Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Karraster

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More I think of it, that poly-cotton comment is an example of what the Pharisees did. They added more and more restrictions on top of the instructions of Almighty. They put a fence around the hedge...I'm not calling anyone a Pharisee, just pointing out my understanding of some things a Pharisee does.
 
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SimpleGardner

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Karraster said:
More I think of it, that poly-cotton comment is an example of what the Pharisees did. They added more and more restrictions on top of the instructions of Almighty. They put a fence around the hedge...I'm not calling anyone a Pharisee, just pointing out my understanding of some things a Pharisee does.
Click to expand...

Interesting...maybe some projecting going on here!
 
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gb9

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well, as I say this AGAIN- gentiles were never under the Law, and hence never commanded to keep the Sabbath. Paul himself said so in Romans 2.

now, as far as the Law-loving gardener goes, the I AM came down on the Mount of Transfiguration and said of the Son in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) " hear Him!
this elevates and separates the Words in Red above all other Scripture.

so, when Christ said " if you love Me, keep My Commands ", or :teach them all I have Commanded you ", he was referring to His words He spoke on earth, not the Torah.


and no, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath, that is a Judeaizer conspirercy theory.
 
K

Karraster

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...while it was yet dark....Biblica
  1. Mark 1:35 35Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed.
    John 20:1 1Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
    It wouldn't change my walk if I found out it happened on a Tuesday. However, scripture does say while it was yet dark. Sunday keepers say it was Sunday morning, all I know is while it was yet dark. I've not researched the Greek on these to see if it's the same words translated the same. Anybody know?

 
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SimpleGardner

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Karraster said:
More I think of it, that poly-cotton comment is an example of what the Pharisees did. They added more and more restrictions on top of the instructions of Almighty. They put a fence around the hedge...I'm not calling anyone a Pharisee, just pointing out my understanding of some things a Pharisee does.
Click to expand...
Do I confuse things? I mean they are projecting! :)
 
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SimpleGardner

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gb9 said:
well, as I say this AGAIN- gentiles were never under the Law, and hence never commanded to keep the Sabbath. Paul himself said so in Romans 2.

now, as far as the Law-loving gardener goes, the I AM came down on the Mount of Transfiguration and said of the Son in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) " hear Him!
this elevates and separates the Words in Red above all other Scripture.

so, when Christ said " if you love Me, keep My Commands ", or :teach them all I have Commanded you ", he was referring to His words He spoke on earth, not the Torah.


and no, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath, that is a Judeaizer conspirercy theory.
Click to expand...

The law existed prior to Siani because sin existed, but we see it in writing because there is a written contract, and Israel wasn't commanded!

Moses was commanded as He was God's servant. Moses was commanded to make the offer/

They took the deal, the arrangement, THE COVENANT!

Blessings or Cursings

Exo 19:8 KJV And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

VOLUNTARY entrance!

By the way gp something you should meditate on:

We are not sinners because we break the law!

We break the law because we are sinners!

The law was not the culprit! The sinner was/is!

Jesus's commands sum up all the Law. I go along with that! So it doesn't refute the law or contradict the law it encompasses the law. So if we agree to love our neighbor as our-self then we agree not to bear false witness right? Or covet our neighbors wife? Or commit adultery? Then we agree!

Not sure I know what you are referring to about Jesus rising on the Sabbath conspiracy. You mind sharing more?
 
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gb9

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SimpleGardner said:
The law existed prior to Siani because sin existed, but we see it in writing because there is a written contract, and Israel wasn't commanded!

Moses was commanded as He was God's servant. Moses was commanded to make the offer/

They took the deal, the arrangement, THE COVENANT!

Blessings or Cursings

Exo 19:8 KJV And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

VOLUNTARY entrance!

By the way gp something you should meditate on:

We are not sinners because we break the law!

We break the law because we are sinners!

The law was not the culprit! The sinner was/is!

Jesus's commands sum up all the Law. I go along with that! So it doesn't refute the law or contradict the law it encompasses the law. So if we agree to love our neighbor as our-self then we agree not to bear false witness right? Or covet our neighbors wife? Or commit adultery? Then we agree!

Not sure I know what you are referring to about Jesus rising on the Sabbath conspiracy. You mind sharing more?
Click to expand...
first of all, sin is much more than breaking the Law. it is missing the mark ( the actual definition of the word sin), knowing to do good and not doing so.


second, you did not address what happened on the mount of transfiguration , what The Father said to do with the Son's words.

third, I will explain the Sabbath thing if you state if gentiles were or are under the Law of Moses, and have to keep the Sabbath.
 
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SimpleGardner

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gb9 said:
first of all, sin is much more than breaking the Law. it is missing the mark ( the actual definition of the word sin), knowing to do good and not doing so.


second, you did not address what happened on the mount of transfiguration , what The Father said to do with the Son's words.

third, I will explain the Sabbath thing if you state if gentiles were or are under the Law of Moses, and have to keep the Sabbath.
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You are asking it those other that the israelites were under the law covenant? No
 
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eternally-gratefull

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SimpleGardner said:
I agree with your sentiment. If the Holy Spirit leads to an understanding and appreciation of Gods laws then focus on that as directed! :)
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The hs is not an author of confusion.

The HS wrote the law through moses, and called the law the ministry of death written on stone, he also had moses demand the people confirm they would obay every word (every jot and tittle so to speak) and had them understand that failure to do so would put each of them under a curse,

Why would the HS through paul say that the law was given and it sole purpose was to expose sin, expose our guilt, show how far from God we are, show the means of atonement, (shedding of blood) and lead us with this knowledge as a tutor or schoolmaster to the one who would redeem them, and has redeemed us? Only to contradict himself and say we need to understand the law in some other way?

Why would the HS through james say if we live our whole lif=ves and keep every jot and tittle of the law. Yet fail in even the smallest of points, we are found GUILTY of the whole law (thus according to moses and confirmed by Paul, we are cursed)
If something is trying help you understand the law in a y other way, it is not the HS, for once again, god is not the author of confusion
 
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eternally-gratefull

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SimpleGardner said:
Did anyone read what I wrote earlier?

There are three stages to our WALK. Sure more if you get into the details but bear with me:

Justification

Sanctification

Glorification

Which of these three occurs without Grace?

NONE!

BUT we:

Participate in Justification by acquiescing to the "Godly Sorrow" or "The Call" to Christ by REPENTING (handing in our "measure of faith card") and accepting the Grace of God for forgiveness!

Participate in the Sanctification process through the grace of God via the work of the anointing of the Holy Spirit (if we have the anointing) who gives us a new heart by FAITH! Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! So we feed on the word of God to receive more faith to appropriate the Grace of God who effects the changes in us by the Holy Spirit.

There are countless details and admonitions throughout the Word of God that we follow instinctively and this is not legalism it is FAITH!

Participate in Glorification at the last trump. Can anyone tell me how!

Does anyone disagree?
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I agree with everything.

Notice, the word “law” is not here, nor would it belong anyplace in this statementh, But I think we both know you wish to put it in here.. am I correct?
 
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gb9

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SimpleGardner said:
You are asking it those other that the israelites were under the law covenant? No
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you give really good politician's answers, nice and vague and non-specific .

but, it is an answer.

judeaizers claim that Jesus rose on the Sabbath , mostly based on some translations of when the women went to the tomb, which they point to and say that they went after the Sabbath as night fell, instead of the next morning.

and then there is the "double Sabbath " theory, which you can look into if you wish, that is way to complicated to go into .
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Yahshua said:
Deuteronomy 23:25
"When you enter your neighbor’s grainfield, you may pluck the heads of grain with your hand, but you must not put a sickle to your neighbor’s grain."
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If this was the correct answer to the Pharisees charge in Matthew 12 then it would have been what Messiah answered them.
It is not, and this verse in Deuteronomy 23 does not say 'you may do this on the sabbath'

But Christ answers perfectly: He gives two ensamples - David and his companions eating shew read, which is clearly prohibited in the law, and the fact that the law requires the priests serving in the temple to do what is prohibited by the law on the sabbath - and He proclaims that both are innocent, not that both are committing sins which are 'overlooked' by some kind of common-sense-necessity.

Why does Christ give examples of breaking the law but being guiltless in doing so, and declare Himself greater than the temple and greater than the sabbath in reply?
Why doesn't He say 'it is lawful what they are doing' - instead reminding His accusers of transgressions of the Law which are not counted against the ones who commit them?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#2,234
Karraster said:
More I think of it, that poly-cotton comment is an example of what the Pharisees did. They added more and more restrictions on top of the instructions of Almighty. They put a fence around the hedge...I'm not calling anyone a Pharisee, just pointing out my understanding of some things a Pharisee does.
Click to expand...
Many churches do this today, with the no smoking drinking cussing stuff. They add laws not found in scripture. And then judge and attack anyone who does not follow those laws.. Its all part ofo the legalistic mindset.

And actually it was not the pharisees who did this, (where their pharisees in the restoration from babylon?) When the jews got back from babylon, they added more rules. They figured if they make it hard to break the actual rules, that they will be safer, And not go through being defeated and cast out again.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,235
#2,235
gb9 said:
well, as I say this AGAIN- gentiles were never under the Law, and hence never commanded to keep the Sabbath. Paul himself said so in Romans 2.

now, as far as the Law-loving gardener goes, the I AM came down on the Mount of Transfiguration and said of the Son in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) " hear Him!
this elevates and separates the Words in Red above all other Scripture.

so, when Christ said " if you love Me, keep My Commands ", or :teach them all I have Commanded you ", he was referring to His words He spoke on earth, not the Torah.


and no, Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath, that is a Judeaizer conspirercy theory.
Click to expand...
I never heard the last sentence.. do people really believe this?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,236
#2,236
Karraster said:
...while it was yet dark....Biblica
  1. Mark 1:35 35Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed.
    John 20:1 1Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
    It wouldn't change my walk if I found out it happened on a Tuesday. However, scripture does say while it was yet dark. Sunday keepers say it was Sunday morning, all I know is while it was yet dark. I've not researched the Greek on these to see if it's the same words translated the same. Anybody know?
Click to expand...
Did John write the words I highlighted? If he did, DO you not think he would have told us it was the 7th day or the sabbath since it was still dark?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#2,237
gb9 said:
first of all, sin is much more than breaking the Law. it is missing the mark ( the actual definition of the word sin), knowing to do good and not doing so.


second, you did not address what happened on the mount of transfiguration , what The Father said to do with the Son's words.

third, I will explain the Sabbath thing if you state if gentiles were or are under the Law of Moses, and have to keep the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
Amen, Sin is much more than breaking the law.

And remember, It was paul who said the law caused sin to INCREASE (not decrease) so the law does have a cause and effect.

Think of the cookie jar,
No one says a word, your not tempted to get a cookie, although you may think about it and want one.

But have mom set down the law (do not take any cookies out of the jar, the law was there before mom said it, but she just laid down the law)

now the thought is there, the temptation is there. And the chances of you sinning increase exponentially, because you are tempted.

Thats what Paul meant when he said the law causes sin ti increase. It has the opposite affect that the lawyers want you to think.

Thats also why Jesus and the NT writers told us the means to overcome sin is not the law of moses, but the law of CHrist (love, seeking after the things of the spirit) which are others focused. Not self focused.
 
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gb9

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eternally-gratefull said:
I never heard the last sentence.. do people really believe this?
Click to expand...
yes, I guess I have spent too much time over the years I interacting with judeaizers , I have heard all their conspiracy theories .

some translations say " as the first day of the week began to dawn", they point to this.

believe it or not, I have been told by some ( if you remember studyman, he believed this ) that the women went out and bought the spices as soon as the Sabbath ended , then ran to the tomb before night fell.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#2,239
gb9 said:
yes, I guess I have spent too much time over the years I interacting with judeaizers , I have heard all their conspiracy theories .

some translations say " as the first day of the week began to dawn", they point to this.

believe it or not, I have been told by some ( if you remember studyman, he believed this ) that the women went out and bought the spices as soon as the Sabbath ended , then ran to the tomb before night fell.
Click to expand...
Some crazy stuff
 
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DeighAnn

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Jesus became our Passover.
gb9 said:
judeaizers claim that Jesus rose on the Sabbath , mostly based on some translations of when the women went to the tomb, which they point to and say that they went after the Sabbath as night fell, instead of the next morning
Click to expand...
It would be a shame, for God to have done that huge miracle in Egypt of death passing over His people by the blood on the doorposts, with Passover being their High Holy Day, and then when Jesus defeated death, (o death where is thy sting), passing over from death to life Himself, to have missed it by just an hour or two. Doesn't seem like God to me. He is extremely meticulous really. Wouldn't be the first time the "events' in the life of Jesus landed just perfectly with scripture would it?

Maybe it shouldn't be "demeaned", for any reason.
 
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