Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 14, 2011
73,953
16,590
113
I have no issue with discussing anything in the Bible.

but, you are not simply discussing it. you are glorifying it, throwing out hints all over the place that we Christ followers should be keeping it.

and, as i asked you a few days ago, why can't we live the way the N.T. tells us?
there are plenty of instructional Scripture, why not focus on those?

and , i have stated to you several times, gentiles were never under the Law, never told to keep the Sabbath.

you have not commented on that either way.

you called Sabbath " a third rail issue" why/

gentiles were never told to keep it. why is that hard to say?
Has any of them answered what part the moral law has in making us christlike yet?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,269
9,928
113
75
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
This means no more bacon right guys?

Shouldn't we expect that an omniscient being would know how to convey his most important of all messages to his creation without all of this uncertainty, contradiction and interpretation?
Or shellfish. I have no uncertainty about to obey scripture.

I don't think anyone will argue with that. (y)
Oh, but they will. Trust me. giggle.gif
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,644
6,897
113
It is helpful to note that OT references to Ephraim after the dispersal or sifting into the nations in many instances refers to the collective tribes of the House of Israel or of the Northern Kingdom and not Ephraim alone.
That may be so, but ultimately Ephraim (Joseph) is treated as a distinct entity - a tribe among the 12 tribes of Israel. Just as Judah is treated as a distinct tribe.

EZEKIEL 38
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.


We need to see things from GOD'S PERSPECTIVE.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
That may be so, but ultimately Ephraim (Joseph) is treated as a distinct entity - a tribe among the 12 tribes of Israel. Just as Judah is treated as a distinct tribe.

EZEKIEL 38
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.


We need to see things from GOD'S PERSPECTIVE.

Absolutly! In fact each tribe is distinct except for Simeon and Levi. As Jacob put it;

Gen 49:5-7 NIV "Simeon and Levi are brothers— their swords are weapons of violence. (6) Let me not enter their council, let me not join their assembly, for they have killed men in their anger and hamstrung oxen as they pleased. (7) Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel.

Jer 31:20-22 NIV Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD. (21) "Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take. Return, O Virgin Israel, return to your towns. (22) How long will you wander, O unfaithful daughter? The LORD will create a new thing on earth— a woman will surround a man."
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yep, if they are the right kind. Why, is it not Kosher? :unsure:

Well, check this out:

Lev 19:23-25 KJV And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of. (24) But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be holy to praise the LORD withal. (25) And in the fifth year shall ye eat of the fruit thereof, that it may yield unto you the increase thereof: I am the LORD your God.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yep, if they are the right kind. Why, is it not Kosher? :unsure:

Many of the food prohibitions of the law dealt with food items that were unhealthy.

Interestingly when you used to buy trees from nurseries they would tell you not to eat the fruit for at least 3 years! Huh!
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Anyway, if they are bad for you and you don't grow your own, how do you know how may fruiting seasons the tree they came off of is? I guess you could look up the orchard and try to find out.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Interestingly, Israelites were notoriously fond of apples! Look it up. In fact many historians who follow their history note that you can almost trace their routs of migration by following the apple tree orchards! I have never confirmed it but some say the story of Johnny Appleseed was based on Israelites. Have you ever read that?
 
K

Karraster

Guest
Well, check this out:

Lev 19:23-25 KJV And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of. (24) But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be holy to praise the LORD withal. (25) And in the fifth year shall ye eat of the fruit thereof, that it may yield unto you the increase thereof: I am the LORD your God.
I observe the food laws as best I can, don't knowingly eat anything prohibited. It is getting tougher and tougher to do! Are you aware there is human hair in certain types of bread, like pizza dough and buns? Isn't that gross? Other even more disturbing things I won't mention...but as far as anything mentioned in the Word about "when you come into the land" I infer from that it is only pertaining to "when you come into the land". I believe that is something not possible for me to do. However, we have planted fruit trees and I have not eat from them yet, just in case I have interpreted this wrong, but buying fruit in the marketplace?, personally I do not worry about it in that regard, only about pesticides used. All JMO of course.:)
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,269
9,928
113
75
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Many of the food prohibitions of the law dealt with food items that were unhealthy.

Interestingly when you used to buy trees from nurseries they would tell you not to eat the fruit for at least 3 years! Huh!
Yeah, it is a basic horticulture practice. I think they pluck the fruit early in those years to add size to the trees. Like Karraster said above, just be aware of pesticides and GMOs. Buying organic is no guarantee the fruit is good. Main thing just pray God bless it first, and not to worry about things. Worry is just faithlessness. welcoming.png
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
I observe the food laws as best I can, don't knowingly eat anything prohibited. It is getting tougher and tougher to do! Are you aware there is human hair in certain types of bread, like pizza dough and buns? Isn't that gross? Other even more disturbing things I won't mention...but as far as anything mentioned in the Word about "when you come into the land" I infer from that it is only pertaining to "when you come into the land". I believe that is something not possible for me to do. However, we have planted fruit trees and I have not eat from them yet, just in case I have interpreted this wrong, but buying fruit in the marketplace?, personally I do not worry about it in that regard, only about pesticides used. All JMO of course.:)

It is prudent to keep the food laws...they are there as a loving reminder that our Heavenly Father cares to guide us towards healthy choices. Does He punish us for poor choices? I think we punish ourselves, physically, mentally which in turn may impact us Spiritually. I am pleased I am not alone in recognizing the wealth of this understanding.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yeah, it is a basic horticulture practice. I think they pluck the fruit early in those years to add size to the trees. Like Karraster said above, just be aware of pesticides and GMOs. Buying organic is no guarantee the fruit is good. Main thing just pray God bless it first, and not to worry about things. Worry is just faithlessness. View attachment 201382
It is proper to note that reasonable concern is not fear as much as it is prudence. :)
 
K

Karraster

Guest
It is prudent to keep the food laws...they are there as a loving reminder that our Heavenly Father cares to guide us towards healthy choices. Does He punish us for poor choices? I think we punish ourselves, physically, mentally which in turn may impact us Spiritually. I am pleased I am not alone in recognizing the wealth of this understanding.
I agree. That ingredient I was referring to, human hair in food, is called L-cysteine. Isn't that gross? I mean, what kind of mind thought about putting human hair in food we eat? That it's OK? That's just another example of how sick, twisted and depraved is the human mind that does not revere the Almighty's laws.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
I agree. That ingredient I was referring to, human hair in food, is called L-cysteine. Isn't that gross? I mean, what kind of mind thought about putting human hair in food we eat? That it's OK? That's just another example of how sick, twisted and depraved is the human mind that does not revere the Almighty's laws.
Thanks for the heads up on that! I will be looking into this one...Yuck! That is definitely in "tare"itory thinking.

There is definitly a class of human organisms (people) that have an affininty for evil over good, darkness over light, lawlessness over lawfulness (I'm sure the shortsighted will seize upon this one) and I have no doubt that they flourish only when there is an environment that is tolerant of sin. One way of looking at Grace is that it is Gods Olive Branch extended to the fallen to exit this system of pride and chaos (sin/lawlessness) and reenter His system of humility and order (righteousness/lawfulness) - His order. It is important to ask the question; What does His salvation "save" us from? Eternal damnation or Lawlessness? If you chose the first you may only have ever had "worldly sorrow", while if you chose the latter you were motivated by "Godly Sorrow" which leads to Repentance the gateway to restoration! Big smile K, even hair can segue us to the grace of God! :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,199
10,332
113
Now that's funny...not what I was driving at. more a male ego scenario to make a point. Didn't go off as I had hoped, no disrespect intended.
well, i happen to know a 7ft tall barbarian. he camps with a pirate crew at a renaissance fair we attend every year.
Who was the prodigal son? Judah was the brother who was jealous, who was with Him always.
Interesting/ thoughtful deliberation.


I am not trying to foul up the works with the question but the answer lies just a bit beyond the main detail noted in ;

Jer 3:8 NIV I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

So, we know when the kingdom of Israel (all 13 tribes) were divided after Solomon died, the one kingdom split into two kingdoms; North and South. The Northern "Kingdom of Israel" and the Southern "Kingdom of Judah". After some time, God gave the Northern Kingdom a writ of divorcement and sent them out of His house. The Northern kingdom of Israel refused to obey her Husband (God), think Covenant, so He had Hosea do the legal paperwork for the divorce. He then had the Assyrians remove her out of His house.

So, The Northern Kingdom of Israel, made up of Reuben, Simeon, Part of Levi, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun and Manasseh and Ephraim who were adopted by Jacob and essentially are called out in place of Joseph....were they under covenant after the divorce? No. However the southern Kingdom of Judah was. That Kingdom was made up of Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi. This was the status when Jesus was here.

Understanding this is important.

Who were the lost sheep? The Northern Tribes

Who was the prodigal son? Judah was the brother who was jealous, who was with Him always.

Who did Jesus come for? The lost sheep of the House of Israel.

The implications of this detail in many of the issues in the NT are immense.

Who were the treasure hidden in the field (the world)?

There are also implications in the OT Law which God will not violate; such as when a man divorces a wife and she remarries he may never marry her again!

So how, under what conditions may God remarry the Northern Kingdom of Israel whom He divorced and who took other gods (remarried)?
in Jeremiah, He says Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah - and tells Israel to return to Him, and He will take her back.
by the time Cyrus decreed that the Hebrews may return to rebuild Jerusalem, Assyria had been conquered by Babylon. in 1 Chronicles 9, "all Israel" is mentioned among the captives, and Manasseh & Ephraim are mentioned as returning. names recorded here, in Ezra and in Nehemiah can be traced back to northern tribes.

Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and He came to Israel to gather them ((unless we think He went to America to gather Cree & Navajo.. ??)) -- we had someone a few months ago telling us that "gentile" in the NT always refers only to Hebrews from the northern kingdom, and that everyone who is saved is genetically, ethnically Israelite. that's not what you're suggesting, is it?