Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

Babylonian captivity, not Egyptian.


That's a huge assumption, with no evidence to support it, so I'm going to discard it as irrelevant. The Bible says "gentiles", I'm going with "gentiles"; i.e. non-Israel.



Are the comments in red yours or someone else's?


Jesus didn't come to abolish, but to fulfill. The problem with most Judaizers is that although they understand what "abolish" means, their comprehension stops there. None that I have encountered understands what "fulfill" means.

If the mortgage is fulfilled, do you still make payments? If the obligation is fulfilled, is anything else left undone? Did Jesus say that He fulfilled part of the Law but not the rest?

If Jesus fulfilled the Law, why do Judaizers claim that Christians need to obey it? "Here; even though Jesus paid the mortgage in full, you need to keep making payments on it. You need to follow this and that and do and don't do so that you demonstrate appropriately your love for and submission to God." What they don't add is "because clearly, whatever Jesus did wasn't sufficient."

The old covenant was fulfilled at the cross; the new covenant was initiated. No more does our relationship with God depend on our adherence to the Law; now it depends fully on our faith in the Person and finished work of Jesus Christ.

A tip for you, as you say you're confused: regarding Scripture, when there is a passage you find confusing, look for another passage on the same subject that is clear, and interpret what is unclear in light of what is clear. Acts 15 and Galatians 2-3 are clear; gentiles are not subject to the Law. We are grafted in by faith, not by obedience.

I stand corrected. Does it matter if they are mine or not? What part did Jesus fulfill? The parts that we do not pay mortgage on anymore. BLood sacrifices. ALL of them. No more killing animals and all the statutes and ordinances that go along with that. We don't go through a priest to talk to God but the BLood of Christ. Mortgage Paid in full. Don't go near. Don't ever do again. Done. Paid in full. ABOLISHED. Circumcision=Blood, DONT do it for GOD. DOne Abolished. JESUS WAS CLEARLY THE PERFECT WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH LAMB OF GOD. LAMB OF GOD WHO PAID THE PRICE FOR SIN so that we "SINNERS" can come into God through His Blood.

So do you think you could answer the questions and not go off in another direction this time please?

 

[Karraster]

Here is the writer of Romans saying it's a carnal mind that will not obey the Creator's laws/instructions.

Romans 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: 7because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: 8and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Somehow or other the majority has been brainwashed into thinking scripture says the opposite of what it says. It clearly says the law is good and if you are in Christ you will want to obey Father's laws. A change in priesthood/sacrifices of course, and that was provisioned/foretold in scripture before the change was made.

 

[DeighAnn]

Here's another great thing that we can learn from the law that I remember reading many years ago

Exodus 20: 24. You shall make an altar of earth for me, and shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your cattle. In every place where I record my name I will come to you and I will bless you.


God doesn't need fancy stuff, he wants an altar made out of dirt. Think how many churches today are in trouble because of the financial burden of their building. But God doesn't need stained glass or an expensive sound system! Just basic everyday stuff is just fine!

EVEN Less than that!!! Have you ever taken them and found a 2nd witness in the NT for them?
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Dan_473]

It is the same question with the same answer. Render unto ceasar and render unto God. Follow the law of the land UNLESS it has anything to do with the worshipping of the one and only God. Like if I was in the military and I was in combat and fighting for my country and killing people. God says do not kill, yet doing what I am doing would seem to go against Gods law but at the same time is doesn't. So I would think that you better know what God wants. You know there is also that problem of "if it convicts you" it is sin to you. I think that is where knowing ALL the Word is important. The wisdom you receive from God allows you to do it His way. And doing it His way, would never be breaking His Law. So tell me, What would you do?

I would not take the oath, thus breaking the law of Moses. I would figure that someone greater than Moses is here.

Jesus had the authority of binding and loosing, and he gave that authority to Peter. And by extension, to Christians.

So while I look to the law for wisdom, I do not see myself as required to perform the physical requirements of that particular rule.

 

[LW97]

All of the Ten Commandments were repeated in the New Covenant except for the 4th one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All of the Ten Commandments were repeated in the New Covenant except for the 4th one.

Yep. And you better obey every one of them and never break one. As James said, if you break even the lest of them, you are guilty of all..

 

[LW97]

Yep. And you better obey every one of them and never break one. As James said, if you break even the lest of them, you are guilty of all..

Correct, the Law of Christ, not the 613 OT commandments

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Correct, the Law of Christ, not the 613 OT commandments

No. That is the law of God, If anyone broke one of the ten, they were under a curse. And that curse was death

The law of Christ is love God and your neighbor as yourself. (Your neighbor included your enemy)

Do this and you will not break any of the commands.

 

[LW97]

No. That is the law of God, If anyone broke one of the ten, they were under a curse. And that curse was death

The law of Christ is love God and your neighbor as yourself. (Your neighbor included your enemy)

Do this and you will not break any of the commands.

So what Jesus commanded in the four Gospels is not enough?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So what Jesus commanded in the four Gospels is not enough?

Not enough? Not sure what you mean

 

[LW97]

Not enough? Not sure what you mean

I mean, there were moral laws AND ceremonical laws in the OT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I mean, there were moral laws AND ceremonical laws in the OT

There are laws all over the place.

But as scripture says we are not under law but grace. Because the law can not help us, all it can do is condemn us, because no one alive can live according to the law as required (perfection)

Jesus said there are two laws in which ALL THE LAW and ALL THE PROPHETS are fulfilled. Its called the law of Love, or the law of Christ.

 

[Dino246]

I mean, there were moral laws AND ceremonical laws in the OT

That's true, but there isn't a single word of Scripture that distinguishes them.

 

[DeighAnn]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Hebrews 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

 

[PS]

No. That is the law of God, If anyone broke one of the ten, they were under a curse. And that curse was death

The law of Christ is love God and your neighbor as yourself. (Your neighbor included your enemy)

Do this and you will not break any of the commands.

It is true that the law of love is the greatest of the commandments, but Jesus did go on to detail others. Perhaps he should have added one about humility and not having an argumentative spirit?

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

 

[mailmandan]

We are required to obey Christ and his law. Read Christ’s LAST instructions to his apostles just before he left the earth—we call this the “Great Commission”— Mark 16:16- “And he said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that Believes and us baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned...

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Also recorded in Matthew 28:18,19-“...Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

We are to obey “the gospel” of Christ. Whatever is in his gospel, including Belief and Baptism which he particularly specifies.

Baptism is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17) The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. *Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our report?

 

[DeighAnn]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In Matthew 28:19-20, we have here a command of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them. However, it does not say here that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Baptism is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17) The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. *Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our report?

AND if baptism were wouldn't that make salvation of "works"?

 

[Dan_473]

It is true that the law of love is the greatest of the commandments, but Jesus did go on to detail others. Perhaps he should have added one about humility and not having an argumentative spirit?

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

I like to keep in mind the commandment from Luke 22:36, if we don't have a sword go buy one!

 

[PS]

I like to keep in mind the commandment from Luke 22:36, if we don't have a sword go buy one!

That is not for us though.

Luk 22:36-38
(36) "But now," Jesus said, "whoever has a purse or a bag must take it; and whoever does not have a sword must sell his coat and buy one.
(37) For I tell you that the scripture which says, 'He shared the fate of criminals,' must come true about me, because what was written about me is coming true."
(38) The disciples said, "Look! Here are two swords, Lord!" "That is enough!" he replied.

 

[DeighAnn]

That is not for us though.

Luk 22:36-38
(36) "But now," Jesus said, "whoever has a purse or a bag must take it; and whoever does not have a sword must sell his coat and buy one.
(37) For I tell you that the scripture which says, 'He shared the fate of criminals,' must come true about me, because what was written about me is coming true."
(38) The disciples said, "Look! Here are two swords, Lord!" "That is enough!" he replied.

Does it feel like the meaning may have been lost without adding in a couple more verses?

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luke 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luke 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. (Enough it is)

It seems when a bunch of "punctuations" along side word arranging, the meaning may also be changed. When I read 37
THIS, that is written "AND HE WAS RECKONED AMONG THE TRANSGRESSORS"...this must be accomplished.

Do you think, is this what was meant?