Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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I collect up my Black Walnuts every year! Num! I bet the ink would look great! I'm a purist of sorts too. I have found so many pure and simple answers in the garden/off the land! I heard a guy that wasn't religious as far as I know, but he had a passion for simple living and he made a profound statement; "so many solutions to life's woes today are found in a return to the garden/land!" If I hadn't known that for myself I would have just dismissed him as another crazy! I have a love for our senior population. I never pass up a opportunity to ask our 80-and up seniors what life was like growing up. I mean I have literally asked hundreds of them. I was visiting my dad 91 in Florida and he met weekly with a group at Cracker Barrel. Well they were all in their 90's! They knew I was a Homesteader and so I started to probe their lives as children and 90% of them grew up poor and on homestead. I watched each one disappear into their memories and without exception, while probing the lives of "poverty" they grew up under was a profound sense that they had, in those lives of poverty something more precious and remarkable that they have experienced since. Most of them wished they could go back to that! Sure some of it was childhood, but to hear their account of no money, or electricity, or a car etc but yet the family singing hymns and time, yes TIME together! God was feared in their lives and it was what kept them safe and secure! When we were all done with breakfast you could see it in their eyes and they even commented they had not thought of many of the things we discussed for many many years. I know our current lifestyles are robbing us of many of the treasure our forefathers enjoyed. Yet we have been made to see a life without ease, comfort and things as "poverty", and somehow Yahshua invited those who were clinging to these things to give them up! So when I heard you speak of black walnut ink and feathers for brushes I thought of "the garden" the place of simplicity we were placed in when Our Heavenly Father made us and how, deep down we desire to return.

SG
That's wonderful, your Dad 91 still meeting up with his buddies, beautiful! I hope he is still doing well. Yes, I certainly agree with you about our elders. I enjoy to listen to them, they are usually very wise. My great uncle Jesse lived to 104, mind still sharp. His neighbor told me a story about him. While plowing his fields on his tractor, he'd sometimes get overcome with the need to pray, he'd get down off that tractor there and then. More than once someone passing would see him off in the distance slumped over on the ground beside his tractor. Naturally they thought the worst and would stop their car, get out running out to him thinking he'd had a heart attack.:) Come to think of it, I never met a person of that generation, or my parents generation that didn't believe in God, or even believed the commandments were done away with. hmm SG, you've caused me to remember something I'd forgotten, about some of the means Satan uses to pluck up the seed as soon as it's been sewn. It's called, public education/TV., etc.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I hope you will understand when I tell you I will not criticize the Jews as my Lord was Jewish.

The first part of your post I will respond to, so here goes. It is my understanding that Jesus was crucified on Passover afternoon. He then lay in the tomb for three days and nights then resurrected on sabbath day.
Something else I remember too. Jesus said to his disciples, if you love me keep my commandments. Why would one commandment no longer apply if Jesus meant to keep all his commandments?
.
The point under discussion is religion, not people.

Jesus broke the Sabbath, he made a point of it and did good things on the Sabbath, whereas those who kept the Mosaic Law would have left an injured man to die in the blazing sun. It is the law that is at fault. Jesus said to remember his shedding of blood, which we do in celebration of his conquest over death..
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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I find it concerning that the ten commandments are treated with such disdain these days when they pertain to how we show respect and love and adoration for God. And also how we are to treat others in God's name.

If loving God alone, if not murdering someone, not stealing what others worked to buy, not coveting my neighbors new built house, if respecting my parents, not lying about someone, not worshiping idols, taking God's name in vain, if taking a day of rest in my faith, if I remain faithful in my marriage, makes me a Legalist, I'll take that to translate to , "decent human being who loves Christ", and be thankful I know what it means to be on the path of the holiness teaching of my Lord.

I don't lie, cheat on my husband, steal, covet, murder, blaspheme, worship idols, disrespect my folks, or ignore God's command to take unto myself a day of rest from the world so as to be at rest in his word for a day and appreciate what it means to be there all the days of this life and the next.

Maranatha! :D
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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Posthuman asked what law was written on your heart.

Legalists and Judaizers say it is the 10 commandments.

Then a question was asked "Is the Power of sin written on your heart?"

No, right? Well then how can it be the 10 commandments that are written on your heart since that is what SHOWS SIN? I.E the power of sin.

I've tried to show legalists and judaizers this before but they just don't get it. Too busy justifying all their work at the law.


I just don't think legalists have thought their position through all the way. Legalist being someone who thinks their work at the 10 commandments causes themselves to be obedient and therefore a "law-keeper".

Oh well. Hey, good luck with all that. I see why the Lord has said to let the blind lead the blind now. It's the inevitable result of pride, I think. Maybe in a few years you will look back on all this and think "OHHH, that's what they were trying to tell me". I always want to see the positive.
The Volume of the Book,
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
Posthuman asked what law was written on your heart.

Legalists and Judaizers say it is the 10 commandments.

Then a question was asked "Is the Power of sin written on your heart?"

No, right? Well then how can it be the 10 commandments that are written on your heart since that is what SHOWS SIN? I.E the power of sin.

I've tried to show legalists and judaizers this before but they just don't get it. Too busy justifying all their work at the law.


I just don't think legalists have thought their position through all the way. Legalist being someone who thinks their work at the 10 commandments causes themselves to be obedient and therefore a "law-keeper".

Oh well. Hey, good luck with all that. I see why the Lord has said to let the blind lead the blind now. It's the inevitable result of pride, I think. Maybe in a few years you will look back on all this and think "OHHH, that's what they were trying to tell me". I always want to see the positive.
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

What does this tell us? We are to love God with all that we are and we are to love each other as we are one in Christ.

So, what is the law, APART from revealing how sinful man is in the flesh?

The Law tells us how HOLY GOD IS.

The law tells us who God is by showing us what HOLY consists of and inviting us to be an eternal part of that. The VOLUME of the book gives us the reason "why WE ARE".
What is Gods plan? who is trying to foil that plan? It gives us blow by blow details of exactly HOW those who have preceded us "did it right" and made God happy, and "did it wrong" and brought about Gods wrath.


If God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday, we best open our eyes WHETHER WE BE GENTILE OR CHRISTIAN OR ISRAEL because GOD is not a respecter of persons. DO you hear that? GOD told us HE DON'T CARE WHERE YOU CAME FROM, HE CARES WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU ARE HEADED AND IF YOU ARE HEADED IN HIS DIRECTION OR AWAY FROM HIM.

Jesus came in the volume of the Book. That means that NONE of that Old Testament has lost any meaning and we best regard it as it is of Jesus, and we are of Jesus, and "that" is what is inside of us. And whether we understand or not all of Gods laws have to do with treating Him with Love and respect and Honor, and treating each other the same way.

ALL of the OT was God telling how the outside should treat and be treated and (if they had just brought their hearts into it on their own probably wouldn't have needed and NT) the New Testament is telling us how the inside should feel act and react.
And we best be putting IT ALL TOGETHER BECAUSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO WHICH WE HAVE BEEN INVITED IS A HUMONGOUS DEAL. AN ETERNAL DEAL, LIVING WITH GOD IN A PERFECT WORLD, AGAIN. AND NO EVIL WILL MAKE IT. AND IF ALL YOUR SINS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN YOU, YOU BEST SHOW UP YOUR MOST PERFECT SELF OR IT WILL HAVE BEEN FOR NOTHING.


NO MATTER WHAT we think THE WORD SAYS, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. YES, A GOD OF LOVE, but also a God of vengeance and rules that He wants, no, demands be followed. He has made it as easy for us as possible for us.

How many of you remember the 1st age when God was creating the earth and all the sons shouted for joy??? None??? Well no need to explain what can happen to our memory then. All I am saying is no matter how you read this book, if you are NOT becoming more CHRIST like every day, and that means in WORD and DEED and thought and feeling, you better think about all those who are.

You want to be a nasty flesh attitude person?

It is all being written in the book. And if you know we are all sinners, and you think because you were baptized once and repented that there is nothing being written in that book you better be willing to bet your life on that premise because that is exactly what you are doing. Me, I like to be sure and cover my bases. Please if someone gets on me for repenting for my sins, MARK THAT PERSON. I repent and am washed clean as often as, well I should more, myself. Just saying I am positive my sins are being blotted out because each and every sin I acknowledge makes me wiser, TO CHANGE MY INNER WOMAN, to do better to become more Christ like.

God doesn't like division. HOW ARE WE DOING?

That is what law I follow WHEN I say I follow Gods Law, I am lead by the Spirit, not by the "written in stone" but the written in my mind and heart and only the Spirit tells me my direction and I can not put into words as some ask "which ones" Maybe they are meant to be personal. I don't know.

The wisdom and knowledge God has given me in the VOLUME of the Book, all of it as important as the next piece, not a jot or tittle to be reduced for any reason because GOD HIMSELF took away the penalty to set us even more free to CHOOSE THE WORD, CHOOSE HIM, CHOOSE LIFE, CHOOSE LOVE, Choose right, Choose wisdom and knowledge, Choose YHVH
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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.
The point under discussion is religion, not people.
You brought up the Jewish people. One cannot extricate Jews from their religion.

Jesus broke the Sabbath, he made a point of it and did good things on the Sabbath, whereas those who kept the Mosaic Law would have left an injured man to die in the blazing sun. It is the law that is at fault. Jesus said to remember his shedding of blood, which we do in celebration of his conquest over death..
Yes, he did. He did this to show that the strict structures of men corrupted the spiritual attributes of the day of rest father God ordained in Genesis, well prior to Sinai, in the garden of beginnings where God's law began.

Father could have created all he wished to come into being in an instant. However, his word tells us he took instead six of his days, as God calculates time unlike we do, to create all he willed and for his glory. And on the seventh day he rested. God blessed that day and sanctified it and rested from all the work he'd done to create all that was created.

God's message was not in that time, do not labor or you shall be killed on that sanctified day. With all that "sanctified" means and entails. Appreciating what God created on that day, God sent us his first creation message I think. When he rested from his labors and appreciated all that his power had created, why would we ever think we would be obliged to disrespect that which is of God, created of and by God, in order to call that , keeping the sabbath day holy? As a reference to your hypothetical concerning an injured man to be left to die in the blazing sun.

The parable of the good Samaritan should have satisfied any thought of such a thing, shouldn't it have? When the Jews were not typically cordial to Samaritan's at the time.
Jesus broke the sabbath as the one that embodied the sacred spirit that instituted the sabbath. To show God's work and word superseded man's word and law.

If I keep the sabbath am I to be judged as one who is not in Christ?
When Christ kept the sabbath as the sabbath maker. And yet violated men's edict, the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat, as to what it meant to keep the sabbath according to the law of men.
Jesus said the sabbath was made for man. Man was not made for the sabbath. And then he showed us the way to live that.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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:) Come to think of it, I never met a person of that generation, or my parents generation that didn't believe in God, or even believed the commandments were done away with. hmm SG, you've caused me to remember something I'd forgotten, about some of the means Satan uses to pluck up the seed as soon as it's been sewn. It's called, public education/TV., etc.
One of the four hidden dynasties education. Remember when they first took prayer, then the pledge of allegiance out of the schools and brought in "evolution"? Been working on the minds a long time.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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688
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You brought up the Jewish people. One cannot extricate Jews from their religion.

Yes, he did. He did this to show that the strict structures of men corrupted the spiritual attributes of the day of rest father God ordained in Genesis, well prior to Sinai, in the garden of beginnings where God's law began.

Father could have created all he wished to come into being in an instant. However, his word tells us he took instead six of his days, as God calculates time unlike we do, to create all he willed and for his glory. And on the seventh day he rested. God blessed that day and sanctified it and rested from all the work he'd done to create all that was created.

God's message was not in that time, do not labor or you shall be killed on that sanctified day. With all that "sanctified" means and entails. Appreciating what God created on that day, God sent us his first creation message I think. When he rested from his labors and appreciated all that his power had created, why would we ever think we would be obliged to disrespect that which is of God, created of and by God, in order to call that , keeping the sabbath day holy? As a reference to your hypothetical concerning an injured man to be left to die in the blazing sun.

The parable of the good Samaritan should have satisfied any thought of such a thing, shouldn't it have? When the Jews were not typically cordial to Samaritan's at the time.
Jesus broke the sabbath as the one that embodied the sacred spirit that instituted the sabbath. To show God's work and word superseded man's word and law.

If I keep the sabbath am I to be judged as one who is not in Christ?
When Christ kept the sabbath as the sabbath maker. And yet violated men's edict, the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat, as to what it meant to keep the sabbath according to the law of men.
Jesus said the sabbath was made for man. Man was not made for the sabbath. And then he showed us the way to live that.
You say, "One cannot extricate Jews from their religion" so what is the point of discussing Christianity with those who are determined to hold onto their Jewish traditions?

In the next sentence you say, "Yes, he (Jesus) did. He did this to show that the strict structures of men corrupted the spiritual attributes of the day of rest father God." So despite the corruption, you still hold onto the corrupt teaching?

Water and oil do not mix. Sorry.

Stop being proud! Don't you know how a little yeast can spread through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast! Then you will be like fresh bread made without yeast, and that is what you are. Our Passover lamb is Christ, who has already been sacrificed.
(1Co 5:6-7 CEV)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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You say, "One cannot extricate Jews from their religion" so what is the point of discussing Christianity with those who are determined to hold onto their Jewish traditions?

In the next sentence you say, "Yes, he (Jesus) did. He did this to show that the strict structures of men corrupted the spiritual attributes of the day of rest father God." So despite the corruption, you still hold onto the corrupt teaching?

Water and oil do not mix. Sorry.

Stop being proud! Don't you know how a little yeast can spread through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old yeast! Then you will be like fresh bread made without yeast, and that is what you are. Our Passover lamb is Christ, who has already been sacrificed.
(1Co 5:6-7 CEV)
Unfortunately we have come to an impasse.
May God bless and keep you all the days of your life.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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The first words He speaks

Matthew 3:14 But John forbad Him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written,

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God

 
Mar 14, 2011
65,453
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I find it concerning that the ten commandments are treated with such disdain these days when they pertain to how we show respect and love and adoration for God. And also how we are to treat others in God's name.

If loving God alone, if not murdering someone, not stealing what others worked to buy, not coveting my neighbors new built house, if respecting my parents, not lying about someone, not worshiping idols, taking God's name in vain, if taking a day of rest in my faith, if I remain faithful in my marriage, makes me a Legalist, I'll take that to translate to , "decent human being who loves Christ", and be thankful I know what it means to be on the path of the holiness teaching of my Lord.

I don't lie, cheat on my husband, steal, covet, murder, blaspheme, worship idols, disrespect my folks, or ignore God's command to take unto myself a day of rest from the world so as to be at rest in his word for a day and appreciate what it means to be there all the days of this life and the next.

Maranatha! :D
Who does ths? Who says it is ok to break them? Why is it that lawyers always fall back on this nonsensical argument?

The real question is, and should be, do you obey all ten perfectly (not just the letter) and if you don’t then what is the consequence of your failing to keep the law?

Do the ten commands tell us how to keep them? Or did. jesus show us when he said we keep them by obeying th elaw of Love?

No one here is sayign its ok to break them. You people have to stop this nonsense. Because all your doing is trying to convince yourself that your right.
 
May 1, 2019
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That's wonderful, your Dad 91 still meeting up with his buddies, beautiful! I hope he is still doing well. Yes, I certainly agree with you about our elders. I enjoy to listen to them, they are usually very wise. My great uncle Jesse lived to 104, mind still sharp. His neighbor told me a story about him. While plowing his fields on his tractor, he'd sometimes get overcome with the need to pray, he'd get down off that tractor there and then. More than once someone passing would see him off in the distance slumped over on the ground beside his tractor. Naturally they thought the worst and would stop their car, get out running out to him thinking he'd had a heart attack.:) Come to think of it, I never met a person of that generation, or my parents generation that didn't believe in God, or even believed the commandments were done away with. hmm SG, you've caused me to remember something I'd forgotten, about some of the means Satan uses to pluck up the seed as soon as it's been sewn. It's called, public education/TV., etc.

So true about public indoctrination-education/TV! I have heard TV as "inviting a stranger into your house" and slowly that seemingly moral and family oriented stranger INCREMENTALLY began to expose the worlds families to sin by example. Insidious! Like to proverbial frog in a pot of water on the stove. If people today were exposed to the morality of 150 years ago their experience would probably begin with their flogging and possibly worse! I'm not saying that men were all saints, but the general moral tenor of the land was God and family!

Thank you for sharing that about your uncle praying! Children may have seen that and recognized a heart after Gad which inspired them! I know I saw my dad praying on his knees every day too. He has a profound fear, respect and admiration for God and His order. I have always been humbled by His wordless demonstration of reverence and tenderness with relation to our Creator.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,997
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Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

What does this tell us? We are to love God with all that we are and we are to love each other as we are one in Christ.

So, what is the law, APART from revealing how sinful man is in the flesh?

The Law tells us how HOLY GOD IS.

The law tells us who God is by showing us what HOLY consists of and inviting us to be an eternal part of that. The VOLUME of the book gives us the reason "why WE ARE".
What is Gods plan? who is trying to foil that plan? It gives us blow by blow details of exactly HOW those who have preceded us "did it right" and made God happy, and "did it wrong" and brought about Gods wrath.


If God is the same today, tomorrow and yesterday, we best open our eyes WHETHER WE BE GENTILE OR CHRISTIAN OR ISRAEL because GOD is not a respecter of persons. DO you hear that? GOD told us HE DON'T CARE WHERE YOU CAME FROM, HE CARES WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU ARE HEADED AND IF YOU ARE HEADED IN HIS DIRECTION OR AWAY FROM HIM.

Jesus came in the volume of the Book. That means that NONE of that Old Testament has lost any meaning and we best regard it as it is of Jesus, and we are of Jesus, and "that" is what is inside of us. And whether we understand or not all of Gods laws have to do with treating Him with Love and respect and Honor, and treating each other the same way.

ALL of the OT was God telling how the outside should treat and be treated and (if they had just brought their hearts into it on their own probably wouldn't have needed and NT) the New Testament is telling us how the inside should feel act and react.
And we best be putting IT ALL TOGETHER BECAUSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD TO WHICH WE HAVE BEEN INVITED IS A HUMONGOUS DEAL. AN ETERNAL DEAL, LIVING WITH GOD IN A PERFECT WORLD, AGAIN. AND NO EVIL WILL MAKE IT. AND IF ALL YOUR SINS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN YOU, YOU BEST SHOW UP YOUR MOST PERFECT SELF OR IT WILL HAVE BEEN FOR NOTHING.


NO MATTER WHAT we think THE WORD SAYS, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. YES, A GOD OF LOVE, but also a God of vengeance and rules that He wants, no, demands be followed. He has made it as easy for us as possible for us.

How many of you remember the 1st age when God was creating the earth and all the sons shouted for joy??? None??? Well no need to explain what can happen to our memory then. All I am saying is no matter how you read this book, if you are NOT becoming more CHRIST like every day, and that means in WORD and DEED and thought and feeling, you better think about all those who are.

You want to be a nasty flesh attitude person?

It is all being written in the book. And if you know we are all sinners, and you think because you were baptized once and repented that there is nothing being written in that book you better be willing to bet your life on that premise because that is exactly what you are doing. Me, I like to be sure and cover my bases. Please if someone gets on me for repenting for my sins, MARK THAT PERSON. I repent and am washed clean as often as, well I should more, myself. Just saying I am positive my sins are being blotted out because each and every sin I acknowledge makes me wiser, TO CHANGE MY INNER WOMAN, to do better to become more Christ like.

God doesn't like division. HOW ARE WE DOING?

That is what law I follow WHEN I say I follow Gods Law, I am lead by the Spirit, not by the "written in stone" but the written in my mind and heart and only the Spirit tells me my direction and I can not put into words as some ask "which ones" Maybe they are meant to be personal. I don't know.

The wisdom and knowledge God has given me in the VOLUME of the Book, all of it as important as the next piece, not a jot or tittle to be reduced for any reason because GOD HIMSELF took away the penalty to set us even more free to CHOOSE THE WORD, CHOOSE HIM, CHOOSE LIFE, CHOOSE LOVE, Choose right, Choose wisdom and knowledge, Choose YHVH
The Law doesn't do any of the things you say it does. You are completely and I mean completely confused.

The Holy Spirit is what shows us how Holy God is. The Law just commands.

2 Corinthians 3:12-17
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


Otherwise, the "Volume of the Book" says;
Romans 6:4 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


That last ones a hard one for the workers of iniquity. Or should I say those that are righteous in their own eyes.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


The volume of the book. Interesting that you don't understand what is in it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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They are trying to put themselves under the purification rituals for justification (i.e. cleansing). Those are the works in context. Paul makes his point clear that one can't justify themselves, but then says "if while we seek to be justified by faith in Christ we find ourselves in sin (i.e. breaking the law) is Christ a minister of sin (i.e. is Christ a priest of the sinful or does Christ lead one to sin)? God forbid! If I build back up what has been torn dow (i.e. a sinful life in context) I prove myself to be a lawbreaker."
they are being circumcised.
circumcision is not a purification/cleansing ritual for justification. it is a mark of a covenant.
Paul tells them, if they accept it, they are liable to the whole law
'the whole law' -- i.e. you don't get to remove certain jots and tittles ((ex. 'purification cleansing rituals')); the law is one law

'if i build back up what has been torn down' --

Galatians 2:15-21
We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

'if I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker, for through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God'


I died to the law in order to live for God.


hmm we've heard that before:

Romans 7:1
Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?

Romans 7:4
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Romans 7:6
by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


the law has no authority over someone who has died.
I am crucified with Christ.
I died to the law in order to live for God.
If I build up again what has been destroyed I would truly be a lawbreaker.
no one is justified by the law.
did I receive the Spirit through the law? am I then perfected by it?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I hope you're now satisfied that I've answered of your question.
you didn't give a straight answer to any of my questions, but I take it that you believe Jeremiah is talking about Moses' Law with about 2/3 of the jots and tittles removed?

can you at least give a straight answer about whether that is your answer to that one question?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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"Under the law" is a very specific idiom that means "under judgment", or "under condemnation", or "violation: sins need to be taken care of".
Galatians 4:1-11
What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world. But when the set time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. Because you are His sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are His child, God has made you also an heir.
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.




v. 4 -- 'God sent His Son born under the law'

Josh would have me believe, this means God sent His Son born in sin, in violation and condemnation, under judgement. because, 'idiom'

i suppose he thinks that's why Jesus was baptized? because beforehand He was full of sin, under judgement and worthy of condemnation? in which case baptism - a cleansing/purification ritual - was effective in cleansing the sin of the Messiah?

is it then the purification ritual of baptism that removes our sin?

perhaps he'll clarify that.
just asking questions.
 

posthuman

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you're the one who falsely accused me.
you definitely did say that i was equating the law with sin.
that's not false accusation, it's your own words.

Unfortunately what you're implying - The Law = Sin - Paul hoped his readers of Romans would absolutely avoid thinking...
and in the same post you yourself explained that you believe the presence of law produces sin:

Take a child (or even an adult) and give them a rule to follow or a boundary to stay within that they never had before (i.e. "don't do this or that") and they'll instantly be triggered in heart to do that exact thing, many times right in front of you in defiance, just because you told them what not to do.

It's possible they never even dreamed of doing the opposite, but because you told them what NOT to do they are compelled to rebel.
 

posthuman

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Do we have animal sacrifice any more, or any type of blood sacrifice? No, because The Lamb of God fulfilled all blood sacrifices.
the sacrifices are written in jots and tittles.

Q:
what became of 'not one jot or tittle removed' ?

A:
we died to the law in order to belong to another

He is my Husband
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
The Law is always there to bless or curse if you place yourself under it or if you haven't been to Christ and received Rest.

Once a person has come to Christ they are no longer under the blessing or cursing of the law. They are under the blessing of Christ.


If you are carnal/wicked then you are STILL working at the law in your own understanding.

You have not been given the Revelation of Christ and what He has done for Christians. If you had been given the Revelation of Christ and His Rest then you wouldn't continue your work, that has been FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

2 Peter 3:16
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The UNLEARNED and unstable wrestle with Paul, attempting to make his epistles mean that Christians should continue their work at the law when Paul says the opposite.

2 Peter 3:17
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Being led away with the error of the wicked/carnal is working at the law in a carnal way in the flesh, not understanding that the law is fulfilled in a spiritual manner.


The ABSOLUTE PROOF of this is the very next verse which is the SOLUTION for NOT BEING LED AWAY with the error of the wicked;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Paul says much the same thing in Galatians 5;

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

And how would this be accomplished? Standing fast in the liberty of Christ and not being entangled AGAIN with the yoke of bondage?

By growing in Grace and in the Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



You can't change the very essence of what Christianity is by changing the wording of "error of the wicked" to "error of the lawless". They are the same error. Neither error is solved by anyones work or understanding of the law.


Romans 9:30-31
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.


I suppose BOTH THINK they are righteous and bold in their steadfastness.

But the TRUTH is only those who have gained Righteousness through Faith in Christ are TRULY righteous and steadfast in Christ.

Those that follow after the law still have the vail over their mind, thinking they are righteous by their own work when in reality they absolutely have not attained Righteousness before God by their work.
......In the meantime? The fact that there is this "Spirit of INSTEAD of Christ?" (do THIS, "INSTEAD of THAT!")
That must have been abolished? WHEN?

Oh, that's right! It hasn't been abolished!
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
The Law doesn't do any of the things you say it does. You are completely and I mean completely confused.

The Holy Spirit is what shows us how Holy God is. The Law just commands.

2 Corinthians 3:12-17
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.


Otherwise, the "Volume of the Book" says;
Romans 6:4 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


That last ones a hard one for the workers of iniquity. Or should I say those that are righteous in their own eyes.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


The volume of the book. Interesting that you don't understand what is in it.
You just will not or can not accept the New Covenant or follow the order of events. You and those who believe like you refuse to leave the old covenant that Jesus came in, and move onto the New Covenant that the blood of Jesus brought in. Just like the Pharisees wouldn't give up that old law, neither will you. How you can't see or accept "changes" made is beyond me. It will remain beyond me. HUMBLE YOURSELF AND PRAY TO GOD TO open your eyes and that "THE LAW WILL BECOME ALIVE AND VALID IN YOUR LIFE" AND THE DEATH YOU SO SEE WILL BE TURNED TO THE LOVE THAT HAS REPLACED IT AND LET THE SPIRIT USE THOSE LAWS WRITTEN INSIDE YOUR HEART AND MIND TO PERFECT YOU AS YOU PROGRESS TOWARD YOUR MOST CHRISTLIKE STATE.

YES WE are His workmanship. FOR WHAT REASON? For good works and to walk more like Christ. CHRIST FOLLOW THE LOVE OF THE LAW OF GOD. IF WE DONT DO IT LIKE HE DID WE CAN'T BECOME LIKE HIM. IF THE SPIRIT THAT DWELLS WITHIN US, GAVE US EVERYTHING WE WOULD ALL BE THE EXACT SAME IN UNDERSTANDING WOULDN'T WE? So it helps us to find the way, doesn't take every step for us.

As you have every time accused, and have every time been wrong, you believe that "we no longer walk in the Spirit" and I tell you we walk more in the Spirit than you because we have not only the Spirit we also have the Spirit of the law of love, and you have no law at all. Of course another thing that those lacking spiritual "eyes and ears" can not see or hear. And it shows in the words you write and the points you make. It is clear as day to all who come and read. Your name calling calls you out if everyone of your posts. But you don't see how very UNCHRIST like that is. None of you must see it at all. But when you have no where else to go....

It is all so sad and must be breaking Gods heart. But every generation seems to turn their backs on Gods Word in some fashion, there is nothing new under the sun.

I love all of God, I love all of Gods Word. I THANK GOD that I got to spend my time in the flesh during this period of Grace. The freedom from remaining in sin everyday because I have the most precious perfect blood ever spilled, your blood washing me clean every time I repent I can not begin to express. I am so sorry you are being rejected yet once, and men are trying to find their salvation on their own terms and not yours. Thank you for that law in my mind that keeps me on the straight and narrow and the law written upon my heart that keeps my love for you and my brethren going each and every day. I pray one day they will see the difference you brought about in the law in the spiritual sense, and they will be able to leave the "flesh or carnal" minds way of the earthy "following" of that law behind them and embrace the New Covenant with open arms, leaving the flesh and death behind, THY WILL BE DONE. I will fight the good fight for all of your Word which you so graciously made sure was placed not only in my soul and spirit but in my hand so that I may so easily seek out your knowledge and wisdom each and every day. And thank you God for this forum to spread Your truth and Your love and I pray, that all will pray for their eyes to be opened to the wonderful joyous experience of the ALL of YOU, which can only be found when we seek and search and we rightly divide the Word. All this so they will understand there is no labor involved when it is just another natural part of you. May all come to realize The Father The Son and The Holy Spirit are all in agreement, and no matter how a man may try, that law is within them, and to deny it is to deny themselves. Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God.

Otherwise, the "Volume of the Book" says we don't get to choose a couple verses, Volume is the key word here. If the Holy Spirit was all that showed us the Holiness of God, we would not be here discussing it as we would all be of the same mind. It is a work to progress towards perfection. It is a walk towards God. It is a spreading of the good news.

Have you ever thought about the reason their "following the law" wasn't counted for righteousness in the OT? Because they didn't do it in their hearts. Does it give you pause that you are now "doing it with love" but not following the law? MAYBE THE KEY IS TO DO IT HIS WAY FOLLOW "HIS LAW IN LOVE". HE WROTE THEM, THE LAW INSIDE OF US, THERE IS NO ESCAPING THEM. HEART AND MIND. Not 1/2 of what God wants but all of what God wants. We are not talking about things you and I just "made up" THESE are the LAWS of GOD. He spent hundreds of pages of the Book on them. I am thinking that makes them really important.