Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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May 1, 2019
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i am saying i am not aware that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was promised at Sinai but the people 'lost the opportunity' because they asked for a mediator, being fearful of God.

i don't know how to be more clear than that.

that's what you said took place:

Did you read the OT references I sent earlier in our conversation? If you cannot gather that Israel was to receive the Holy Spirit from God to bring their hearts into sync with the Torah I cannot say anything to convince you. Either you see the matter being articulated or you don't. If you can get a glimpse if it then dig in. If my assertions are not obvious at all then we reading with different eyes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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neither circumcision nor uncircumcision are anything.
rather, faith working through love.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Did you read the OT references I sent earlier in our conversation? If you cannot gather that Israel was to receive the Holy Spirit from God to bring their hearts into sync with the Torah I cannot say anything to convince you. Either you see the matter being articulated or you don't. If you can get a glimpse if it then dig in. If my assertions are not obvious at all then we reading with different eyes.

Numbers 11:29? yeah, i put the immediate context with it, which refutes what i understood to be your clearly stated premise.

where does the Bible say they would have all been indwelt by the Spirit if only they had not asked for a mediator? i'm sorry if you posted something else that i missed.

do you really think God failed at Sinai, and Jesus was plan B?
i believe He knows the end from the beginning and nothing He has done or said has failed to accomplish His purpose.
 
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this does not say 'Sinai was a failure' like you said. it does not say the Spirit would have indwelt everyone if only they had not feared God at the mountain. it in fact refutes your premise, which was that the people did not receive the Holy Spirit because they listened to God through a mediator ((even tho the Spirit Himself is a mediator, John 16:13-15)). here are two men who heard God through Moses just like the rest of Israel, and the Spirit of prophecy was on them nonetheless.

did you forget that Paul said the same thing to the Corinthians? 1 Corinthians 14:5 ?
then was the cross similarly a failure?

did you forget that our Lord enfleshed is Himself is a mediator?
There was another account where the family of Aaron received the Spirit of God and were consecrated to the service of the Tabernacle. You can nit pick all you wish, and I sense you are or you can see the broader picture that the other 99.999% of Israel did not acquiesce to dying to self and receiving the Holy Spirit of the Law!

Perhaps you are too intellectual for your own good and you have shut out any movement of the Holy Spirit and are requiring Logic to dominate your thought processes

.
Rom 11:34 KJV For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?


If you try to acquire a knowledge of God solely using your intellect you will be undone! His thinking is not our thinking, If our IQ are 160-190, His is 200,000! God give us His Holy Spirit to communicate His ways and will to us. If you think you would like to have a go at matching wits with the Creator of all things you will be reduced to nothing. But He does wish to communicate His truths to us. However the Bible is Spirit, Not letters. To read without the Holy Spirit is a waste of time.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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There was another account where the family of Aaron received the Spirit of God and were consecrated to the service of the Tabernacle. You can nit pick all you wish, and I sense you are or you can see the broader picture that the other 99.999% of Israel did not acquiesce to dying to self and receiving the Holy Spirit of the Law!

Perhaps you are too intellectual for your own good and you have shut out any movement of the Holy Spirit and are requiring Logic to dominate your thought processes

.
Rom 11:34 KJV For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?


If you try to acquire a knowledge of God solely using your intellect you will be undone! His thinking is not our thinking, If our IQ are 160-190, His is 200,000! God give us His Holy Spirit to communicate His ways and will to us. If you think you would like to have a go at matching wits with the Creator of all things you will be reduced to nothing. But He does wish to communicate His truths to us. However the Bible is Spirit, Not letters. To read without the Holy Spirit is a waste of time.
Aaron too heard God through Moses, the mediator.

so how are you calling Sinai a failure? how are you saying '
they would have received the Spirit if only they hadn't asked for a mediator' and then giving me examples of people -- who heard God through Moses -- upon whom the Spirit was? how are you citing the refutation of what you said and calling it proof you are correct?

you said, you should not '
match wits' against God.
so maybe you should not call His covenant a failure.
maybe you should read Ezekiel 20 again.
maybe you ought to fear Him.
 
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this does not say 'Sinai was a failure' like you said.
Sinai was a failure on many Israelites who did non enter in by receiving the Holy Spirit/Laws of God into their hearts. Instead they chose to "Stand afar off" Did they enter the promised land? NO! This is the failure to "enter into" communion with the Holy Spirit and receive the heart that desires righteousness on Gods terms, not ours. When I say I love the Law, it's not something I coached my mind into thinking or my heart into doing! It was a work of God upon my heart! I literally found myself enamored with the Torah and all scripture! It was amazing to me when I discovered how powerful this work was in my heart. It has never changed either, only matured and the more I study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit the more is revealed.

The failure to die on Israels part was the failure that led to Gods frustration with them in the wilderness, and inevitably their never entering into the promised land. This is a shadow of what we are seeing today.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare
1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:11 These things command and teach.
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.


1 Timothy 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.

1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment and some men they follow after.
1 Timothy 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.


1 Timothy 6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness from such withdraw thyself.



1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto whom no man hath seen, nor can see to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
You ask others to speak in their own words but then you post this wall of text? :eek::oops::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O
 

tanakh

Senior Member
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I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?
Paul got his Gospel directly from Christ.
During his ministry Jesus teachings were aimed primarily at Jews who were still under the law .There were no Christians until after
his death and resurrection. So telling ''us'' about the law makes no sense. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel not to anyone else.
Knowing the difference between right and wrong and morality in general can be found in many cultures and religious belief systems
both then and now. The Patriarchs didn't have the law of Moses to consult. Being made in Gods image refers to our inner selves not
outward appearance or letter. Truth is not in the letter but in the spirit.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God shall come
he answered them and said the Kingdom of God cometh not with observation
neither shall they say lo here or lo there for behold the Kingdom of God is
within you


Luke 17:20 - 21
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Greetings Y,


Too often I note a sense that there is a lack of soundness underpinning many of the arguments we hear. This seems to be drifting into darker and darker recesses of obscure thought.

2Ti 1:7 KJV For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The move of the Holy Spirit to force all things into absolute binary camps is moving at a fever pitch. Something is happening, It is quite possible that everyone is now required to stay in the camp they have chosen. No options for changing. Most people have little understanding of the degree of control God has on choice and how Grace held open options for men to "Choose Life" for a long time. As those who chose death begin to realize that the fence they were sitting on is gone and that they are on the dark side of an unscalable dividing wall they will grow desperate to justify their demise which will drive them insane.
You should listen to your arguments, And the way you answer questions....(Oh wait you never answer them)

And then see what we hear...
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Sinai was a failure on many Israelites who did non enter in by receiving the Holy Spirit/Laws of God into their hearts. Instead they chose to "Stand afar off" Did they enter the promised land? NO! This is the failure to "enter into" communion with the Holy Spirit and receive the heart that desires righteousness on Gods terms, not ours. When I say I love the Law, it's not something I coached my mind into thinking or my heart into doing! It was a work of God upon my heart! I literally found myself enamored with the Torah and all scripture! It was amazing to me when I discovered how powerful this work was in my heart. It has never changed either, only matured and the more I study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit the more is revealed.

The failure to die on Israels part was the failure that led to Gods frustration with them in the wilderness, and inevitably their never entering into the promised land. This is a shadow of what we are seeing today.
there's a certain book i think everyone involved in this thread should read 49 times before they post anything else.


It is not as though God’s word had failed.
(Romans 9:6)
Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!
Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.
(Romans 11:11)
God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them all.
(Romans 11:32)
actually, anticipating what warrantless & foolish accusation will come next, well, let me say then maybe two books:


But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners,
doesn't that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!
(Galatians 2:17)
 
May 1, 2019
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Aaron too heard God through Moses, the mediator.
Lev 8-9 for Aarons consecration Do you recognize that God wanted the entire nation of Israel to be a kingdom OF Kings and Priests? They ended up being a Kingdom with Kings and Priests.

Also, Moses was Israels "Civil" Head. Aaron was the Priestly Head. Two separate offices.
 
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Clever. but there is something that you are not seeing or hearing. Perhaps you are simply too mechanical to apprehend it. Let us pray and hope that we are not too much in the way of The Holy Spirits desire to "open our eyes"!
 
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View attachment 203096

i'm pretty sure you're making this up.
Write it down and in your studies you may find it. Even Better! Ask God to reveal it to you by His Holy Spirit. "pretty sure" is not enough. Again, I recognize your mechanical methodology, but you will not find much beyond the first level of interpretation of scripture that way.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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Write it down and in your studies you may find it. Even Better! Ask God to reveal it to you by His Holy Spirit. "pretty sure" is not enough. Again, I recognize your mechanical methodology, but you will not find much beyond the first level of interpretation of scripture that way.
Just bouncing off your post that I wonder if reading Acts 3 would clear anything up for those who say what Jesus said was overridden by Paul. (of which I do not say they contradict but some say, including the OP, they contradict each other)

Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets. 22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you. 23Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people.’d

24Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days. 25And you are sons of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers, when He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed.’e 26When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Write it down and in your studies you may find it. Even Better! Ask God to reveal it to you by His Holy Spirit. "pretty sure" is not enough. Again, I recognize your mechanical methodology, but you will not find much beyond the first level of interpretation of scripture that way.
i love answers like this. folks like you have all this " knowledge " from all the places, yet when asked to share said knowledge, you give these cryptic answers.

almost like you have a reason why you do not want to publicly state the source..
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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A question to those who know the law and prophets, (because it is obvious not everyone here does)….Name a prophet, if you can, that proclaimed the instructions/laws of YHVH are to be ignored. What prophet of YHVH proclaimed ignore God's Words?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Example of the point I was making, though not a good one but for the point of the misunderstanding. I have no problem with "a wall of text" I do it all the time.

Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 2Thessalonians 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
You ask others to speak in their own words but then you post this wall of text? :eek::oops::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O
 
May 1, 2019
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Just bouncing off your post that I wonder if reading Acts 3 would clear anything up for those who say what Jesus said was overridden by Paul. (of which I do not say they contradict but some say, including the OP, they contradict each other)

Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets. 22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you. 23Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people.’d

24Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have proclaimed these days. 25And you are sons of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers, when He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all the families of the earth will be blessed.’e 26When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Greetings Karraster,

Very potent end of discussion verses! Someone has to want to hear them first. They will simply state that Jesus handed the baton to Paul, because "Paul said so!" I personally do not like the lack of witnesses to "establish" everything.

I have mentioned it before, but since May when I first began reading posts and posting myself I am recognizing two options in the Bible as it is translated. Through very little twisting Re 2 Peter 3:15-17, men have found another way. This is not The Way. This is likely the "Great Deception" that is causing the "Apostasy". I struggle to clarify what God's will is to these who choose the "Broad Path", but I sense the allowance of such an easily "justifiable" position in mens minds whose hearts and minds are carnal. They resist the Holy Spirit and so indulge the flesh. Many of these seek to preserve self and sin over Gods will and so they refuse to "See".

There is a wisdom in the allowance of this twisted path that leaves it an outright firm choice between the two paths. The fact that they may chose the broad path with a perceived justification is the snare. They leave the rest of scripture in the past, irrelevant and insignificant. This, as Peter said was to their own destruction. :(