys name are written to believers.
Eph 1:1 to the saints & faithful in Christ.

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse,

The quicken & quickened mentioned in both dictionary's. Is NOT applicable to non-believers. Non-believers havn't been quicken or quickened =made alive, revived or resuscitated, as from SPIRITUAL.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: Like Adam, due to our sin. We WERE dead spiritually Ad when Christ fills/quickens us with Spirit wew are born again.
Eph 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(MY NOTE: Christ has made believers alive spiritually. Clearly we WERE dead spiritually)

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#38
Hello again Watcher,
This will be my last post in this thread. Feel free to email me privately if you'd like to futher this conversation

KJV Dictionary Definition: quicken

1. Primarily, to make alive; to vivify; to revive or resuscitate, as from death or an inanimate state. s.

2. To make alive in a spiritual sense; he quickened you, who were dead in trespasses and sins. Eph. .

QUICK'ENEDp.

1. Made alive; revived; vivified; reinvigorated.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Quicken

1) to make alive: See LIFE, C.

2) "to quicken together with, make alive with" (sun, "with" and No. 1), is used in Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.

WATCHER, Both Bible dictionary's define quicken & quickened as: to make alive, revive or resuscitate, as from death or an inanimate state. Both dictionary's go futher and scecify spititually.

Both these Epistles that Vines & KJV dictionatys name are written to believers.
Eph 1:1 to the saints & faithful in Christ.

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse,

The quicken & quickened mentioned in both dictionary's. Is NOT applicable to non-believers. Non-believers havn't been quicken or quickened =made alive, revived or resuscitated, as from SPIRITUAL.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(MY NOTE: Like Adam, due to our sin. We WERE dead spiritually Ad when Christ fills/quickens us with Spirit wew are born again.
Eph 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(MY NOTE: Christ has made believers alive spiritually. Clearly we WERE dead spiritually)

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Thank uou for the offer, but i think the video in the OP is enuf for tuis topic.
To understand more about our salvation.
Did Jesus died physically or spiritually?
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
1,366
814
113
#39
What support do you have for spiritual death?
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

We, through Adam, are dead in our sins, and will go on to spiritual death if we don't believe on Christ, who raises us and gives us spiritual life.

Colossians 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#40
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

We, through Adam, are dead in our sins, and will go on to spiritual death if we don't believe on Christ, who raises us and gives us spiritual life.

Colossians 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
See how this doctrine of spiritual death belittle the death of Christ.

1. Buried with him- when was Jesus buried??? Were you alive at that time?
2. Quickened with him- were quickened with him at that time.

Understanding that death came in, is one of the key.
Adam live 930 years but could have lived forever.
Death came in so he died.
Again going back to basic.
Body dies return to dust.
Spirit return to God.
Adam sin and he died...its not spiritual separation...he actually died.
1. Christ taste death for everyman, and through baptism we are (poetry) buried with him.
2. Christ - 1Co 15:45 KJV And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit...
Christ died because his body was made of flesh...
He was made a quickening spirit when he raised from the dead.
We will also be quickened at his coming.
1Co 15:44 KJV It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.