Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Yahshua]

Have you ever noticed that what ever you start being accused of, is exactly what is being done to you? Is there a word for that?

Lol oh I point it out all the time. But that doesn't seem to register, strangely enough.

1 peter 3:15 says always be ready to give an answer.

I simply asked Post to clarify his question before I answered and another firestorm of accusations commenced. I guess that's ducking the question lol. Good thing the armor of God is made of such sturdy material

 

[Yahshua]

well, since you have been asked by others to answer questions, maybe you should answer those ( straight answers), then I will answer yours.

I am not going to give you a pivot point to keep dodging them.

I will say this- if you think there is a renewed Covenant , then I will not go into that.

I do not have time to speak about things that do not exist.

More hoops to jump through, and yet I'm called the dodger. I asked my question to you first before their questions to me, but nevermind. What question of theirs would you like me to answer?

 

[DeighAnn]

Lol oh I point it out all the time. But that doesn't seem to register, strangely enough.

1 peter 3:15 says always be ready to give an answer.

I simply asked Post to clarify his question before I answered and another firestorm of accusations commenced. I guess that's ducking the question lol. Good thing the armor of God is made of such sturdy material

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lol oh I point it out all the time. But that doesn't seem to register, strangely enough.

1 peter 3:15 says always be ready to give an answer.

I simply asked Post to clarify his question before I answered and another firestorm of accusations commenced. I guess that's ducking the question lol. Good thing the armor of God is made of such sturdy material

Ya see. If you were secure in your belief, you would not need to worry about being accused. Or someone trying to decieve you.

Thats why we are not afraid to answer questions.

You (all of you) who refuse to answer simple questions just expose yourself.

 

[NayborBear]

More hoops to jump through, and yet I'm called the dodger. I asked my question to you first before their questions to me, but nevermind. What question of theirs would you like me to answer?

Yanno? I don't mind answering inquiries from those with "saving faith."
I don't even mind when they "throw the elect under their buses!"

I know it frustrates the bejesus out of 'em, when after all their mocking and scoffing?
And being shown the difference between a "faith that saves", and a "faith that grows?'
That we're still here showing them the difference!
And, they're still trying to convince everyone we're wrong!
We know, we're not going to persuade those with "saving faith."
We can only hope, that those who possess a "growing faith?"
Will "hear" the "voice of the Lord", and respond positively, and not become angry, nor frustrated.
When asked: "Are you ready yet?" "Do you want them to teach you?" "Or, Me?"
And, even though it "appears" that it's "works FOR salvation?" It isn't!
Even though it "appears" as "works for maintaining salvation?" It isn't THAT either!
What it IS however. Is the difference between the "many called", and the "few chosen!"

 

[NayborBear]

Making my way back through this thread (and I may have covered this ^ subject with you before, I cannot recall, as a few Members kinda look alike ... so forgive me if I have)

… I believe "sons of God" (both here and in Job 1) are referring to "humans [/men]"... and also same in Gen6.
In the Job 38 passage, I don't believe the "humans/men" being spoken of there, were literally present then and there, but this would pertain to the distinctions (elsewhere) in the phrases "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world" and "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" (which, as I mentioned, refer to distinct things, distinct persons, where found).

And yes, I believe (after having studied it at length) that the Job 1 setting was "on the earth" (not "up in Heaven"); and that there are THREE (main) options as to what people typically say this phrase pertains to: 1) "angels," or 2) "men/humans," or 3) "kings/rulers" [<--or something like that] (the latter TWO options cover the "men/humans" option, of course).

It is one thing, in the breaking down of (how can I say) "raw data", and displaying it for consumption here, or in some text book, or thesis writing/s for "eyes of men degrees." Be it, a Master's, or PHD, or whatever. which would, and has, made (just cause?) to be viewed as "wise and learned", to "the world." More specifically however, to the layman. Or, in a venue such as CC Chat, sheep, or sheeples, or churches of stone, seekers, or believers, or "laymen", posing probing questions.

That being said? Your "taking in" of this "raw data", with these "multiple choices" (it could mean this! or? it could mean that!), doesn't give many people, at least me, if you are saying "Yea, yea, or nay, nay" as it pertains to every posting I have had the most unfortunate opportunities, in "muddling through." In whichever "thread" you participate in. To the point, that I scarcely read your posts any longer.
People like myself, and I imagine, I'm not alone, are "looking for a flow of thought", and/or a direction of "where are you heading with this?" "what is he saying?" Unless of course, it is the desire at a certain level, and/or depth of vanity, that obtains a "certain" satisfaction, of giving the readers of your posts that "glassy eyed" effect.
Doesn't mean you've won the point, or the argument, by any means. Or? You have! For the enemies of our God, and Father, and of Jesus Christ.

I am hoping you may take this correction, in the spirit of love, in which it was given.


Now! In replying to your reply?
Job 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

You really believe that this setting took place on earth?
Seems rather obvious this is taking place somewhere?
Yes!
Earth?
No!

This is different from the "setting" in:
Job 38
Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, (etc.)
Which definitely took place on earth!

(I apologize, as I've been "trying to keep abreast" in a fast moving thread )
(now where was I )


Oh yeah! PRINT!

 

[Yahshua]

Ya see. If you were secure in your belief, you would not need to worry about being accused. Or someone trying to decieve you.

Thats why we are not afraid to answer questions.

You (all of you) who refuse to answer simple questions just expose yourself.

I'm in the twilight zone lol

Ok, let's follow this logic out.

Scripture says "Christ became sin" for us. 2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him


So clearly scripture says Christ was made to be sin.

Do you worship sin? Have you placed your trust and faith in sin? Are you made the rigteousness of God in sin? Yes or no.

 

[DeighAnn]

And, even though it "appears" that it's "works FOR salvation?" It isn't!
Even though it "appears" as "works for maintaining salvation?" It isn't THAT either!

This is where the deception, in my opinion, makes its mark. Its main effect is the stopping of Gods Works for fear of losing salvation. (AND who would want to stop those working for God????)

The very doctrine promotes oneself to question if "working" for God is ok or not. It becomes a paranoid "If I work, I don't believe in the gift as a gift, and if I am working for salvation and I am not letting God do it all (when if that is what He wanted we would just be robots that He filled with emotion and wisdom and knowledge, not our own entity free to love or not)

No matter what it serves to question WORKING for God and turns what is originally a love offering into something less precious and pure.

 

[Yahshua]

This is where the deception, in my opinion, makes its mark. Its main effect is the stopping of Gods Works for fear of losing salvation. (AND who would want to stop those working for God????)

The very doctrine promotes oneself to question if "working" for God is ok or not. It becomes a paranoid "If I work, I don't believe in the gift as a gift, and if I am working for salvation and I am not letting God do it all (when if that is what He wanted we would just be robots that He filled with emotion and wisdom and knowledge, not our own entity free to love or not)

No matter what it serves to question WORKING for God and turns what is originally a love offering into something less precious and pure.

Great point.

 

[Grandpa]

What is righteousness to you? Not how it is given or who it is given by but WHAT it is.

Righteousness is Faith in Christ.

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



What is Righteousness to you?

 

[Grandpa]

The Laws of God exist to convict the sinner!
The Laws of God exist to delight the righteous!

The Laws of God exist to illuminate the misdeeds of the wicked; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST THESE Gal 5:19-21.

The Laws of God exist to illuminate the deeds of the righteous; love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: THERE ARE NO LAWS AGAINST THESE-JUST FOR THEM! Gal 5:22-23

So In verse;

Gal 5:18 KJV But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

It speaks to the main point of being “led by the Spirit”! This one thing is synonomous with “the laws written upon our hearts”

Remember the warning:

2Pe 3:15-17 NIV Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. (16) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (17) Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Paul’s meaning is that the Law is always there to bless or curse! If you are led by the Spirit you are not under/cursed by the Law! If you are carnal/wicked you are under/cursed by the Law! This is the point throughout Paul’s epistles, but ignorant and unstable people distort this to read "the Law is gone! Even if you sin, it’s GONE!" This they do to their own destruction!

The Law is always there to bless or curse if you place yourself under it or if you haven't been to Christ and received Rest.

Once a person has come to Christ they are no longer under the blessing or cursing of the law. They are under the blessing of Christ.


If you are carnal/wicked then you are STILL working at the law in your own understanding.

You have not been given the Revelation of Christ and what He has done for Christians. If you had been given the Revelation of Christ and His Rest then you wouldn't continue your work, that has been FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

2 Peter 3:16
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The UNLEARNED and unstable wrestle with Paul, attempting to make his epistles mean that Christians should continue their work at the law when Paul says the opposite.

2 Peter 3:17
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Being led away with the error of the wicked/carnal is working at the law in a carnal way in the flesh, not understanding that the law is fulfilled in a spiritual manner.


The ABSOLUTE PROOF of this is the very next verse which is the SOLUTION for NOT BEING LED AWAY with the error of the wicked;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Paul says much the same thing in Galatians 5;

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

And how would this be accomplished? Standing fast in the liberty of Christ and not being entangled AGAIN with the yoke of bondage?

By growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



You can't change the very essence of what Christianity is by changing the wording of "error of the wicked" to "error of the lawless". They are the same error. Neither error is solved by anyones work or understanding of the law.


Romans 9:30-31
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.


I suppose BOTH THINK they are righteous and bold in their steadfastness.

But the TRUTH is only those who have gained Righteousness through Faith in Christ are TRULY righteous and steadfast in Christ.

Those that follow after the law still have the vail over their mind, thinking they are righteous by their own work when in reality they absolutely have not attained Righteousness before God by their work.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The law is the power of sin.

Hey PH,

I think you are intelligent. Too much for trying to stand ;

1Co 15:56 NIV The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Without the verse that explains it.

Rom 7:11 NIV For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

If I didn't know better I would say you are twisting the scriptures trying to mischaracterize the Law! BE CAREFUL!

Obviously this verse is stating that Sin gains its power to slay the wicked through the law.

Any questions?

If not then again BE CAREFUL!

SG

 

[Magenta]

Obviously this verse is stating that Sin gains its power to slay the wicked through the law.

Any questions?

If not then again BE CAREFUL!

SG

The law remains to judge those not covered by the shed righteous blood
of Jesus Christ, by Grace, through faith. In Him there is no condemnation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm in the twilight zone lol

Ok, let's follow this logic out.

Scripture says "Christ became sin" for us. 2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him


So clearly scripture says Christ was made to be sin.

Do you worship sin? Have you placed your trust and faith in sin? Are you made the rigteousness of God in sin? Yes or no.

What logicare you tryin gto prove, I feel like I am talkin gto some high school bully who thinks he needs to make himself look like a tough guy by asking stupid questions..

Of course the answer is no to all of those. (See I am not afraid to answer, why would I be?)

By the way, If you have to be told what these passages mean, Then something is dearly wrong with you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is where the deception, in my opinion, makes its mark. Its main effect is the stopping of Gods Works for fear of losing salvation. (AND who would want to stop those working for God????)

The very doctrine promotes oneself to question if "working" for God is ok or not. It becomes a paranoid "If I work, I don't believe in the gift as a gift, and if I am working for salvation and I am not letting God do it all (when if that is what He wanted we would just be robots that He filled with emotion and wisdom and knowledge, not our own entity free to love or not)

No matter what it serves to question WORKING for God and turns what is originally a love offering into something less precious and pure.

Who is afraid of losing salvation?

The only people that need to be afraid of it are people that think it can be lost

To the rest of uys, we have rested from our work. And we are out growing in faith and love and figuring out what it really means to become christlike.. Because we have been freed from fear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law remains to judge those not covered by the shed righteous blood
of Jesus Christ, by Grace, through faith. In Him there is no condemnation.

For some reason they can not comprehend this fact.

The want to push everyone to follow the law. The law thats ONLY PURPOSE is to kill us!

 

[posthuman]

Take a child (or even an adult) and give them a rule to follow or a boundary to stay within that they never had before (i.e. "don't do this or that") and they'll instantly be triggered in heart to do that exact thing, many times right in front of you in defiance, just because you told them what not to do.

I realize this is what pop psychology tells you, and what many preachers have latched onto as an explanation, but it isn't true. Through the law comes the knowledge of sin, not the lusts of sin itself - what you've said here is exactly the thing you accuse me of saying, tho all I did was ask a question and quote a scripture. You are saying here that law produces sin - as tho a person doesn't desire to murder in their heart until they are told 'do not'
This isn't the truth. Do you have children? They will lie and they will covet long before anyone ever tells them not to. Raise a son, and you will find yourself issuing rules to them about things that you never even thought it was possible someone would want to do, that you never have mentioned to them before you find them engaging in it.

Law reveals sin, or causes it - and sin takes the occasion to spring to life and seek to break bend or subvert commands, not because sin wasn't there before - but because sin in all its vanity rebuff at it, and is all the more sinful.
You can't make a perfect human by refraining from giving them any rules. All you get in that case is an unrestrained human.

The heart must be changed, renewed - something only God can do. It is as it is written - the law is not for the righteous, and God has constrained all under sin, so He might show mercy, and be the justifier of the just: who live by faith, and for whom the law was not written.

 

[Magenta]

For some reason they can not comprehend this fact.

The want to push everyone to follow the law. The law thats ONLY PURPOSE is to kill us!

Galatians 3:23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen

These people want to make the law something it is not, and was never intended to be..

 

[Whispered]

God requires perfection.

As moses said obey every word. Otherwise you are cursed.

Paul confirmed this in gal 3

James said it this way, if you keep the whole law. Yet stumble in even one point, your guilty of all.

Grace teaches us to focus on forgiveness and loving others. Not trying to obey some law we can not keep.

I would say that the ten commandments of God are moral guideposts that are relevant to all people. They encompass, as I see it anyway, respect for God, self, and others. And love as well.

Jesus said when asked what commands should people keep, love the Lord with all your heart and mind. And love your neighbor as you love yourself. Upon those two commands in the new testament hang the laws and the prophets. He did not say, those two commands abolish the laws and the prophets. He said those laws and the prophets writings are grounded in those two areas that pertain to love and respect.

I wonder what the original language in Matthew 5:48 was. Because we can never be perfect in this life. And I am certain God knows this.