Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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I suppose for someone whose desire is to justify their work at the law, no end of twisting of scripture is too far a stretch.
But, if you read scripture with understanding, equating Christ with the Law is too far a stretch.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
By understanding this scripture we can plainly see that there is a BIG difference between the letter and the Spirit.
By understanding that you should be able to see a BIG difference between Christ and the Law.
'Should'...
But, if you read scripture with understanding, equating Christ with the Law is too far a stretch.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
By understanding this scripture we can plainly see that there is a BIG difference between the letter and the Spirit.
By understanding that you should be able to see a BIG difference between Christ and the Law.
'Should'...
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The same law we have been talking about since this thread was opened.
Hosea 8
12 I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.
Or, this/these laws?
Romans 7
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
You'll never be able to "see" (the) "another law in my members."
According to the writer of Romans? There are TWO laws, eh?
Which one is you serve, eh? One? The other? Both?
Matthew 6
24 No man can serve two masters (LAWS): for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Who is Romans addressed to?
Actually you answered your own question. A Righteous person is deemed so by the appropriated work of Jesus. Is that it though?
Orgies okay?
embezzlement okay
Substance abuse okay?
Laziness okay?
Bearing false witness okay?
I know your answer is no, but is there no conscious effort or agreement to the abandonment or avoidance of these sins, and all of them?
Do you contend that you have no need to reflect on the light that the Holy Spirit shines on your carnal man?
What does that light illuminate? Sins against Gods will perhaps? If so do you consider these convictions and repent?
Each one of these points is important. Don't you think? If you are contending with those who desire to conform with convictions of the Holy Spirit they should know how you feel the process should go.
Yes there is an enormous difference between the letter and the Spirit! The letter without the Spirit is insufficient to bring a man to see the full meaning of Gods intent. Hence the man who is carnal who i looking at a written, Holy, just law (Torah) cannot interpret it and hence cannot keep it!
Actually you answered your own question. A Righteous person is deemed so by the appropriated work of Jesus. Is that it though?
Orgies okay?
embezzlement okay
Substance abuse okay?
Laziness okay?
Bearing false witness okay?
I know your answer is no, but is there no conscious effort or agreement to the abandonment or avoidance of these sins, and all of them?
Do you contend that you have no need to reflect on the light that the Holy Spirit shines on your carnal man?
What does that light illuminate? Sins against Gods will perhaps? If so do you consider these convictions and repent?
Each one of these points is important. Don't you think? If you are contending with those who desire to conform with convictions of the Holy Spirit they should know how you feel the process should go.
Yes there is an enormous difference between the letter and the Spirit! The letter without the Spirit is insufficient to bring a man to see the full meaning of Gods intent. Hence the man who is carnal who i looking at a written, Holy, just law (Torah) cannot interpret it and hence cannot keep it!
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Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
I think the major confusion, and sometimes I think it is on purpose, is the DIFFERENCE between the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death. The difference between the Ministration of the Spirit and the Ministration of Death and Condemnation written on stone. The difference between the Letter and the Spirit.
I do admit it is difficult sometimes to explain the difference. Especially to people who WANT to put everyone under the law of Moses. Although they will 'say' that is not their intention...
I think the major confusion, and sometimes I think it is on purpose, is the DIFFERENCE between the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death. The difference between the Ministration of the Spirit and the Ministration of Death and Condemnation written on stone. The difference between the Letter and the Spirit.
I do admit it is difficult sometimes to explain the difference. Especially to people who WANT to put everyone under the law of Moses. Although they will 'say' that is not their intention...
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E
That's you!
And all the people before you who tried to do the same!
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Righteousness doesn't come by a "spiritual" interpretation of the Law of Moses. Righteousness doesn't come by a person interpreting Torah and working to keep it.
A spiritual man knows this.
And all the people before you who tried to do the same!
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Righteousness doesn't come by a "spiritual" interpretation of the Law of Moses. Righteousness doesn't come by a person interpreting Torah and working to keep it.
A spiritual man knows this.
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And I suppose those who think assume others are trying to put the written law in a position of preeminence are predisposed to taking a often hostile attitude towards them.
Do you ever read the OT?
If yes then we are the same.
Do you ever see the wisdom in the Laws of God?
If yes then we are the same.
Do you reject the proposition that the works of the Law are sufficient for salvation?
If yes then we are the same.
If you have nothing more than suppositions and assumptions then please, go over to your mirror and give yourself a hard time!
E
I am on record as saying
1. Walk after the things of the spirit and you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh
What is walking in the spirit?
Gal 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [g]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
2. The law of love, Love God and Love your neighbor (all people) as yourself...
If I am doing these things, I do not have to worry about sin, Because by nature I will not sin.
if I am not doing these things, then I am in sin, Even if I am NOT breaking any of the ten commands.
So you see. I can obey the letter. But still be a sinner.. if I remember right, You liked when I said this a month ago.
1. Walk after the things of the spirit and you will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh
What is walking in the spirit?
Gal 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [g]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
2. The law of love, Love God and Love your neighbor (all people) as yourself...
If I am doing these things, I do not have to worry about sin, Because by nature I will not sin.
if I am not doing these things, then I am in sin, Even if I am NOT breaking any of the ten commands.
So you see. I can obey the letter. But still be a sinner.. if I remember right, You liked when I said this a month ago.
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I take a stand for the Truth of Christ. So others who have come to Christ and have received His Blessing of Rest know that there are others who understand a little about what that means.
Yes.
I see the work of the Holy Spirit commanded for men to fulfill in the 10 commandments.
But Gods Law is NOT that. Gods Law is NOT the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.
Gods Law is Life and Righteousness.
Yes.
It's more fun to argue with legalists.
Yes.
I see the work of the Holy Spirit commanded for men to fulfill in the 10 commandments.
But Gods Law is NOT that. Gods Law is NOT the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.
Gods Law is Life and Righteousness.
Yes.
If you have nothing more than suppositions and assumptions then please, go over to your mirror and give yourself a hard time!
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Where do they get instructions?
From the law of Christ (love)
Or the law of moses?
Why did Isreal. Who attempted to be moral by the law. Fail to meet that standard. Why was it unable to train them? Do you think Saul, who later became paul Really did not think of God first when he lived as he did, by following the law?
From the law of Christ (love)
Or the law of moses?
Why did Isreal. Who attempted to be moral by the law. Fail to meet that standard. Why was it unable to train them? Do you think Saul, who later became paul Really did not think of God first when he lived as he did, by following the law?
E
I read the OT in context.
I used the NT passages to put the OT in context.
F course I have tried to show you this many times, Yet you keep asking the same questions. Which is WHY I asked you to show me were I was wrong in what I said.
But once again,
If the NT says the law is NOT for a righteous person. That we obey by walking in the spirit. Which is different than walking by the law. And that we obey by the law of love, not the law of moses.
Where am I wrong?
I used the NT passages to put the OT in context.
F course I have tried to show you this many times, Yet you keep asking the same questions. Which is WHY I asked you to show me were I was wrong in what I said.
But once again,
If the NT says the law is NOT for a righteous person. That we obey by walking in the spirit. Which is different than walking by the law. And that we obey by the law of love, not the law of moses.
Where am I wrong?
You are correct, Grandpa! It is difficult trying to explain the difference!
Yet, are we not all striving in trying to give our creator, the Lord God, less reason to be grieved that He made man flesh? Yes? No?
Myself? I am not forcing anyone to put themselves under the law of Moses.
I'm just stating that which occurs, when one "walks with the Father, and His Priests", in one's "pressing on" to the High Calling of God, in Christ, and the lateral movements of God the Father, betweenst, the Son, and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Or? Perhaps, it is trying in the describing the "government" of God, on Christ's shoulders, as He "moves" in and out of Christ, and the Holy Spirit?
And? Like trying to explain a "war zone" to someone who has never been in a war zone?
To one that has? No explanation is necessary.
The other? No explanation is possible.
And, in the trying, by way of baring witness to these things, that I can't tell anyone the why, so much, concerning the laws of Moses, as I can only testify that I know it does!
And, believers tend to give the Father, the "short end of the stick", when they believe and teach that Jesus ABOLISHED "the law?"
Because the enemy has seduced so many in not believeing there "IS no "there" THERE!" Meaning the Father.
Trying to provide some insight, as to How things are going to operate on the "other" side of this earth/heaven age? WHEN? Jesus is NO LONGER carrying their cross/es FOR them?
Yet, are we not all striving in trying to give our creator, the Lord God, less reason to be grieved that He made man flesh? Yes? No?
Myself? I am not forcing anyone to put themselves under the law of Moses.
I'm just stating that which occurs, when one "walks with the Father, and His Priests", in one's "pressing on" to the High Calling of God, in Christ, and the lateral movements of God the Father, betweenst, the Son, and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Or? Perhaps, it is trying in the describing the "government" of God, on Christ's shoulders, as He "moves" in and out of Christ, and the Holy Spirit?
And? Like trying to explain a "war zone" to someone who has never been in a war zone?
To one that has? No explanation is necessary.
The other? No explanation is possible.
And, in the trying, by way of baring witness to these things, that I can't tell anyone the why, so much, concerning the laws of Moses, as I can only testify that I know it does!
And, believers tend to give the Father, the "short end of the stick", when they believe and teach that Jesus ABOLISHED "the law?"
Because the enemy has seduced so many in not believeing there "IS no "there" THERE!" Meaning the Father.
Trying to provide some insight, as to How things are going to operate on the "other" side of this earth/heaven age? WHEN? Jesus is NO LONGER carrying their cross/es FOR them?