Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Lightskin]

Faith provides a promise of salvation. You don`t recieve it until get the Holy Spirit. The people who lived before the cross had a faith based promise of future redemption.


Ephesions 1

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

“Faith based promise of future redemption”
I like that. Thanks. 😎

 

[RickStudies]

It was still faith, and it was then and is still today the means of salvation

I never said otherwise.

 

[wokinluv]

Amen.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

And He also said;

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

And to those who are lawless and evildoers he said;

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:23

BECAUSE...

They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

THEREFORE...

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and Walk in Love.

God is good and His LOVE endures forever. Amen

No Jesus, no salvation.

 

[posthuman]

Thank you. The law has been fulfilled.

He has loved

 

[posthuman]

I`m not aware of any evidence anyone understood new birth except Jesus before then.

in the conversation with "the teacher of Israel" where He reveals the mystery of Proverbs 30 and introduces to him the topic of being born from above, He literally says, "we speak of what we know and have seen"

"we"

who is "we" ?

 

[Grandpa]

The Bible calls the Law holy, righteous and good. The Bible also calls it a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

It also says this: 2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So why then are so many Christians hostile to God`s Law? I esteem this to be the work of Satan in an unholy era in this country and I believe it has been very damaging to Christians.

Christians aren't hostile to Gods Law. Christians can't be hostile to Gods Law.

Christians just want it to be understood that we aren't under the 10 commandments/Moses Law.

Unfortunately, there are way too many people who don't understand that there is a difference between Gods Law and Moses Law.

And I think that people who use the term Gods Law instead of the Mosaic Law or Moses Law purposely conflate this issue.

 

[posthuman]

Please take the time to read your verses.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It implies faith does not void the Law. It does not say faith establishes Law.

. . .

Romans 3:21 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:22 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:23-24 - implicitly concerning faith
Romans 3:25 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:26 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:27 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:28 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:29-30 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:31a - explicitly about faith

Romans 3:31b - entirely unrelated subject???

Romans 4:1-3 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:4-5 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:6-8 - implicitly concerning faith
Romans 4:9 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:10-11 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:12 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:13 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:14 - explicitly about faith

. . .

 

[posthuman]

My thought has always been that the we refers to Jesus and God the Father dwelling inside of Jesus.

when did He ever speak of Himself in plural?

no one was born again until after pentecost.

then no one entered or even saw the kingdom of God before Pentecost/First-Fruits.

however:

Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you!
(Matthew 21:31)
​

if you look it up, you'll find that the verb 'are entering' in Greek is present indicative active. not future tense, as in, 'they will enter later' -- it's happening as He says it.

so, how are people entering the kingdom already if they have to be born again to do so, if no one has been born again yet at that time?
perhaps what is required to be born again is less than what was given at First-Fruits/Pentecost. a seed enters the ground long before it sprouts.

 

[RickStudies]

Christians aren't hostile to Gods Law. Christians can't be hostile to Gods Law.

Christians just want it to be understood that we aren't under the 10 commandments/Moses Law.

Unfortunately, there are way too many people who don't understand that there is a difference between Gods Law and Moses Law.

And I think that people who use the term Gods Law instead of the Mosaic Law or Moses Law purposely conflate this issue.

Best just to call it the Torah then. God dictated all of it and Moses wrote it. Moses was a great man I`m not ashamed of him.
The ten commandments and much of the Mosaic Law is repeated in the New Testament.

 

[Grandpa]

I see nothing about faith here, what. See is how to obey god, not that faith establishes the law.

Again, how does faith establish the law?

I thought his response shows he has no idea.

Like all the legalists before him who quote that same scripture...

 

[Grandpa]

Best just to call it the Torah then. God dictated all of it and Moses wrote it. Moses was a great man I`m not ashamed of him.
The ten commandments and much of the Mosaic Law is repeated in the New Testament.

Kind of a weird thing to say. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that before.

Are there people out there that are ashamed of Moses?

I suppose they could be ashamed that he hit the rock with a staff instead of talking to it like God told him. But I wonder if I would have done better if I was in his position. Probably not.

 

[posthuman]

I think nicodemus did.

why else would he have brought the spices to wrap Jesus with in graveclothes?

i don't know when Nicodemus understood, but i believe he did too. not in the part of the conversation John records, but i hardly imagine that's all that was said, and he certainly went home pondering over all that he had heard & seen.

 

[RickStudies]

when did He ever speak of Himself in plural?



then no one entered or even saw the kingdom of God before Pentecost/First-Fruits.

however:

Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you!​

(Matthew 21:31) ​

​

if you look it up, you'll find that the verb 'are entering' in Greek is present indicative active. not future tense, as in, 'they will enter later' -- it's happening as He says it.

so, how are people entering the kingdom already if they have to be born again to do so, if no one has been born again yet at that time?
perhaps what is required to be born again is less than what was given at First-Fruits/Pentecost. a seed enters the ground long before it sprouts.

Well friend, I`m not a real fast typer and just writing things off the top of my head, I don`t always put things in the best way or in as much detail as I would like.

Paul called the Holy Spirit an earnest, a down payment on our redemption at the first ressurrection. According to Paul it is the Holy Spirit that circumsizes the heart, creates the new nature and seals us, marks us, until the time. As I understand the gospel this is the new birth experience from which we rise a new creature in Jesus Christ.

In the case of forgiveness of sin. The Bible says that Jesus had to die for this to be possible. All sin past,present and future was paid for at the cross.

The people before the cross had to wait for Jesus to die to get their sin forgiven. They had a faith based promise of salvation based on doing various things God told them to do throughout the Bible. In the time of Jesus I don`t think it was any different.

as to your other question.

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

 

[RickStudies]

Kind of a weird thing to say. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that before.

Are there people out there that are ashamed of Moses?

I suppose they could be ashamed that he hit the rock with a staff instead of talking to it like God told him. But I wonder if I would have done better if I was in his position. Probably not.

I`ve known some Law hating religeous people in my time who acted like Moses did a carnal thing when wrote down all those Laws. Usually they didn`t realize that the ten commandments are part of Torah.

 

[posthuman]

The original followers of Jesus were Jewish Law keepers who would have known as much about new birth as Nicodemous did.

no one knew scripture in Israel like Nicodemus did. Jesus calls him "the" teacher of Israel. this is scribe numero uno.
yet Jesus says "we" speak about what we know when teaching Nicodemus, so the implication is that more than one both know and have seen what they are speaking about. if the disciples were taught by Him and 'knew' and 'saw' - how does Nicodemus compare?

Nicodemus is not dumb. he's brilliant, and Christ Himself sits down to personally tutor him in John 3. it was not, cannot have been unfruitful - and the fact that we see Nicodemus with a huge pile of spices ready to go with Joseph of Arimathea in John 19 tells us that Nicodemus understood what was to happen, and that the time was near. he believed, he understood, and he was ready. i think this is evidence that he saw the kingdom of God - that he entered it, and there he was doing the work of it.

 

[RickStudies]

. . .

Romans 3:21 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:22 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:23-24 - implicitly concerning faith
Romans 3:25 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:26 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:27 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:28 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:29-30 - explicitly about faith
Romans 3:31a - explicitly about faith

Romans 3:31b - entirely unrelated subject???

Romans 4:1-3 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:4-5 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:6-8 - implicitly concerning faith
Romans 4:9 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:10-11 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:12 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:13 - explicitly about faith
Romans 4:14 - explicitly about faith

. . .

I`m not sure what your point is?

 

[posthuman]

Faith provides a promise of salvation. You don`t recieve it until get the Holy Spirit.

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”​

Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”​

(Luke 19:8-10)​

​

oh look, a man having faith before Pentecost, and receiving salvation that very day _____________

 

[posthuman]

I`m not sure what your point is?

how can Romans 3:31 not be about faith when 20 verses before it and 20 verses after it and even the first half of verse 31 are so obviously about faith faith faith faith faith faith faith?

 

[RickStudies]

no one knew scripture in Israel like Nicodemus did. Jesus calls him "the" teacher of Israel. this is scribe numero uno.
yet Jesus says "we" speak about what we know when teaching Nicodemus, so the implication is that more than one both know and have seen what they are speaking about. if the disciples were taught by Him and 'knew' and 'saw' - how does Nicodemus compare?

Nicodemus is not dumb. he's brilliant, and Christ Himself sits down to personally tutor him in John 3. it was not, cannot have been unfruitful - and the fact that we see Nicodemus with a huge pile of spices ready to go with Joseph of Arimathea in John 19 tells us that Nicodemus understood what was to happen, and that the time was near. he believed, he understood, and he was ready. i think this is evidence that he saw the kingdom of God - that he entered it, and there he was doing the work of it.

Lots of people believed Jesus was Messiah. That doesn`t mean they had recieved the new birth or understood it.

 

[posthuman]

And to those who are lawless and evildoers he said;

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:23

this is actually, many people who do many great works in Christ's name.
many lawless evildoers doing many great works in His name, and boasting of the many great works they did in His name.
verse 22 goes with verse 23.