Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[posthuman]

The benefits lasted a year from Passover to Passover.

where do you get that from?

 

[Dino246]

You ask for response to this that you said “This sentence doesn't make sense to me: "If you accept Christ within you then your will has given all sin over to Him for forgiveness and you do not will to not follow the law, and that law is the spirit of the law." Perhaps you could rephrase it?”

I didn’t respond to this directly as I felt you only wanted to bait me. Here is a response:

First, in this scene the person has gone to Christ for forgiveness of sins. Christ has paid for our sins with His death, so they are gone from this person’s life and he is righteous now. The question is how this righteous person is to live from this moment on. Paul explains in Romans when Paul tells us that he finds himself doing what he does not want to do, Paul tells us that his will to do is to be righteous even though his flesh pulls him to sin. That is what God wants from us when Christ makes us a righteous person free of sin, that we do not want to sin any longer.

The law defines sin, so we must learn God’s law so that we can set our will to avoid sin.

Thanks for explaining.

Regarding your last sentence, how do you square it with Galatians 3:3?

 

[Dino246]

Jesu
Moses followed God, Jesus followed God. We listen to what they have to say to reach God.

While it's true that Moses followed God, it is perhaps misleading to say that Jesus followed God, being God Himself.

 

[Dino246]

If someone misunderstands your post, why not state your position with more clarity instead of just accusing. Your words are: "I am not subject to the Law is cate" "It's about whether we as Christians are under the Law.". If you mean you are not under the law for God's acceptance of your righteousness, I agree completely, me too. We are under Christ for that. If you mean that you now live a life without law in it, you are also in trouble. What do you mean by this?

What I mean is this: we as Christians are righteous before God by faith in Jesus Christ. That is, we began by faith. Paul wrote to the Galatians, who erroneously thought that obedience to the Law had to be added to faith in Christ. Paul asks rhetorically, "Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" The answer, of course, is No.

Our righteousness in Christ is not maintained by obedience to the Law; it is maintained by faith in Christ. His Spirit in us began a good work and will bring it to completion (Phil. 1:6). We don't bring it to completion by obedience to the Law.

Paul and James both make clear that if we seek to be righteous before God by obedience to the Law, then we must obey ALL of it: circumcision, Sabbath, the offerings, the feasts, the stoning of adulterers and murderers, the Levites and the priests. Well, we can't obey ALL of it because there is no temple, no Levites, and no priests, so it is ludicrous to think that we will be righteous before God by obeying parts of it. The Law was fulfilled by Jesus, and is fulfilled by our loving God and loving our neighbour as ourselves, by the power of the Holy Spirit within us.

Sadly, those who preach adherence to certain parts of the Law are actually preaching a false gospel, one which is contrary to the gospel that Paul preached.

 

[Endoscopy]

I do believe the Bible is flawless, but many Christians are not so sure about it. I'll give you an example:

Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Paul, however, said that he knew how to live in want or in plenty (he said it was OK to be rich). Most Christians read what Jesus said, take it as the whole truth (because they learned that Jesus' words take precedence over Paul's), but don't obey the Lord. If they believe Jesus' teachings override those of Paul they should obey Jesus. Following Paul is this case would be a sin (a matter of conscience).

In the example given above I don't obey Jesus -- I follow Paul --, but I know why I do this: it's because Paul's words are actually the words of the risen Jesus.

You and others fail to understand what the Eye of the Needle is. It was a small entry into Jerusalem. A camel had to crawl on its knees to crawl through the gate. This gate was always open and easily defended.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

where do you get that from?

Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Every year the first born male of a Jewish family had to attend the annual festival at Jerusalem to present the required offerings, often bringing at least a perfect lamb, along with tithe #1 of three. I got that from the Torah. I will not spend time teaching the requirements of the Law of Moses. You too can get all that from the Torah. There's a period at the end of that statement.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

While it's true that Moses followed God, it is perhaps misleading to say that Jesus followed God, being God Himself.

It's true that Jesus said He only preached what the Father God said and did.

 

[Endoscopy]

It's true that Jesus said He only preached what the Father God said and did.

The Bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[Guojing]

Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Every year the first born male of a Jewish family had to attend the annual festival at Jerusalem to present the required offerings, often bringing at least a perfect lamb, along with tithe #1 of three. I got that from the Torah. I will not spend time teaching the requirements of the Law of Moses. You too can get all that from the Torah. There's a period at the end of that statement.

More specifically, the covering sins for one year is the day of atonement, or Yom Kippur. The passage is from Lev 16, and concluded with

34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

 

[Endoscopy]

More specifically, the covering sins for one year is the day of atonement, or Yom Kippur. The passage is from Lev 16, and concluded with

34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Old Testament. Today we have Jesus who lived a sinless life becoming the Unblemished Lamb of God. As such was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Thus the free gift of grace was given by God. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

 

[Guojing]

Old Testament. Today we have Jesus who lived a sinless life becoming the Unblemished Lamb of God. As such was the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Thus the free gift of grace was given by God. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

The key lesson is that the annual sacrifice could take away sins for one year.

Yet, we have many Christians who have the silly view that Jesus's sacrifice only last us, until our next sin, and we must get it confessed and under the blood, otherwise God will punish us for it.

 

[posthuman]

Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Every year the first born male of a Jewish family had to attend the annual festival at Jerusalem to present the required offerings, often bringing at least a perfect lamb, along with tithe #1 of three. I got that from the Torah. I will not spend time teaching the requirements of the Law of Moses. You too can get all that from the Torah. There's a period at the end of that statement.

Torah says three times a year every male has to go to Jerusalem and participate in the feasts, not just the firstborn: for passover, or the feast of weeks, and the feast of tabernacles.

but where do you get 'the benefit only lasts a year' ? what benefit? atonement for sin?
if you're getting that from Hebrews 10:3, isn't the reference to yom kippur?
if the sacrifices on the day of atonement - e.g. the 'scapegoat' - are 'only lasting for 1 year' then the 2nd year are the priests again sacrificing for the sins of 2 years ago plus all the sins of the present year? and so on and so on?

i don't understand where you get 'benefit only lasts one year' and link it to passover. in the law passover is commanded to commemorate the day He took them out of Egypt, not to assuage a yearly, repeating threat of the angel of death coming to kill the firstborn of every household that doesn't have blood on the door. AFAIK.

if that's not so, can you show me?

 

[posthuman]

The key lesson is that the annual sacrifice could take away sins for one year.

where does the Bible say 'if you make this sacrifice for sin the LORD will forgive you for exactly one year then you have to make it again' ??

 

[posthuman]

More specifically, the covering sins for one year is the day of atonement, or Yom Kippur. The passage is from Lev 16, and concluded with

34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

yes, that would be a week before passover; not passover. so wordswordsman would not be correct in what he said earlier.

but is this for the sins of that year or for collectively that year's sins plus all the sins of all the previous years, because God's mercy expires on a yearly basis??

100 years after the Exodus is yom kippur atoning for 100 years of sins, or one year?

where does the Bible say His mercy has an expiration date?

 

[Grandpa]

Jesu
Moses followed God, Jesus followed God. We listen to what they have to say to reach God.

No.

Moses was no Christ.

Moses was an example of giving people what they wanted, Like King Saul. "Tell us what we should do and we'll do it". That's what people want.

Christ is the example of God giving people what He wants. Like King David. A man after Gods own heart.

 

[posthuman]

yes, that would be a week before passover; not passover. so wordswordsman would not be correct in what he said earlier.

** sorry, a week before sukkot ((feast of tabernacles)), not a week before pesach/passover. that's totally different time of year

but my point, more concisely, is this:

• all Jewish males under the law, not just firstborn, are required to go to Jerusalem 3 times a year for feasts
• passover is a commemoration, not an atonement
• the day of atonement seems to me to be for the sins of each year not for all sins of all preceding years:
• i see nothing in the text indicating the atonement of yom kippur has an expiration date
• i see nothing in the Bible anywhere about God's forgiveness having an expiration date

i am more than just open to being shown where this idea of an expiration date comes from; i am sincerely asking to be shown it.
i don't consider 'read all 5 books of Moses' to be an adequate answer to my question. am looking for something a teensy bit more specific .. ?

thanks

 

[Marcelo]

You and others fail to understand what the Eye of the Needle is. It was a small entry into Jerusalem. A camel had to crawl on its knees to crawl through the gate. This gate was always open and easily defended.

Read the text again:

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.



The disciples were greatly surprised because they realized it would be impossible for many to be saved and Jesus confirmed it. Obviously the "eye of a needle" Jesus was talking about was not wide enough for a camel to be squeezed through it.

 

[posthuman]

You and others fail to understand what the Eye of the Needle is. It was a small entry into Jerusalem. A camel had to crawl on its knees to crawl through the gate. This gate was always open and easily defended.

i've heard & read many people giving this as the explanation and many people saying this is a complete myth being propagated and that there never was any such thing. so much so that i don't feel confident either agreeing or disagreeing that this is what He is referring to.

setting that aside -- i'm not even sure whether camels actually physically can crawl on their 'knees' -- but the most poignant thing i have heard about this is that the keyway door being very narrow, a camel has to have all of its burdens removed from it in order to pass through.
i.e. -- could not fit through the door if it was carrying any baggage

that makes some sense in the context, because the Lord told the man to give his possessions ((baggage/burdens)) away.
it does make sense, too, about going to ones knees, i admit - because the opening of the conversation is Christ asking why he calls Him good? which i see as prodding this man to confess that Jesus is in fact Lord, not just a 'teacher'

 

[posthuman]

i'm not even sure whether camels actually physically can crawl on their 'knees'

ok, here's a video of a camel crawling on her forelegs --

however she's only down on her forelegs, and her hindlegs are still extended. so Aria the camel doesn't actually get any shorter than she would be if she only ducked her head.. which, i'm thinking, if a camel could fit through a gate like this, it could fit through without doing it, too.

 

[PS]

Read the text again:

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.



The disciples were greatly surprised because they realized it would be impossible for many to be saved and Jesus confirmed it. Obviously the "eye of a needle" Jesus was talking about was not wide enough for a camel to be squeezed through it.

His love of wealth was greater than his love for God. His god was money and for someone who loves mammon more than God, it is impossible for that person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

A camel might just squeeze through a narrow gate if it gets down on its knees and rids itself of its baggage. The Rich young Ruler was not prepared to do that. Money was more important to him than God.