Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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So PH, another tactic. You are clever.
Is every man learning here?
Is every man 100% correct? Are you here to learn of teach or both?
Is every man trying to divide men?;
Jas 4:11-12 NIV Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. (12) There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
I pat Y on the back as a brother who demonstrates the Spirit of Grace, rather than division and hostility.
I wish you could have the kind of rest that Y does. I and others have and do try to illuminate that way for you.
SG
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Hi GB.
Are covenants laws? Or are they agreements/promises that may or may not include laws?
For example, the covenant with Abraham, and the covenant with David.
My point here is to show a distinction between the covenant made at Mt. Sinai and the laws given at the mount.
The covenant was "if israel did all that Yah said to do they would be a treasured kingdom of priests".
The covenant was agreed to in Exodus 19 before any law was given.
Then after it was agreed to, the commandments - the initial rules they were to follow - were spoken and the covenant was ratified by blood.
After that, Moses went up to get the tablets of testimony but the people broke the covenant while he was gone...how? By not following the initial rules they were given (no idolatry, adultery, etc).
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Again, notice that the covenant was established before any rule/law was given. So at any point, Yah can give them any new rules to follow because the rules themselves aren't the covenant.
It's also true that Yah alone can take away any rules/laws. Because the covenant is "obey whatever Yah commands of you; do whatever He says".
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Moses comes back down and Yah is ready to destroy everyone for violating the blood covenant, but Moses interceded for the people...then we read Moses getting from Yah the new rules for the ministration of blood/death that the people MUST now obey because of their violation of the covenant so that Yah will not rightfully kill them.
This "law was added because of (their) transgression" (Galatians 3). Next, the levites are given the leadership role in this ministration since they sided with Yah.
If the covenant is the law, then once ratified by blood Yah legally couldn't have added laws afterwards because a covenant is unchangeable.
No, the covenant is to "do whatever Yah says to do", and He can add to or take away from what He wants done at any given time as necessary. However, the people could not add or subtract from those rules because they are in the submissive role of the relationship.
....
After Christ performed the work of correcting Israel's violation, the law for ministration of blood/death, as well as the Levitical priesthood leading in that ministration, were obsolete (Hebrews). So these rules were removed by The King and the law was changed in that aspect.
Are covenants laws? Or are they agreements/promises that may or may not include laws?
For example, the covenant with Abraham, and the covenant with David.
My point here is to show a distinction between the covenant made at Mt. Sinai and the laws given at the mount.
The covenant was "if israel did all that Yah said to do they would be a treasured kingdom of priests".
The covenant was agreed to in Exodus 19 before any law was given.
Then after it was agreed to, the commandments - the initial rules they were to follow - were spoken and the covenant was ratified by blood.
After that, Moses went up to get the tablets of testimony but the people broke the covenant while he was gone...how? By not following the initial rules they were given (no idolatry, adultery, etc).
----
Again, notice that the covenant was established before any rule/law was given. So at any point, Yah can give them any new rules to follow because the rules themselves aren't the covenant.
It's also true that Yah alone can take away any rules/laws. Because the covenant is "obey whatever Yah commands of you; do whatever He says".
----
Moses comes back down and Yah is ready to destroy everyone for violating the blood covenant, but Moses interceded for the people...then we read Moses getting from Yah the new rules for the ministration of blood/death that the people MUST now obey because of their violation of the covenant so that Yah will not rightfully kill them.
This "law was added because of (their) transgression" (Galatians 3). Next, the levites are given the leadership role in this ministration since they sided with Yah.
If the covenant is the law, then once ratified by blood Yah legally couldn't have added laws afterwards because a covenant is unchangeable.
No, the covenant is to "do whatever Yah says to do", and He can add to or take away from what He wants done at any given time as necessary. However, the people could not add or subtract from those rules because they are in the submissive role of the relationship.
....
After Christ performed the work of correcting Israel's violation, the law for ministration of blood/death, as well as the Levitical priesthood leading in that ministration, were obsolete (Hebrews). So these rules were removed by The King and the law was changed in that aspect.
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Judges 21
15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the Lord had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.
17 And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.
Look at the "irony" of God, eh? Despite the error of Israel.
That the whole tribe of Benjamin would "peter out", from lack of offspring!
Yet, from this same tribe? The "gospel to the gentiles" was delivered?
Or? Is this the traditional "pigeon holing" the "Perfect Law of Love" believers are so want in their adamancy of placing anyone, or everyone, that even "hints" of O.T. teaching, as Hebrew Rooted Paul Haters?!
Hmmm! Interesting! Wouldn't ya say?
(Guess you seen where gb9 got me just a little "hot under the collar!" or was it ps?)
Where they should be thanking Israel FOR Paul!
Or, does this speak of something more rebellious, where Israel's traditions couldn't fathom ONLY 11 tribes?
Which begs the question? "Who is really seeing with "eyes of flesh" only?
Irregardless! It rather is more indicative of how "traditions of men, MAKE void, the Word of God!"
15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the Lord had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.
17 And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.
Look at the "irony" of God, eh? Despite the error of Israel.
That the whole tribe of Benjamin would "peter out", from lack of offspring!
Yet, from this same tribe? The "gospel to the gentiles" was delivered?
Or? Is this the traditional "pigeon holing" the "Perfect Law of Love" believers are so want in their adamancy of placing anyone, or everyone, that even "hints" of O.T. teaching, as Hebrew Rooted Paul Haters?!
Hmmm! Interesting! Wouldn't ya say?
(Guess you seen where gb9 got me just a little "hot under the collar!" or was it ps?)
Where they should be thanking Israel FOR Paul!
Or, does this speak of something more rebellious, where Israel's traditions couldn't fathom ONLY 11 tribes?
Which begs the question? "Who is really seeing with "eyes of flesh" only?
Irregardless! It rather is more indicative of how "traditions of men, MAKE void, the Word of God!"
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If you can PH, try not to be so hostile!
Your nuclear button is bound to be getting worn out!
Your nuclear button is bound to be getting worn out!
"good job!"?
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E
If you can PH, try not to be so hostile!
Your nuclear button is bound to be getting worn out!
Your nuclear button is bound to be getting worn out!
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Never heard of Gish galloping before. I think PH was on a debate team.
Gish Galloping...huh!?
Yeah, the Berean way is a safer bet.
Just like there's "No replacement for Displacement" in the motor world,
There's "No replacement for Eye placement on the Word itself!"
If you find that goofy I can't blame it on anyone else.I can look over my thoughts and find myself putting thoughts out there that are for consideration only, but with a heavy leaning on confirmed. I appreciate having calmer heads and wiser minds than mine to get to the bottom of some of what I am beginning to learn. It's an amazing thing how the Holy Spirit begins to connect the dots and sometimes the revelations come at you so fast you cannot contain them all. Just like when Yahshua said;
Joh 16:12-14 NIV "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (14) He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
It's a guided process! And such a blessed one at that.
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Never heard of Gish galloping before. I think PH was on a debate team.
Gish Galloping...huh!?
Yeah, the Berean way is a safer bet.
Just like there's "No replacement for Displacement" in the motor world,
There's "No replacement for Eye placement on the Word itself!" If you find that goofy I can't blame it on anyone else.
I can look over my thoughts and find myself putting thoughts out there that are for consideration only, but with a heavy leaning on confirmed. I appreciate having calmer heads and wiser minds than mine to get to the bottom of some of what I am beginning to learn. It's an amazing thing how the Holy Spirit begins to connect the dots and sometimes the revelations come at you so fast you cannot contain them all. Just like when Yahshua said;
Joh 16:12-14 NIV "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (14) He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
It's a guided process! And such a blessed one at that.
Gish Galloping...huh!?
Yeah, the Berean way is a safer bet.
Just like there's "No replacement for Displacement" in the motor world,
There's "No replacement for Eye placement on the Word itself!"
If you find that goofy I can't blame it on anyone else.I can look over my thoughts and find myself putting thoughts out there that are for consideration only, but with a heavy leaning on confirmed. I appreciate having calmer heads and wiser minds than mine to get to the bottom of some of what I am beginning to learn. It's an amazing thing how the Holy Spirit begins to connect the dots and sometimes the revelations come at you so fast you cannot contain them all. Just like when Yahshua said;
Joh 16:12-14 NIV "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (14) He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
It's a guided process! And such a blessed one at that.
Yeah I'm always absorbing new info from others whether here or elsewhere (like NayborBear's nugget about the tribe of Benjamin for instance).
Even Post's link regarding Christ's commands last week.
I believe the body was designed where not everyone has every piece, requiring us to come together to share what was given to us (assuming those things are confirmed by scripture), with the goal of uniting the body into "one new man".
Indeed it's a blessing.
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The Ten Commandments Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. It was not with our fathers that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever! “Go, tell them to return to their tents. But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.” So be careful to do what the Lord your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. Walk in all the way that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess. Deuteronomy 5:1-6,29-33
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. Romans 13:1-5
Rejecting God's laws and commandments is rejection of His words.
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:48-50
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
Walk in Love.
Love is the fulfilment of the law.
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:10
Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. Romans 13:1-5
Rejecting God's laws and commandments is rejection of His words.
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:48-50
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25
Walk in Love.
Love is the fulfilment of the law.
So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:10
Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
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If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
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