Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 1, 2019
1,336
743
113
Is it true that anyone who commits sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like will not inherit the kingdom of God?
 
Mar 14, 2011
65,351
11,845
113
Is it true that anyone who commits sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like will not inherit the kingdom of God?
The penalty of sin is death, PERIOD

People who live in sin who live in the world. Who do those things as second nature will not inherit any kingdom. Because they have failed to repent and come to Christ in faith.

However,

David committed sexual immorality, as did Abraham, As did many OT leaders.

Your so focused on sins, except for your OWN SINS. Stop trying to judge others, and try to start judging yourself. THEN maybe you can find the true grace of God. As you become like the tax collector and fall to your knees, and stop being the pharisee pumping your chest.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
It is a sin to lie.

I asked questions, not 'fired off the darts of the evil one'

And you didn't answer any of them.
This post I quoted, that was your response, and saying that I implied the law is sin, that was your response.

The law is a mirror. It says, 'do not lie'

Why does the law say that?
Are you also EG, or GB, or Grandpa? Are you one person with many different accounts or is your Post account the only one you have? I believe the latter is the truth.

It's extremely self-centered to think that the comment includes you when you haven't been here. There has been well over a dozen posts since the post in question. If you would've taken the time to read through them you would've seen that after I ask you for clarification, EG bombarded me with post after post.

Context. I keep telling you context is key.

Just like with the scriptures, when you pull content out of its context you can fall victim to a completely unintended result.

Next, the post I'm referring to is the initial post below, where I answered some of your questions already (full post):

https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4001078

No response or acknowledgment, and for you to keep asking some of the same questions means you somehow missed this post.

The question I didn't answer I ask clarification on and said I would answer as soon as i got it. Because on its face it implies "the law = sin or is sins supporter", which is a slippery slope into error. It was a slippery slope then and it's a slippery slope now.

Lol then I was antagonized for waiting for clarification because I didn't answer, which was used as a basis for determining idk something else about me. So turning it around I asked him what I'm now about to ask you (full disclosure: to show you how - without context - one can inadvertently twist scripture)

Scripture says christ was made to be sin for us. So do you worship sin?

Don't answer the question. It's asked simply to prove a point.

Context is important.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,593
6,865
113
It all sound well and good if what you claim I said was actually said.
i can help you remember. :)

i asked what law Jeremiah speaks of, and said:

“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 15:55-57)

does God write the power of sin in the hearts of those He redeems?

and you replied:


Unfortunately what you're implying - The Law = Sin
everything else in your 'long post' afterwards was under the presumption that your opening accusation was true.
it's not.
what else do you need me to say about that? the argument built on a false premise is inconsequential.


"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,
declares the Lord.
I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be My people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘know the Lord,’
because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the Lord.
"For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.
(Jeremiah 31:33-34)
exactly what law is this?
1 Corinthians 9:20-21 teaches us there are more than one.
the saints are not under "
the law" but they are not lawless; they under "the law of Christ"
James talks about "
the law" rebuking those he writes to, from Leviticus 19, saying if they break any part of it they are guilty of all, and that they are guilty as such because they show favoritism - and recommends that they keep "the law of our King"
Jesus gives "
a new commandment"
so what law does Jeremiah write of?

“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 15:55-57)

what law is this?
is it the same law Jeremiah speaks of?
this law is called here, the power of sin.
is that what is put in the mind and written in the heart of those with whom God makes a new covenant?

which law?
there are more than one in scripture.
it's important to know.







could someone explain to me what about that implies the law is sin?
someone seems to be speaking confusion.

ok thx
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
argument built on a false premise is inconsequential.
In this we agree.

The Law is written on the redeemed believer's heart. The law. His commandments. The same which was written on tablets of stone are written on tablets of the human heart - 2 Corinthians 3:3
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,593
6,865
113
Are you also EG, or GB, or Grandpa? Are you one person with many different accounts or is your Post account the only one you have? I believe the latter is the truth.

It's extremely self-centered to think that the comment includes you when you haven't been here. There has been well over a dozen posts since the post in question. If you would've taken the time to read through them you would've seen that after I ask you for clarification, EG bombarded me with post after post.
if i didn't have to work more than full time, and could spare more than 10 minutes once in a while to look at my phone, and if i didn't have a disabled son & a wife going through a string of surgeries to come home and see to, and you could be hospitable enough to address questions directly instead of whatever it is you call what you're doing, maybe i could keep up with all 12 pages that go by every day in the short time i can afford to check CC and see if anyone is extolling Christ in study of the scriptures.

please forgive my life.

"Under the law" is a very specific idiom that means "under judgment", or "under condemnation", or "violation: sins need to be taken care of".
to those who are under the law, as under the law
(1 Corinthians 9:20)
are you sure the apostle is trying to say 'to those under violation, condemnation and judgement i became as one under violation, condemnation and judgement' ?

Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
(Galatians 4:21)
are you certain what is meant here is 'y'all who desire to be under violation, condemnation and judgement, do you not hear what the condemnation says?' ?
let's examine that. vv. 22-31 says Hagar and Sarah are two covenants ((hello?? allegory? what is Mssr. MacArthur thinking??)) - and that the slave woman, Hagar, is Mt. Sinai -- cast out the bondwoman then, because we have become children of the free. now, remember, vv. 22-31 is explaining v.21 ((you said 'context' remember?)). so Hagar represents 'the law' - a specific law, because scripture mentions more than one. Mt. Sinai. Torah. the first 5 books.

you are trying to teach me that this is 'condemnation, violation, judgement' -- and scripture is telling me cast it out, you are children of Sarah. Sarah, 430 years before the law. without the law. a specific law. yet not lawless.

so which law is Jeremiah writing of in ch. 31 of his book?
the condemnation, violation, judgement law? Galatians 4:21 doesn't make any differentiation between the law of 'under the law' and 'the law' -- and the people the epistle is written to are trying, perhaps unwittingly ((?)) to put themselves under the auspices of a very specific 'the law' -- Mt. Sinai. Torah. Moses' law. the covenant made a Horeb. the first 5 books.
is this the law Jeremiah writes about?


i don't have any more time for you. think about my questions, please. not about judgement of others; about the questions, and about Christ, who He is and what He does.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
743
113
if i didn't have to work more than full time, and could spare more than 10 minutes once in a while to look at my phone, and if i didn't have a disabled son & a wife going through a string of surgeries to come home and see to, and you could be hospitable enough to address questions directly instead of whatever it is you call what you're doing, maybe i could keep up with all 12 pages that go by every day in the short time i can afford to check CC and see if anyone is extolling Christ in study of the scriptures.

please forgive my life.

You have my prayers for you & family...

SG
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
By faith I received the gift of salvation. By faith you received the gift of salvation. Jesus died for my sins. Jesus died for your sins. The laws of love are written on my heart. The laws of love are written on your. The laws of the kingdom of God in which rests the laws and the prophets are written in my mind. The laws are written in yours. The spirit dwells within me. The spirit dwells within you. The spirit leads and guides me in all aspects of my life and convicts me when my flesh causes me to sin. The yoke of the Lord is light. The spirit leads and guides you and and leads you in all aspects of your life, you have no yoke.

I acknowledge there are laws written within me. You do not acknowledge the laws written within you. I believe commandments can be broke. You do not believe there are any commandments left to follow. This covers me - whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. This covers you - whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Because I acknowledge my sin I repent and ask forgiveness as instructed by Jesus in how to pray to the Father - Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us, I do this daily and by the spirit within me I produce fruits of it. Because you repented when baptized and all your sins forgiven and now have no law, you have no sin, you do not repent. you are not forgiven daily and the spirit produces your fruit while you rest. I believe Jesus became the Sabbath and I rest in Him everyday. You believe the Sabbath went away. I am is smart.

These are the lessons I have learned from each side of the teaching. Please if I have misrepresented anything let me know.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,676
517
113
Yes, it was really interesting! But, .... why didn't Paul go to Jerusalem right after his conversion?

If Paul were to preach the exact same Gospel the Lord preached on Earth, he would have gone to Jerusalem in order to learn about it from the eyewitnesses. But his gospel was different. Here is another proof of it:

Jesus said:

it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God

and

Sell that ye have and give alms.

Paul said:

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

and (to Timothy):

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.
He explained in Galatians 1

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

...15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

My guess is that in the 3 years he spent in Arabia, the ascended Christ revealed the Gospel of Grace message to him.

If Moses was the spokesperson for the Law and to the Jews during his time in Arabia, Paul became the spokesperson for Grace and to the Gentiles.

You may find this short ebook interesting to understand more about the comparison between Paul and Moses http://shopeshop.org/Searchable Riches!/Authors/Stam, CR/Moses and Paul.pdf
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
2,947
1,515
113
www.christiancourier.com
Greetings W,

I think your question is part of the essence of the original post. And the answer to that question has been a definitive NO, Jesus did not say not to keep the commandments.

An interesting point I have put forward and received no answer on is this; If the book of Revelation was John putting down the words of Yahshua then how, if the book was written long after the last epistle of Paul was written can they reconcile these verses;

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Crickets!

I have asked a few of them if they acknowledge Revelation as truly the words of Yahshua and only one out of many has said yes, the rest refuse to answer.

Also, many people forget the other portion of that commandment. "Six days thou shalt do thy work,...."

Bless YHWH, Know and Keep

SG
I of course would not presume to speak for others so I'll answer for myself and what I believe. Yes, it is my understanding that Revelation, hence the name, was the revelations God gave unto John during his exile on Patmos.
I think if I hold faith in the wisdom and good news of Jesus the Christ, that I should believe what he instructed in his word. And that scripture in Revelation would for me settle the matter of commandments and sabbath.

I think the conflict would arise if I would try to out think the words of God. And put my own spin on it were I to prefer my version to that which is eternally his.
I think it a great addition to our discussion that you added the passages from the Book of Revelation. God's work that is. :) Thank you. And blessings to you.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
if i didn't have to work more than full time, and could spare more than 10 minutes once in a while to look at my phone, and if i didn't have a disabled son & a wife going through a string of surgeries to come home and see to, and you could be hospitable enough to address questions directly instead of whatever it is you call what you're doing, maybe i could keep up with all 12 pages that go by every day in the short time i can afford to check CC and see if anyone is extolling Christ in study of the scriptures.

please forgive my life.
You're responding as if I judged you...when you're the one who falsely accused me.

There's a real...I dunno what to call it...immaturity that's going on here in this thread. A lot of it.


are you sure the apostle is trying to say 'to those under violation, condemnation and judgement i became as one under violation, condemnation and judgement' ?
Yes.


are you certain what is meant here is 'y'all who desire to be under violation, condemnation and judgement, do you not hear what the condemnation says?' ?
There's a context. "Under the law" is not "the law".

Again,

"Under the law" =/= "the law"


let's examine that. vv. 22-31 says Hagar and Sarah are two covenants ((hello?? allegory? what is Mssr. MacArthur thinking??)) - and that the slave woman, Hagar, is Mt. Sinai -- cast out the bondwoman then, because we have become children of the free. now, remember, vv. 22-31 is explaining v.21 ((you said 'context' remember?)). so Hagar represents 'the law' - a specific law, because scripture mentions more than one.
The law of sacrifices. The ministrations. The levitical rites for justification. Bondage.


so which law is Jeremiah writing of in ch. 31 of his book?
the condemnation, violation, judgement law?
Not the ministration of death; not the blood rituals. The commandments, especially those that were spoken out of His own mouth.


Galatians 4:21 doesn't make any differentiation between the law of 'under the law' and 'the law'
The context is established in what Paul speaks about regarding Peter and what he was guilty of doing. He was guilty of no longer sitting with or eating with gentiles because there's a practice that says "all gentiles are unclean". Peter was corrected about this by the Messiah himself in Acts.


and the people the epistle is written to are trying, perhaps unwittingly ((?)) to put themselves under the auspices of a very specific 'the law' -- Mt. Sinai. Torah. Moses' law. the covenant made a Horeb. the first 5 books.
They are trying to put themselves under the purification rituals for justification (i.e. cleansing). Those are the works in context. Paul makes his point clear that one can't justify themselves, but then says "if while we seek to be justified by faith in Christ we find ourselves in sin (i.e. breaking the law) is Christ a minister of sin (i.e. is Christ a priest of the sinful or does Christ lead one to sin)? God forbid! If I build back up what has been torn dow (i.e. a sinful life in context) I prove myself to be a lawbreaker."

Can't get much stronger than "God forbid".

One can not break the law while seeking to be justified by Christ. Ergo to not break the law one must obey it.

For example, "Thou shall not commit adultery." This law when followed doesn't clean one of their sin. Must it be followed? Absolutely, but it doesn't clean sins.

There's nothing about this adultery law that even pretends to be a ritual for cleasing sins or purification. It's not a work of the law for justification. It's not an example of cleansing. It's not a schoolmaster that leads to Christ.

...but the law to bring a lamb to the temple IS a ritual for cleansing sins; IS a "schoolmaster" pointing DIRECTLY to Christ and his work, like a laser pointer.

Another example. The law not to bear false witness is a law that can not be broken because to do so is to sin. But this law isn't for cleansing or purification.

Meanwhile, the law to bring two goats for the atonement of the nation IS a law for cleansing, which directs the focus squarely on the work Christ would do as high priest. Such is a work of the law for cleansing of sins.

That's the context.

i don't have any more time for you. think about my questions, please. not about judgement of others; about the questions, and about Christ, who He is and what He does.
Thank you for your time. I hope you're now satisfied that I've answered of your question.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
743
113
I of course would not presume to speak for others so I'll answer for myself and what I believe. Yes, it is my understanding that Revelation, hence the name, was the revelations God gave unto John during his exile on Patmos.
I think if I hold faith in the wisdom and good news of Jesus the Christ, that I should believe what he instructed in his word. And that scripture in Revelation would for me settle the matter of commandments and sabbath.

I think the conflict would arise if I would try to out think the words of God. And put my own spin on it were I to prefer my version to that which is eternally his.
I think it a great addition to our discussion that you added the passages from the Book of Revelation. God's work that is. :) Thank you. And blessings to you.
Thank You too W,

I am pleased and impressed by the wisdom of your choices.

SG
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
Acts 13:13-16
Paul visits synagogue on Sabbath, sits and listens to law and prophets being read, before preaching the gospel.

Acts 13:26-27
Paul confirms the prophets are read every Sabbath.

Acts 13:38
Paul preaches that justification (cleansing of sins) is only through Christ not the Law.

Acts 14:1
Paul visits another synagogue.

Acts 15:20-21
Council at Jerusalem rules that gentiles are to...Obstain for blood, strangled food, fornication...For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.

Acts 16:4
As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the gentiles to obey.

Acts 16:13
On Sabbath, Paul went looking for a place of prayer in the town he was in

Acts 16:20
Romans took Paul to the magistrates accusing him of advocating practices and customs unlawful against the Romans...what would these be :unsure:

Acts 17:1-4
"As was his custom", Paul visited another synagogue for 3 Sabbaths and reasoned through the scriptures proving Christ was the messiah.

Acts 17:10-12
Paul visits another synagogue, convincing Jews and "God-believing gentiles"

Acts 17:17
Paul visits another synagogue convincing Jews and "God-believing gentiles"

Acts 18:4
[At corinth] Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Acts 18:13
Paul accused by some unbelieving Jews of persuading people to worship contrary to the law.

Acts 18:18
Paul takes nazarite vow found in the law.

Acts 18:19
Paul visits another synagogue to reason with Jews

Acts 18:24-26
Apollos, thoroughly knowledgeable of the scriptures preaches Christ in synagogue

Acts 19:8-10
Paul spoke in the synagogue 3 months.

Acts 20:6
Paul celebrated the feast of unleavened bread, a high sabbath in the law

Acts 20:16
Paul hurries to reach the feast of pentecost. Another high sabbath in the law.

Acts 21:20-25
James and the elders of the way tell Paul that Jews are accusing him of teaching against the law and suggest to him to perform a nazarite vow and pay for others to do so to prove there was NO TRUTH in their accusations and that Paul also lives in obedience to the law. James then repeats the commands given to gentiles: abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. Paul agrees.

Acts 22:12
Defending himself against false accusation, Paul explains that Ananias who gave him his sight back, is a devout observer of the law.

Acts 23:5
Paul is apologetic about cursing the high priest reciting the law against cursing the ruler of the people.

Acts 23:6
Paul calls himself a pharisee

Acts 24:14-18
Defending himself again, Paul emphatically says he believes everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and is also a follower of Christ (the way). That he was ceremonially clean through the law's nazarite vow and that he presented offerings in the temple.

Acts 25:8
Paul defends himself again saying he's done nothing against the law.

Acts 26:22
Paul says he said nothing beyond what Moses and the prophets would have said.

Acts 28:17
Paul says he's done nothing against his people or against the customs of his ancestors.

------

This is what the record in Acts details regarding Paul and the law.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

What does this tell us? We are to love God with all that we are and we are to love each other as we are one in Christ.

So, what is the law, APART from revealing how sinful man is in the flesh?

The Law tells us how HOLY GOD IS.

The law tells us who God is by showing us what HOLY consists of and inviting us to be an eternal part of that. The VOLUME of the book gives us the reason "why WE ARE".
What is Gods plan? who is trying to foil that plan? It gives us blow by blow details of exactly HOW those who have preceded us "did it right" and made God happy, and "did it wrong" and brought about Gods wrath.

If God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday, we best open our eyes WHETHER WE BE GENTILE OR CHRISTIAN OR ISRAEL because GOD is not a respecter of persons. DO you hear that? GOD told us HE DON'T CARE WHERE YOU CAME FROM, HE CARES WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU ARE HEADED AND IF YOU ARE HEADED IN HIS DIRECTION OR AWAY FROM HIM.

Jesus came in the volume of the Book. That means that NONE of that Old Testament has lost any meaning and we best regard it as it is of Jesus, and we are of Jesus, and "that" is what is inside of us. And whether we understand or not all of Gods laws have to do with treating Him with Love and respect and Honor, and treating each other the same way.

ALL of the OT was God telling how the outside should treat and be treated and (if they had just brought their hearts into it on their own probably wouldn't have needed and NT) the New Testament is telling us how the inside should feel act and react.
And we best be putting IT ALL TOGETHER BECAUSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO WHICH WE HAVE BEEN INVITED IS A HUMONGOUS DEAL. AN ETERNAL DEAL, LIVING WITH GOD IN A PERFECT WORLD, AGAIN. AND NO EVIL WILL MAKE IT. AND IF ALL YOUR SINS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN YOU, YOU BEST SHOW UP YOUR MOST PERFECT SELF OR IT WILL HAVE BEEN FOR NOTHING.

NO MATTER WHAT we think THE WORD SAYS, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. YES, A GOD OF LOVE, but also a God of vengeance and rules that He wants, no, demands be followed. He has made it as easy for us as possible for us.

How many of you remember the 1st age when God was creating the earth and all the sons shouted for joy??? None??? Well no need to explain what can happen to our memory then. All I am saying is no matter how you read this book, if you are NOT becoming more CHRIST like every day, and that means in WORD and DEED and thought and feeling, you better think about all those who are.

You want to be a nasty flesh attitude person?

It is all being written in the book. And if you know we are all sinners, and you think because you were baptized once and repented that there is nothing being written in that book you better be willing to bet your life on that premise because that is exactly what you are doing. Me, I like to be sure and cover my bases. Please if someone gets on me for repenting for my sins, MARK THAT PERSON. I repent and am washed clean as often as, well I should more, myself. Just saying I am positive my sins are being blotted out because each and every sin I acknowledge makes me wiser, TO CHANGE MY INNER WOMAN, to do better to become more Christ like.

God doesn't like division. HOW ARE WE DOING?

That is what law I follow WHEN I say I follow Gods Law, I am lead by the Spirit, not by the "written in stone" but the written in my mind and heart and only the Spirit tells me my direction and I can not put into words as some ask "which ones" Maybe they are meant to be personal. I don't know.

The wisdom and knowledge God has given me in the VOLUME of the Book, all of it as important as the next piece, not a jot or tittle to be reduced for any reason because GOD HIMSELF took away the penalty to set us even more free to CHOOSE THE WORD, CHOOSE HIM, CHOOSE LIFE, CHOOSE LOVE, Choose right, Choose wisdom and knowledge, Choose YHVH
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
They are trying to put themselves under the purification rituals for justification (i.e. cleansing). Those are the works in context. Paul makes his point clear that one can't justify themselves, but then says "if while we seek to be justified by faith in Christ we find ourselves in sin (i.e. breaking the law) is Christ a minister of sin (i.e. is Christ a priest of the sinful or does Christ lead one to sin)? God forbid! If I build back up what has been torn dow (i.e. a sinful life in context) I prove myself to be a lawbreaker."

Can't get much stronger than "God forbid".

One can not break the law while seeking to be justified by Christ. Ergo to not break the law one must obey it.

For example, "Thou shall not commit adultery." This law when followed doesn't clean one of their sin. Must it be followed? Absolutely, but it doesn't clean sins.

There's nothing about this adultery law that even pretends to be a ritual for cleasing sins or purification. It's not a work of the law for justification. It's not an example of cleansing. It's not a schoolmaster that leads to Christ.

...but the law to bring a lamb to the temple IS a ritual for cleansing sins; IS a "schoolmaster" pointing DIRECTLY to Christ and his work, like a laser pointer.

Another example. The law not to bear false witness is a law that can not be broken because to do so is to sin. But this law isn't for cleansing or purification.

Meanwhile, the law to bring two goats for the atonement of the nation IS a law for cleansing, which directs the focus squarely on the work Christ would do as high priest. Such is a work of the law for cleansing of sins.

That's the context.
This is wisdom and knowledge and a gift and I thank you.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,190
732
113
68
My guess is that in the 3 years he spent in Arabia, the ascended Christ revealed the Gospel of Grace message to him. ......................


............................You may find this short ebook interesting to understand more about the comparison between Paul and Moses http://shopeshop.org/Searchable Riches!/Authors/Stam, CR/Moses and Paul.pdf
I, too, believe that the ascended Christ revealed the Gospel of Grace to Paul during those 3 years in Arabia.

The book you linked seems to be interesting. It's bedtime here -- I'll read it tomorrow.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
485
83
“Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

What is the testimony of Messiah? He says, You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

Here's a less than 4 minute video on how to remember the commandments. It would be a great teaching tool for children. Remember when we were little, trying to memorize bible verses? Anyway, this video is great, I just love it.

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,988
2,187
113
By faith I received the gift of salvation. By faith you received the gift of salvation. Jesus died for my sins. Jesus died for your sins. The laws of love are written on my heart. The laws of love are written on your. The laws of the kingdom of God in which rests the laws and the prophets are written in my mind. The laws are written in yours. The spirit dwells within me. The spirit dwells within you. The spirit leads and guides me in all aspects of my life and convicts me when my flesh causes me to sin. The yoke of the Lord is light. The spirit leads and guides you and and leads you in all aspects of your life, you have no yoke.

I acknowledge there are laws written within me. You do not acknowledge the laws written within you. I believe commandments can be broke. You do not believe there are any commandments left to follow. This covers me - whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. This covers you - whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Because I acknowledge my sin I repent and ask forgiveness as instructed by Jesus in how to pray to the Father - Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us, I do this daily and by the spirit within me I produce fruits of it. Because you repented when baptized and all your sins forgiven and now have no law, you have no sin, you do not repent. you are not forgiven daily and the spirit produces your fruit while you rest. I believe Jesus became the Sabbath and I rest in Him everyday. You believe the Sabbath went away. I am is smart.

These are the lessons I have learned from each side of the teaching. Please if I have misrepresented anything let me know.
Posthuman asked what law was written on your heart.

Legalists and Judaizers say it is the 10 commandments.

Then a question was asked "Is the Power of sin written on your heart?"

No, right? Well then how can it be the 10 commandments that are written on your heart since that is what SHOWS SIN? I.E the power of sin.

I've tried to show legalists and judaizers this before but they just don't get it. Too busy justifying all their work at the law.


I just don't think legalists have thought their position through all the way. Legalist being someone who thinks their work at the 10 commandments causes themselves to be obedient and therefore a "law-keeper".

Oh well. Hey, good luck with all that. I see why the Lord has said to let the blind lead the blind now. It's the inevitable result of pride, I think. Maybe in a few years you will look back on all this and think "OHHH, that's what they were trying to tell me". I always want to see the positive.