Did Jesus consider himself God?

[bornofgod]

We worship the living God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,


Jesus Himself made this clear ;

, Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23

Equla honor equals equal worth.


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26

To have life in Himself proves that He has The prerogative given only to God.

Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58 The claim to be the I AM was a specific claim to be YHWH


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9

To have seen Jesus was to have SEEN the Father. He therefore had ALL the attributes of the Father,


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19

The NT writers agreed.:


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).




And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

The Bible doesn't know whether or not a liar is reading it. It doesn't know that religious heathens wrote and produce the New Testament by adding their Jewish traditions, laws and other pagan teachings to it. Those who believe the Bible is the Word of the Lord will be deceived by it.

The only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commandments as He had his prophets write many times.

Deuteronomy 28:
1: And if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.
2: And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 30:
1: "And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God has driven you,
2: and return to the LORD your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you this day, with all your heart and with all your soul;

Jeremiah 7:
23: But this command I gave them, `Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.'

Jeremiah 11:
4: which I commanded your fathers when I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Listen to my voice, and do all that I command you. So shall you be my people, and I will be your God,
5: that I may perform the oath which I swore to your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as at this day." Then I answered, "So be it, LORD."
6: And the LORD said to me, "Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: Hear the words of this covenant and do them.
7: For I solemnly warned your fathers when I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, warning them persistently, even to this day, saying, Obey my voice.

John 18:
37: Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice."

John 10:
3: To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4: When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5: A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

 

[bluto]

Ok. First, traps only work if there's a way to be caught so if you have nothing to be worried about why be concerned about traps? Second, perhaps there wouldn't be so much sin, if the laws of Moses were not made inactive according to what you believe. I've already stated that God's law is perfect. Remaining in ignorance after the truth has been revealed is denying God. I am not blaming God 4 abandoning us I am blaming man and his ignorance in recognizing that we are not in the favor of God it is clear in my statements that was what I said. Twisting words that are plainly stated out of righteousness in faith to make them look like something else is exactly what Satan does. The fact that Jesus said he did not come to change God's law is plain enough to me to find that whatever Jesus said or did afterward, would not have done so. Those that believe otherwise are denying God which explains the presence of satan in your heart. If that truth offends satan, so be it.

Why thomas are you putting words in my mouth that I never said or even intimated? You said this, "Second, perhaps there wouldn't be so much sin, if the laws of Moses were not made inactive according to what you believe." I never said no such thing that the laws of Moses were made inactive according to what I believe.

On the contrary, because Jesus Christ said this at Matthew 5:17,18, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fufill. vs18, For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished."

Secondly, this is what the Apostle Paul stated at Galatians 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor, (why thomas?) to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." Nobody thomas is justified by keeping the Law of Moses, i.e the ten commandents. If we were required to keep the law there would be no need for Jesus Christ to die on that cross.

And I note that the site you gave that says we should join hands with "allah" and the koran what law do you think they want us to keep? Does "Sharia Law" ring a bell? I also don't need you to lecture me on Satan and his devices and he is not in my heart, Jesus Christ is in my heart. Do you really think the truth offends Satan?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Angela53510]

Hi and thank you for your insight and for basically calling me dumb lol. Super Christian of you. No worries, it's kind of been common in this forum. For the saved, confident and righteous, I guess it's ok to love thy neighbor using malice and not consider that a sin. I am also a fellow Christian. I would appreciate equal respect to be one on top of being human.

What I was trying to do was prove that what I was seeing (in this so called cult site) was actually true as a means to explain why God is letting these evil politicians and unjust laws and racial hatred and general malice of the world reign supreme. The references in my prior threads give a clear impression that Jesus is not God but rather the Son of God since the Father is God. Can't have two Gods. An example would be the following...

Eph
1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Christ the Saviour, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [things] in Christ:

If you look at scripture, you see the text sometimes very clearly indicating two distinct Spirits this way and I am looking for evidence that can't be refuted as opinion or teaching by man. Believe they are One if you want but what would you offer as an explanation as to why you think we are not being saved from our oppressors? Do you think He wants us all to die by satan's hand?

This (so called cult site) reasons that in times where Israel needed rescuing it was because they wondered from His ways. Since HIS law is perfect, the issue is something we are not doing. I don't feel like sitting back and waiting to find out what that is.

It makes all the difference in the world to know THAT truth. Many have tried to reason as you have and rightfully so, blind faith is what Satan would want. Surprisingly, there is a lot of trust given to a man these days given the human condition right now. Most of us lock our doors at night but then leave our salvation to the whim of a stranger. If your beliefs regarding this are based on 'that is the standard understanding of the church' (who is corrupt), then don't you think it's prudent to be confident about it STUDY the writings for yourself?

I am not one to believe that God in all his wisdom is going to make it tricky to understand so when it says "God and the Father of our Lord Jesus" That's two until someone shows me a picture that God made depicting otherwise. Also no one has considered that the word LORD could be like a title similar to the word Duke etc, who really knows what a LORD God is except God. Just because Jesus is defined as the Lord God, you can not just assume it means he can change GOD's laws. It is a reasonable question to ask and something a child might one the adults in this forum but so far the only proof given to me is opinion based. In addition in the OT, God refers to himself as the 'I AM' and never says anything about His Father. When Jesus shows up and and says he's the Son of God and mentions having a Father (the I AM) and we're just supposed to assume they are One in the same?
Jesus may have said he and his Father are One in the same for our sake, but worship wise, I want be sure he wasn't just talking about him having all the power and authority of his Father not realizing people would think God and Jesus are the same God. Arrogance is our downfall. No one seems to get that.

First, calling out a heretic who has come here with the express purpose of leading people astray is what God calls us to do.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8-9

"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." 2 Cor. 11:4

You claim to be a Christian, yet you refuse to acknowledge the deity of Christ. You ask for proof and I post two long and very serious replies which shows that Jesus is God and how obvious it is in the Greek and Hebrew, and not only do you not reply, you accuse me of calling you dumb? Ignorant of the Bible, yes, a deceiver whose goal is to trick and trap people into reading the garbage of that website and ministry you posted, ok! But I did not say dumb!

Unless you got overwhelmed by the Greek, and that made you feel dumb? Certainly as Bluto pointed out, I felt pretty dumb that I was trusting enough to think you were sincerely seeking answers, instead of wanting to trick people into believing some stupid heretical nonsense. So maybe I was not stupid, as much as naive. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... Well, we won't go there.

So please go back and read what I wrote. Jesus is God - the God, not some polytheistic secondary god, but rather the same substance as the Father and the Holy Spirit, but different natures or persons.

Even if what I wrote is too difficult for you to understand, that doesn't make you dumb. It makes you ignorant. If you have never studied Greek or Hebrew, it would make it hard to understand what I wrote. And I wrote it out of my years of training, study and experience. Especially the original languages and a good knowledge of theology. Right now, I am working on intermediate Greek as a prerequisite to get into a Ph.D program to study theology. Some days, I feel like God is calling me to use an understanding of theology to counter heresies and cults like you are in.

Anyway, I hope you will go back and read my two posts, and then give me an answer, preferably using Greek or at least context. And using prepositions like "of" in Eph. 1:3 to prove Jesus isn't God, is pretty pathetic. In the Greek, the word "of" doesn't exist. Instead it is the genitive case, and various types of prepositions could be used in that phrase, depending upon the type of genitive.

It could be a genitive of apposition, in which the nouns, God and Jesus are alternate names for each other. Or, it could be a genitive that is epexetical, in which provides a clarifying or explanatory identifier of the head noun.

However we do not have the means in the English language to make these distinctions and therefore we are forced to use clumsy prepositions like "of" when they are not there in the Greek.

In any case, the one thing I have learned in this forum, which even seminary did not teach me, is that you simply cannot make doctrine without an excellent knowledge of the original languages. Translations simply leave too much to chance, and mistakes. So my recommendation is before you come in here and start trying to trap people with your supposed "need to learn" and then move into accusation and then "proving" mode, that you need to go and study Greek and Hebrew for a few years. And hermeneutics! Then you will find out what the apostles and the Old Testament prophets were really saying.

If not, then take your heresy elsewhere. I am so done with people like you, with no training or background in theology or hermeneutics, let alone the original languages comes in here and starts pushing the most ridiculous website I have ever seen in my life. And don't give me some line about the Holy Spirit leading you. The Holy Spirit leads us in all truth. He does not lie, trap and trick, like you have tried to do.

No, you are not dumb, but you are completely deluded and lost!

 

[valiant]

The Bible doesn't know whether or not a liar is reading it. It doesn't know that religious heathens wrote and produce the New Testament by adding their Jewish traditions, laws and other pagan teachings to it. Those who believe the Bible is the Word of the Lord will be deceived by it.

The only way to the Truth is to listen to the voice of God and obey his commandments as He had his prophets write many times.

Deuteronomy 28:
1: And if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.
2: And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 30:
1: "And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God has driven you,
2: and return to the LORD your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you this day, with all your heart and with all your soul;

Jeremiah 7:
23: But this command I gave them, `Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.'

Jeremiah 11:
4: which I commanded your fathers when I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Listen to my voice, and do all that I command you. So shall you be my people, and I will be your God,
5: that I may perform the oath which I swore to your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as at this day." Then I answered, "So be it, LORD."
6: And the LORD said to me, "Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: Hear the words of this covenant and do them.
7: For I solemnly warned your fathers when I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, warning them persistently, even to this day, saying, Obey my voice.

John 18:
37: Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice."

John 10:
3: To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4: When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5: A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."

If you are saying you do not believe the New Testament then your blood be on your own head. I hear the voce of the Shepherd,

 

[garee]

The Bible doesn't know whether or not a liar is reading it.

That is if it was not the "living word" of God that does quicken our souls giving us simply ones his understating by faith as that which does understand you as you judge it, remembering. It judges the intents of your heart to see if you have the faith of Christ. as it is written or having it in respect to your own self as if you were the author of Christian faith..

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God is not dead or asleep. It cannot return void of the purpose he sends it. It can draw a person closer to our God or cause a separation driving them away, further and further.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

It doesn't know that religious heathens wrote and produce the New Testament by adding their Jewish traditions, laws and other pagan teachings to it. Those who believe the Bible is the Word of the Lord will be deceived by it.

Sounds like a judaizer always turning thing upside as if God had no understanding to offer through His word as it is written .

The clay(creation) is not the Potter that forms a god in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?


That kind of deception comes from those who believe not (no faith) .He calls them the forward generation the generation of Adam. They seek after lying signs and wonder as sign seekers.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

It’s never too late to believe God by have the faith of Christ as it is written. It’s the good news we call the gospel.