Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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Greetings Karraster,

Very potent end of discussion verses! Someone has to want to hear them first. They will simply state that Jesus handed the baton to Paul, because "Paul said so!" I personally do not like the lack of witnesses to "establish" everything.

I have mentioned it before, but since May when I first began reading posts and posting myself I am recognizing two options in the Bible as it is translated. Through very little twisting Re 2 Peter 3:15-17, men have found another way. This is not The Way. This is likely the "Great Deception" that is causing the "Apostasy". I struggle to clarify what God's will is to these who choose the "Broad Path", but I sense the allowance of such an easily "justifiable" position in mens minds whose hearts and minds are carnal. They resist the Holy Spirit and so indulge the flesh. Many of these seek to preserve self and sin over Gods will and so they refuse to "See".

There is a wisdom in the allowance of this twisted path that leaves it an outright firm choice between the two paths. The fact that they may chose the broad path with a perceived justification is the snare. They leave the rest of scripture in the past, irrelevant and insignificant. This, as Peter said was to their own destruction. :(
Well said. I walked the broad path many years, knowing all the while there was something missing big time. It's easy to sit back in church and be spoon fed, being brainwashed into thinking "Jesus obeyed the commandments so we don't have to, why else would He have had to die?" Even now I see how clever is that lie. It works so well too, because it means we don't have to give up anything, we can continue our lives just as before. I understand that some have an immediate change in their lives, but this wasn't the case for me, regrettably. I have had a lot of chastening, painful.

It's a counterfeit life, calling yourself a believer and continuing to willfully sin. The adversary has convinced the masses that feelings are the proof of being a child of the Most High. Not so! Obedience is proof, good fruit is proof.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
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Judaism is a codification of the traditions of the pharisees that made the commands of Yah of none effect.

You haven't read me promoting Judaism from any of my post on here in 5 years. And you never will.

True Christianity, the faith once delivered to the saints, is obedience to the law of Yah and having the faith of Christ. Both elements, not just one.

And both are mentioned in the last book of scripture that the saints must patiently endure to keep until our king returns.
Good post brother. I would venture to say, unless one do a little research into the regulations of Judaism, they have not one iota of a clue the significance of Yeshuah's miracles. Each and every one was a direct violation of the Pharisees law. But unless you do a bit of digging, it flies right over the old nogin. :)
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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Greetings Karraster,

Very potent end of discussion verses! Someone has to want to hear them first. They will simply state that Jesus handed the baton to Paul, because "Paul said so!" I personally do not like the lack of witnesses to "establish" everything.

I have mentioned it before, but since May when I first began reading posts and posting myself I am recognizing two options in the Bible as it is translated. Through very little twisting Re 2 Peter 3:15-17, men have found another way. This is not The Way. This is likely the "Great Deception" that is causing the "Apostasy". I struggle to clarify what God's will is to these who choose the "Broad Path", but I sense the allowance of such an easily "justifiable" position in mens minds whose hearts and minds are carnal. They resist the Holy Spirit and so indulge the flesh. Many of these seek to preserve self and sin over Gods will and so they refuse to "See".

There is a wisdom in the allowance of this twisted path that leaves it an outright firm choice between the two paths. The fact that they may chose the broad path with a perceived justification is the snare. They leave the rest of scripture in the past, irrelevant and insignificant. This, as Peter said was to their own destruction. :(
It isn't Paul who created the heavens and the earth and is our Lord and Saviour and whos death defeated death and set us free and justified us and whos blood washes us clean and who will be our Judge amongst the million other things He is and does. I can't believe one would have the guts to make a comparison. I believe the only problem with the scripture is the humans reading and interpreting it. The word of God is perfect as written by God. Perfect. The is not one conflict. Not one. Standing in front of God is going to be a right humbling experience.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,254
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It isn't Paul who created the heavens and the earth and is our Lord and Saviour and whos death defeated death and set us free and justified us and whos blood washes us clean and who will be our Judge amongst the million other things He is and does. I can't believe one would have the guts to make a comparison. I believe the only problem with the scripture is the humans reading and interpreting it. The word of God is perfect as written by God. Perfect. The is not one conflict. Not one. Standing in front of God is going to be a right humbling experience.
so, now you are on to your next judeaizer ( wrong ) point that Paul's writings are not to be considered authoritative Scripture.

so, just more judeaizer propaganda . nothing new.

oh, and just for the record, the Law is not divided into parts. you can believe this lie all you want, it is not true.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
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[QUOTE="DeighAnn, post:
Please, if you would just use your own sentences. I only ask because it really sets a bad precedent when we take a single verse here and a single verse there and string them together to make our own thought. When doing that any of us can make the Word of God say virtually any thing WE want and the unlearned can not tell the difference. Not that I don't understand, but the same thing goes here again. We can not in any sort of reality, yoke someone to something that doesn't exist.




Magenta post
You ask others to speak in their own words but then you post this wall of text? :eek::oops::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:o_O





.




My post
Example of the point I was making, though not a good one but for the point of the misunderstanding. I have no problem with "a wall of text" I do it all the time.

Matthew 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 2Thessalonians 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread

My terrible explanation modified It was about 1 verse followed by 1 verse followed by 1 verse ONLY. I apologize for not stating that better and doing a better example.
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
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I believe the only problem with the scripture is the humans reading and interpreting it. The word of God is perfect as written by God. Perfect. The is not one conflict. Not one. Standing in front of God is going to be a right humbling experience.
DeighAnn I think you are a very good communicator. It's just that some people are not carefully reading what you are saying. As in this post (below) responding to you, clearly misrepresenting what you said. No, it's not you who can't communicate, you spoke clearly :)
so, now you are on to your next judeaizer ( wrong ) point that Paul's writings are not to be considered authoritative Scripture.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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so, now you are on to your next judeaizer ( wrong ) point that Paul's writings are not to be considered authoritative Scripture.

It is just so boring. I get it we don't agree. You do not need to call me names. I thought you were Spirit filled, Spirit lead. Does the spirit ever say "Stop" this is not Christ like?

Here is some scripture for you. Maybe it will help.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.



2Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.


2Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


2Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.



2Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
2Timothy 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.


2Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:


Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;


Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Titus 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.



Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
Titus 2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.


Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
759
113
DeighAnn I think you are a very good communicator. It's just that some people are not carefully reading what you are saying. As in this post (below) responding to you, clearly misrepresenting what you said. No, it's not you who can't communicate, you spoke clearly :)
Thank you so much. It is very nice to hear. Try to keep my eye on the Lord but definitely feel pulled down to the ground a lot.

I don't think "sin lieth at the door" is getting through. I wonder how many people come here and were looking to get saved and reading some of the posts walk away thinking "I'll have nothing to do with that". It doesn't feel like I am speaking to ???? who I was expecting to be speaking to when I first came here. Eye opening experience. I look at the "members" and then the guests and now I know why so many just watch. If you don't have the "favored" belief, you best be suited up with the full gospel armor.:):):)
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
485
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Thank you so much. It is very nice to hear. Try to keep my eye on the Lord but definitely feel pulled down to the ground a lot.

I don't think "sin lieth at the door" is getting through. I wonder how many people come here and were looking to get saved and reading some of the posts walk away thinking "I'll have nothing to do with that". It doesn't feel like I am speaking to ???? who I was expecting to be speaking to when I first came here. Eye opening experience. I look at the "members" and then the guests and now I know why so many just watch. If you don't have the "favored" belief, you best be suited up with the full gospel armor.:):):)
Wanted to tell you, I applaud you for taking care of your Mom. I know it's not easy, I've been there too. You need all the uplifting you can get! The caregiver is so busy watching over others, they often neglect themselves, so please take care of yourself too. Hope I didn't get too personal, I know you didn't mention it to draw attention necessarily, as you were making a point about the commandments. Just had to say that, Good LORD knows how much I miss my Mom every day, and Dad too they were wonderful, a blessing.

Earlier on, someone said he was checking in to see if anyone was extolling Christ? Isn't that amazing? We are saying over and over, obey our LORD. Walk as He walked. And someone wonders if we are extolling Messiah. Mind blown.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
There was another account where the family of Aaron received the Spirit of God and were consecrated to the service of the Tabernacle. You can nit pick all you wish, and I sense you are or you can see the broader picture that the other 99.999% of Israel did not acquiesce to dying to self and receiving the Holy Spirit of the Law!

Perhaps you are too intellectual for your own good and you have shut out any movement of the Holy Spirit and are requiring Logic to dominate your thought processes

.
Rom 11:34 KJV For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?


If you try to acquire a knowledge of God solely using your intellect you will be undone! His thinking is not our thinking, If our IQ are 160-190, His is 200,000! God give us His Holy Spirit to communicate His ways and will to us. If you think you would like to have a go at matching wits with the Creator of all things you will be reduced to nothing. But He does wish to communicate His truths to us. However the Bible is Spirit, Not letters. To read without the Holy Spirit is a waste of time.
Forgive me for entering into your discussion with posthuman however I wanted to ask you, when you refer to the holy spirit of the law, are these verses the one's you are referring to.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
2 Corinthians 3:1-18
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, ...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,254
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I do not need your help, I have read the Bible all the way through 20 or so time, read it all year, usually takes about a year.


I know what it says, It does NOT say what you are the other judeaizers are attempting to make it say.

I know what you are saying, you are just simply wrong. I am not going to keep pointing out Scripture that easily refutes what you say, you just ignore them , and keep repeating the same debunked talking talking points.

I am still waiting on your " list " you were going to make about me, interested to see it.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,997
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GOD FORBID YOU MAKE VOID THE LAW. AND APPARENTLY GOD IS FORBIDDING YOU FROM SEEING AND HEARING ME AND ME YOU. PROBABLY BECAUSE OF ALL THE NAME CALLING YOU DO. I DIDN'T LIKE THE MEAN KIDS WHEN I WAS LITTLE MYSELF. USUALLY WHEN YOU TAKE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND SAVIOUR AS THE RULER OF YOUR LIFE, THE FIRST THING A CHRISTAN DOES IS STOP TRYING TO APPEAR LIKE A REGULAR BULLY CALLING NAMES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AN OVER
I can't really change the facts by being sensitive to everyones feelings.

If it causes such anguish to be called a legalist and/or judaizer then why not learn from this and stop doing it?

The truth is the truth and if people get their feelings hurt by me pointing out that they mock Christianity and the Lord Jesus Christ then that's going to happen.

Like I said before, if someone called me a legalist or judaizer and I really wasn't it probably wouldn't make me upset. So maybe that's something to look into as well. Why be upset over some dummy on the internet calling you something that you really aren't?

I have to admit that I get annoyed by some of your accusations as well. So there is that....
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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The problem we have today is the same as that day at Mt Sinai. Many have not received the Holy Spirit. So they cannot find a love for the Law. It is not written upon their hearts to love the Law.
I don't think a person can really have love for the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.

You know, the 10 commandments, the law.

But we CAN have love for the REAL LAW that is written on our hearts. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that has freed us from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death obviously being the law that points out sin and is where the Ministration of Death comes from, the 10 commandments written on stone.

Romans 7:7-10
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


There is only one reason that I can see for legalists and judaizers to insist that it is the law of sin and death that is written on their hearts. There is only one reason that I can see for legalists and judaizers to insist that it is the 10 commandments that are written on their hearts.

They just don't know any better. They haven't had the REAL LAW written on their hearts yet. They have an intellectual understanding of who Christ is but haven't received rest or revelation in the Knowledge of Christ.


2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Doesn't it worry you, just a little bit, that you can't see what is obviously set before you? That you believe something that is obviously not true?

How could we possibly EVER be freed from a law that was written on our hearts and in our minds??? You must know that it would be impossible.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Yahshua said:


Are we to stop the rebellion and trespass now that we're no longer his enemy? Or are we allowed to continue in it?
who in the world says that other than my false accuser?
Doesn't this original question show a general misunderstanding of Christianity?

We are no longer Gods Enemy because the Holy Spirit through Christ has stopped our rebellion and trespass.

The rebellion and trespass being NOT Having faith in Christ to begin with. The rebellion and trespass of God being a rejection of His Grace.

Too bad we don't know this before hand. But we only see it after the fact. After we come to Christ is when we begin to understand.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Didn't the law giver set a wonderful example!

And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
(Num 31:9-18)
 
May 1, 2019
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Forgive me for entering into your discussion with posthuman however I wanted to ask you, when you refer to the holy spirit of the law, are these verses the one's you are referring to.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
2 Corinthians 3:1-18
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, ...

Not at all, please, I am new to this whole "Forum" thing but I consider others welcome at all times.

There is a saying in the world "Spirit of the Law" which is essentially defined as the aim and purpose of the law when it was written.

In reading the OT account of the giving of the Law on Mt. Sinai particularly when the people became frightened;

Exo 20:18-21 KJV And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (19) And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. (20) And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (21) And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

As we see today with our own "walks" it is Gods express intent to communicate through His Holy Spirit, and His Scripture which is also Spirit breathed, but most Important is our personal communication with His Holy Spirit who "leads us into all truth" Jn 16:13.

Note the terms, conditions and preparation of Israel 3 days prior to Mt Sinai;

Exo 19:5-11 KJV Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. (8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. (9) And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD. (10) And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, (11) And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

So the terms were set, they, Israel, were to obey His "voice". Note: the "voice" of God. How do we hear Gods voice?;

Joh 4:24 KJV God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Joh 15:26 KJV But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 17:17 KJV Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I do not wish to force my thinking of this on anyone, but as I read and see, and hear the OT and NT accounts of Gods dealings with men I recognize a continuity, sameness with God in His desire that all those He calls become "priests".

In modern terms and ancient terms a priest is a mediator of sorts. Just as the father in Godly homes was/is the Priest or head spiritually. These priests were and are to "hear the voice of God" in order to serve those they are given charge for. Everything was contingent on or constrained to "hearing His voice". So in Israels encounter on Mt Sinai they recognized that the "voice of God" His Holy Spirit would literally kill them, but not their bodies, their carnal man! As Moses put it;

Exo 20:20 KJV And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
Exo 20:20 NIV Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."

Just as an aside, I wonder sometimes if this verse is where the term 20/20 comes from originally!?

But back to your question, and I don't know if you saw my correlation between the OT Passover to Mt Sinai which was 50 days Mt Sinai was the "Giving of the Law" but more importantly it was supposed to be the "hearing of His Voice", while the NT version was identical in that between Yahshua's crucifixion and Pentecost there was 50 days. Pentecost was the receiving of the Holy Spirit of God who would lead us into all truth! His word is Truth! As I continue with my walk more "links" or relationships are made clearer to me and many times these links are very detailed. The Holy Spirit continues to clarify and illuminate His words. When I read now I read with an attentive ear as if I am asking with every letter my eyes view, what it there in this? There is always more, please show me? There truly is "always more" there that the human eye can see, but the Spirit leads us. Another aspect of my statement that the Holy Spirit is The Law, besides the correlation I just made is that the words of God are "instructions" Torah means in many respects "teachings"

Neh 9:20 KJV Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Luk 12:12 KJV For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

1Jn 2:27 KJV But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


There is a "sameness" and consistency that emerges over time. What was once taught to me as a New God of the New Testament in a manner of speaking, is the same God doing the same thing for His people. The breath of life that Adam lost Gen 2:7 is what Our Heavenly Father has been restoring to us, or us to all along. Following all of the "metaphysical", spiritual laws He established that perhaps we just do not understand, He has been working at to "redeem us" Just as His Holy Spirit is the conduit or communicator between Him and us, Jesus proclaimed that our communication and fellowship with Him and the Father were absolutely linked and constrained to Knowing and Keeping His commandments. Jn 14:21, and if The Holy Spirit .....on and on I go. Sorry if this was too much. :)

SG
 
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Didn't the law giver set a wonderful example!

And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
(Num 31:9-18)

Do you speak ill of Moses or the Law? You are treading close to Blaspheming the Holy Spirit! You should consider your words and heart!
 
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I don't think a person can really have love for the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.

Right you are, these things are spiritual, the carnal man cannot understand them;

Rom 7:14 KJV For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

1Co 2:14-15 KJV But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
 
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Sinai was a failure on many Israelites who did non enter in by receiving the Holy Spirit/Laws of God into their hearts. Instead they chose to "Stand afar off" Did they enter the promised land? NO! This is the failure to "enter into" communion with the Holy Spirit and receive the heart that desires righteousness on Gods terms, not ours. When I say I love the Law, it's not something I coached my mind into thinking or my heart into doing! It was a work of God upon my heart! I literally found myself enamored with the Torah and all scripture! It was amazing to me when I discovered how powerful this work was in my heart. It has never changed either, only matured and the more I study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit the more is revealed.

The failure to die on Israels part was the failure that led to Gods frustration with them in the wilderness, and inevitably their never entering into the promised land. This is a shadow of what we are seeing today.
They did not enter the promised land because they failed to trust God. When they got there, The people were scared because of “giants” in the land. And since the people did not trust God, they complained, just like they did from the moment they left Egypt. Always complaining, No water, No food. Left us here to die, oh that we were back in egypt etc etc etc..its why they build idols.. and did all kinds of sin.

When the law was given, and they were required to confirm they would obey every word. the people said AMEN. They received the law. that was not the issue, the issue was They NEVER trusted God, since they never trusted God, they never obeyed.


Its a faith issue, not a DO Issue..
 
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I don't think a person can really have love for the Ministration of Death and Condemnation.

You know, the 10 commandments, the law.

But we CAN have love for the REAL LAW that is written on our hearts. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that has freed us from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death obviously being the law that points out sin and is where the Ministration of Death comes from, the 10 commandments written on stone.

Romans 7:7-10
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


There is only one reason that I can see for legalists and judaizers to insist that it is the law of sin and death that is written on their hearts. There is only one reason that I can see for legalists and judaizers to insist that it is the 10 commandments that are written on their hearts.

They just don't know any better. They haven't had the REAL LAW written on their hearts yet. They have an intellectual understanding of who Christ is but haven't received rest or revelation in the Knowledge of Christ.


2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Doesn't it worry you, just a little bit, that you can't see what is obviously set before you? That you believe something that is obviously not true?

How could we possibly EVER be freed from a law that was written on our hearts and in our minds??? You must know that it would be impossible.

I recognize that you do not understand me, you even apply accusations that do not pertain to me. That will be on you. You will find that was/is unwise. You have God to contend with.

I wrote many words then I just backspaced them out. Why? You do not want to hear them. That simple. Seems you are locked in. Your gospel promises everything but requires nothing, yours bypasses the placing of the old man on the cross (the lawbreaker)/ Scorns denial of the flesh, Calls purity legalism, No thanks, I prefer Christianity, being Christlike. He was nothing like that, He was the opposite!