Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[PaulThomson]

Now I wish to test the "wisdom" of the NR in here. I'm going to quote two passages from another Wisdom Book of the bible and then ask a question about both both passages. Perhaps NR can vindicate themselves and prove to all how wise you really are. Here are the passages:

Job 1:6-12
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"

Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
NIV

And,

Job 2:1-6
2:1 On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"

Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."

4 "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."

6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
NIV

Assuming everyone knows what happened to Job as consequences of God's "permissive will", my question is simply this: Can any NR explain to me how God is not morally culpable for all the evil (deprivation of good) that befell Job?

One more thing. There's a proverb that goes like this: "Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds". This is your moment to shine, NR.

Most Reformed (R) are only Reformed to the level of dissenting 15th century Christendom. But they haven't reformed beyond that stage of spiritual growth. They are really Non-Reformed in the 21st Century. The question is "Are you a Reforming Christian?" Are you capable of growth; or have you handcuffed yourself to a theological canon assembled by a particular 15th century sect? So, Rufus, you as Non-Reforming (NR) as all others wedded intransigently to pre-2015 set-in-stone systems.

God is not culpable for what Satan and Midianite marauders wanted to do of their own volition. Evil is like vicious killer dogs on leashes. Job was like a man who built his house beyond the reach of wild animals God had leashed. He was living happily and raising a family unharried by those beasts held at bay. Job is serving God and is making offerings to God on behalf of his children, hoping God will keep those dogs out of range of His kids and possessions. Why aren't the children offering their own offerings? We are not told that Job's children love God. Maybe Job, over time, begins to conclude that it is his righteous living and acceptable offerings that are winning God's blessing.

Satan alleges that Job only serves God because God is meeting Job's expectations.. So God lengthens the leashes. He does not push the reluctant wolves closer to the family. The wolves merely follow their nature and go further out and consume everyone in their path. The wolves want to do that of their own volition. So the wolves go a hunting, as wolves do, and the wolves kill his children and their wives and grand kids. Job doesn't understand why this has happened, but he assumes God Himself has done this. "The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away." Job may unwittingly hold some proto-Calvinist ideas.. But Job continues to trust God.

Satan alleges that Job's continued trust in God is because he is really self-centred but that trust will collapse if the wolves get their teeth into him. God loosens the leashes enough for the wolves to clamp their jaws onto Job, but not enough that they can kill him. Now Job, with his proto-calvinist ideas of exhaustive divine determinism, does begin to blame God, accusing him of being unfair. "I know of nothing I have done to justify You setting these wolves on me. If I have, tell me what it is. If I could have an audience with You, I would be able to justify myself to You."

Only, God had not set the wolves on Job. He had simply lengthened the leashes, giving the wolves more freedom to do whatever was in their own hearts to do. Creatures brought evil into the world, not God. And creatures have to take responsibility to limit and repair the harm done by their sin. God stepping in and Himself limiting the damage evil can do, in a world that He had handed over to man to manage, is grace not a moral obligation . It is not earned. It is not something God must do to be righteous and good. Nothing could kill Job's soul. Only a renunciation of faith in God could truly kill Job. And that remained always in Job's hands: not God's, nor Satan's, nor demon's nor judgmental legalists' nor a traumatised wife's.

This is how God can allow evil to spread and to harm people, without God being morally culpable. This is how God is not morally culpable for all the evil (deprivation of good) that befell Job?

 

[Genez]

The Reformation was foundational and only a beginning to set things back in the right direction.

Christianity's thinking must keep growing and expanding in undferstanding. Not to be locked back in time like Muslims do.

 

[Mem]

Actually, if taken literally God told Adam, "To die (qal infinitive absolute) you shall be dying (qal imperfect) ". But our conclusion is the same.
On the day Adam ate of the tree, a process of slowly dying would begin which would end in complete death. It was not a proclamation that complete death would ensue on the day Adam ate.

By Adam, sin enter and death by sin. This makes me to wonder whether if Adam, indeed, brought about atrophy upon the universe.